Button won 1st F1 GP Win

[BD]

All of a sudden, NSX replacement is going to be the Pace car for the up coming Japanese GP in October:biggrin:

About time Jenson, great job!!! Reminded me of Senna Prost race in 1993!!!

 

[Klayton]

We didn't just win the race because MSC, Raikkönen and Alonso dropped out.

I don't want to spread a bad mood but what does make you think he could've won the race without all those (for Button) happy fortuities? Räikkönen was unstoppable until he retired, same story for Alonso. I can't imagine how he could've won without the chaos of the rain and wet track. But that's racing business. Nevertheless he drove a fantastic race and deserved the win.

Oh and about those Schumel Schumi (that word doesn't exist in german by the way, never heard of that phrase too ) and Hughs cheating comments. Maybe he could add some facts for what he claims and posts and not only post his mental effluvia without any background what he's talking about.

 

[Hugh]

Oh and about those Schumel Schumi (that word doesn't exist in german by the way, never heard of that phrase too ) and Hughs cheating comments. Maybe he could add some facts for what he claims and posts and not only post his mental effluvia without any background what he's talking about.

Apparently you didn't see today's race or the incident in Monaco during qualifying.

In today's race, Schumacher cut a corner and refused to relinquish position to car following him as required by the rules.

As far as Monaco is concerned, here is an excerpt from the link quoted earlier in this thread which apparently you did not take the time to read.

"I read an interview with Race Steward Joaquin Verdegay and his opinion of the events at the Rascasse corner hold the most water. Verdegay had access to all of the telemetry and knew exactly what Schumacher was doing in the car. This is what he said:

"We don't know for sure if the entire maneuver was deliberate, but in that spot he had certainly not done anything like it throughout the weekend. Schumacher braked over 50% more heavily than on the other laps he did. He then performed some absolutely unnecessary and pathetic counter-steering, and that lasted five metres, until there was no more chances of going through the turn normally.

He lost control of his car while traveling at only 16km/h. That is something completely unjustifiable. And the engine only shut off because he wanted it to by losing enough time before hitting the clutch. And the excuse that he did not engage reverse because there was traffic doesn't make sense at all."

As Verdegay points out, Schumacher's attempts at navigating through the corner were indeed pathetic. Schumacher was going so slow that recovering from his apparent lock-up, would have been preposterously simple for a man of his talents. Watching Michael swing the steering wheel back and forth almost made me laugh, it just seemed ridiculous that he was doing it."

 

[Klayton]

Interesting, I saw the complete GP, cutting corners is pretty common while racing on a track, it's called hitting the apex. Alonso was the only driver that lapped Schumacher and he let him pass without any intricacies. There was no other car he had to 'relinquish' his position to. I don't know why you took the time to quote posts about a race some months ago.. you wrote he cheated at the hungarian GP '06.

 

[Hugh]

Interesting, I saw the complete GP, cutting corners is pretty common while racing on a track, it's called hitting the apex. Alonso was the only driver that lapped Schumacher and he let him pass without any intricacies. There was no other car he had to 'relinquish' his position to. Maybe you watched one of the side events? GP2 and some other Formel races ran also today. I don't know why you took the time to quote posts about a race some months ago.. you wrote he cheated in the hungarian GP '06.

You need glasses then. Pedro De La Rosa was trying to overtake him and he clearly cut the chicane by a good 20 or 30 feet. It was so damn blatant the announcers replayed it several times, the the idiot almost caused a crash by not letting De La Rosa by but ended up breaking his own steering box. Good for him!

Here is De La Rosa's quote from the post-race interview found here:
http://www.formula1.com/race/news/4781/763.html

Q: And then a massive battle with Michael that went on for four or five laps?
PDLR: It was not a massive battle, it was just that he was defending his position a little too much for his pace. He was on intermediate slick tyres and he was already doing miracles to keep the car on the track and I didn’t expect him to battle that hard but because there was a dry line and off line it was wet it was difficult for me to have a go and his car was very quick in a straight line so I just waited and waited and from the pit wall they were getting a little nervous and I knew that but I just had to wait and show the patience really to go for it and in the chicane one time and we both went a little bit wide and he jumped the chicane which I thought was not too fair and the second time around I made it and it felt very good.

Q: Sorry to go on about this, but the first time it seemed as if he backed off and realised he had taken an advantage and was going let you go and then decided he wasn’t after all?
PDLR: That nearly cost me a crash. I overtook him and then he jumped the chicane, ok, he came back and he backed off and I went into turn eight on the inside just thinking he was giving position away like he should and he suddenly accelerated and so I jumped over the inside kerb and we just crashed wheels and I really didn’t understand it – it was interesting and that was that.

The guy should retire already, now he's stooped to the level of doing anything it takes including cheating to try and win another championship. He's done. Stick a fork in him.

 

[Osiris_x11]

Sato rulez...

Constructor's cup could get interesting w/ Renault & da' Scuderia playin' pfunnie w/ restricted stuff. Their added advantage might be quite daunting to make up if they are forced to do w/o.

Mclaren's been consistent w/ both drivers, unlike HONDA who has had three races w/ zero constructor's points earned... That might prove to be the difference for HONDA as they strive towards the third position w/ only five races remaining. However, HONDA seems to have momentum as well as capability. Hopefully both car-finishing consistently will take hold. Mclaren's driver's should tank'it, both will depart after the season regardless... :biggrin:

BTW, the HONDA cars are still the model 007's?!?


Remaining schedule...

* Turkish GP, 08/27/2006
* Italian GP, 09/10/2006
* Japanese GP, 10/08/2006
* Chinese GP, 10/01/2006
* Brazilian GP, 10/22/2006

 

[Jin1976]

For those who didn't get to see the race including myself I found the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBc_tLyH804

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr0ytByP5hQ

 

[Honda F1 Racing]

Re: Sato rulez...

BTW, the HONDA cars are still the model 007's?!?

? The 2006 Honda chassis is the RA106, not the 2005 BAR-007.

Constructor's Championship is going down to the wire! Wish Honda was in the mix, but a win this season is still well deserved and long overdue.

 

[AU_NSX]

Nice race for Button. At least now we know the car is competitive.

I think we know that Button is competitive...

Because of the rain, ultimate grip and power are not as important. That is why they call the rain "the great equalizer" in F1.

Michael Schumacher was still 4kph faster on the straight and Massa recorded the fastest lap eventually with dry tyres (I'm not going to call them slicks)

But did you see the way Button drove to catch Alonso after the safety car? That really showed what Button is capable of! But I don't think the Honda is up to the speed of the Ferrari, McLaren or Renault just yet!

 

[ChrisK]

I don't want to spread a bad mood but what does make you think he could've won the race without all those (for Button) happy fortuities? Räikkönen was unstoppable until he retired, same story for Alonso. I can't imagine how he could've won without the chaos of the rain and wet track. But that's racing business. Nevertheless he drove a fantastic race and deserved the win.

I don't think he could have won on a dry track today. Obviously starting from 14th on the grid on a track that has maybe 1 good place to pass means he would have been lucky to get any points no matter how fast his car was. His did qualify 4th though so that means his car did have competitive speed (Maybe not to win but a possible podium). I think even if Kimi and Alonso were in the race in todays wet condition Button has a good shot at the win. Button was already in P1 when Alonso rejoined the race with dry tires and then retired. He would have to have made a come back and pass Button to retake P1. None of them needed any fuel at that point. It was all down to the choice of tires and if the teams could pit and swap the tires quickly. Micheal in 3rd spot was well behind and both Button and Alonso (Had he stayed in) woudn't have had to worry about him. The battle once Kimi crashed out was between Button and Alonso for the win. Kimi also was in 5th I think when he crashed out.

 

[ChrisK]

Michael Schumacher was still 4kph faster on the straight and Massa recorded the fastest lap eventually with dry tyres (I'm not going to call them slicks)

But did you see the way Button drove to catch Alonso after the safety car? That really showed what Button is capable of! But I don't think the Honda is up to the speed of the Ferrari, McLaren or Renault just yet!

Massa recording the fast lap on dry tires could have an asterisk next to it because by that time Button had already turned down the revs on his car since a win was secured. He wasn't pushing the car at that point. However, the Ferrari's still were probably the fastest cars on the track in dry conditions. I just can't believe how crappy the Bridgestone are in the wet compared to the Michelin's.

 

[svalleynsx]

I'm very ecstatic for Honda and Jenson Button, and their victory is well-deserved and long time coming. Finally a well-planned and executed strategy as alluded to by Button in the interview room following the race.

However I hate to rain on everyone's parade(no pun intended) as well. If not for the rain chaos and Alonso's and Schumacher's 2 sec. penalty infractions in practice and qualifying, it's very hard imagining Button even making the podium in this race. I think the next race will be a true gauge if Honda can maintain a "race-winning" pace & strategy, or if Hungary was just an anomaly.

Newsflash: Just heard Kubica's BMW Sauber was disqualified for being underweight after post-race inspection. Therefore Massa moves up a spot to 7th and Schumacher moves into the last last points-paying position for 1 point. This means the title moves back into MSC's hand. Win every race from here on out and he shuts out Alonso for the World Driving title.

 

[ChrisK]

I'm very ecstatic for Honda and Jenson Button, and their victory is well-deserved and long time coming. Finally a well-planned and executed strategy as alluded to by Button in the interview room following the race.

However I hate to rain on everyone's parade(no pun intended) as well. If not for the rain chaos and Alonso's and Schumacher's 2 sec. penalty infractions in practice and qualifying, it's very hard imagining Button even making the podium in this race. I think the next race will be a true gauge if Honda can maintain a "race-winning" pace & strategy, or if Hungary was just an anomaly.

Newsflash: Just heard Kubica's BMW Sauber was disqualified for being underweight after post-race inspection. Therefore Massa moves up a spot to 7th and Schumacher moves into the last last points-paying position for 1 point. This means the title moves back into MSC's hand. Win every race from here on out and he shuts out Alonso for the World Driving title.

I just read that. It is amazing how a few hours can change the whole Championship outlook again. Just when things swayed heavily back to Alonso, 1 point made a huge difference.

What is good to see is that both Honda cars and drivers showed they can drive and be very competive in wet conditions. Even RB came in 4th and looked great in the first stink behind Kimi. I think with the new Aero changes they made the last race it did really transform the car back to a competive mode. Button was 4th the last race in good dry conditions so I think the car is at least a podium contendor again. I'm not quite ready to say Honda will consistently challange for wins the rest of the year though, but I do feel a few more podiums for either JB and/or RB will come.

 

[goldNSX]

I don't want to spread a bad mood but what does make you think he could've won the race without all those (for Button) happy fortuities? Räikkönen was unstoppable until he retired, same story for Alonso. I can't imagine how he could've won without the chaos of the rain and wet track. But that's racing business. Nevertheless he drove a fantastic race and deserved the win.

Oh and about those Schumel Schumi (that word doesn't exist in german by the way, never heard of that phrase too ) and Hughs cheating comments. Maybe he could add some facts for what he claims and posts and not only post his mental effluvia without any background what he's talking about.

Raikkönen and esp. Alonso had problems with their second set of tires. I watched ORF and Heinz Prüller commentated on the significant bader times esp. Buttons third stop was a safety stop, not really necessary. Raikkönen was very fast on his first set of tires as you say nearly unbeatable but his second was worse.

On Schumel Schumi: Well it existed quite a long time some years ago and the word does exist. Just google.

 

[NSXGMS]

I must say, I am very pleased with Honda's showing today. Jenson looked like he was going to overtake Alonso anyway. Bravo. Nice finish for Rubens makes me think Honda's getting it together and maybe Jenson's whining was somewhat justified.

Great job Honda!

Renault is in serious trouble...whoa. If Ferrari gets within striking distance the title is pretty much theirs. Massa looks to be getting better every race and Fisi looks worse every race. He's been an awful teammate recently. Ferrari is so consistent and you can never, ever count Michael out of anything.

Anyone know if he's going to be penalized for that blocking of De La Rosa and cutting the corner to stay ahead? I believe he should be penalized as it cost Pedro some time ultimately...

 

[NSXGMS]

Interesting, I saw the complete GP, cutting corners is pretty common while racing on a track, it's called hitting the apex. Alonso was the only driver that lapped Schumacher and he let him pass without any intricacies. There was no other car he had to 'relinquish' his position to. I don't know why you took the time to quote posts about a race some months ago.. you wrote he cheated at the hungarian GP '06.

Hugh is simply establishing Michael's history of cheating, and no one does it more often and more blatantly than Schumi. The argument that Michael has not cheated multiple times in the past is completely outrageous.

Also, F1 rules dictate that a driver cannot cut a corner to benefit their position. Whether or not he should have conceded that position to DLR (he should have) he should be penalized for cutting that corner. DLR had to slow due to Michael's apparent bold, out-of-control maneuver so it even cost him some time.

Räikkönen was unstoppable until he retired, same story for Alonso:

Jenson was going to overtake Alonso, period. Alonso was done long before his wheel fell off. Button was riding him like a mechanical bull. At worst Honda has a #2 finish--3 if Kimi stays in the game. BTW, Kimi's DNF had nothing to do with the weather. He should have looked at where he was driving.

 

[Klayton]

Well I didn't knew about a rule that doesn't allow you to drive aggressive to safe your place. De la Rosa was faster, no question, but what's the point, it is a race at least and you don't have to make place for a car that's faster than you. I don't think Schumacher could've held his position for 10 rounds but he did a good job trying. Hugh is right he cut the chicane 2 times but that was a result of the fight about place 2. Schumacher obviously was driving at 100%. Like always. With tires that aren't made for the dry track. He wanted too much and had to cut them to not put a risk on de la Rosa or himself.

The racing marshals didn't call it cheating or took disciplinary action against Schumacher, and to be honest I think they got an idea about what they are doing and don't need to talk bad about someone to feel better in their mopishness.

Oh and by the way he didn't brake his front suspension, there was a contact with Heidfeld that coused the failure.

goldNSX: Schumel Schumi?

 

[NSXGMS]

Well I didn't knew about a rule that doesn't allow you to drive aggressive to safe your place. De la Rosa was faster, no question, but what's the point, it is a race at least and you don't have to make place for a car that's faster than you. I don't think Schumacher could've held his position for 10 rounds but he did a good job trying. Hugh is right he cut the chicane 2 times but that was a result of the fight about place 2. Schumacher obviously was driving at 100%.

This is simply untrue. It's totally clear Michael was beaten just before the chicane and ran right over the Foster's logo to cut ahead of DLR. As he was beaten he was left with two options: concede the position or cut across the chicane and try to speed ahead, which is 100% illegal according to F1 rules when fighting for a position. He chose to break the rules as he has constantly done in the past. When DLR saw this he backed off not knowing what MS would do next causing him to lose overall time.

He couldn't hold his position there; he certainly couldn't have held it for 10 more laps. No one is saying he can't hold DLR off with aggressive driving which he did until he was cleanly taken by DLR. At that point you concede. He did not.

Don't be surprised if he gets penalized next race for this crazy move.

Listen, MS is an incredible driver which is what makes his constant cheating even more perplexing. He has the talent and the car to win every race yet he chooses to cheat time and time again. It's hard to root against MS but anyone who believes he respects the rules and drives fairly is in a fantasy world.

 

[Klayton]

Ok I'm officially living in a fantasy world now.

It is so funny how people comment on things like they've been there and absolutely know what he thought, he did, and wanted to obtain with the driving he did. To get this straight you saw a television broadcast - there've been racing marshals who did nothing in their live than race and watch motorsport events to obtain cheating and unfair driving. They even disqualified the BMW driver Kubica because his car was 2 kilograms too light after the race. It's clear which statement I trust in.

Of course I got my MSC-glasses on but it is ridiculous how people try to talk bad about him because he's not the best at the moment and they get away with comments like that, but I guess envy is the modern form of compliments.

 

[Hugh]

It's a shame really. Because Schumacher's legacy will not be one of a multiple champion and great driver but that of a cheater. He has already lost the respect of many and once that's gone, its gone for good.

 

[Klayton]

It's a shame really. Because Schumacher's legacy will not be one of a multiple champion and great driver but that of a cheater.

And why is that? Because of people like you with no prove at all who keep claiming he's cheating in every race he's driving. To quote your words from some posts above. :frown:

 

[Hugh]

And why is that? Because of people like you with no prove at all who keep claiming he's cheating in every race he's driving. To quote your words from some posts above. :frown:

The proof is in living color on your television screen. Arguing about this is like arguing that the sky isn't blue. It makes you look like a moron.

Go to Google and search using the string "Schumacher cheats". You'll be entertained for hours.

 

[NSXGMS]

And why is that? Because of people like you with no prove at all who keep claiming he's cheating in every race he's driving. To quote your words from some posts above. :frown:

The world is not out to get Michael. I don't think anyone wants to think of his legacy as one of constant dirty driving and cheating, but unfortunately the world does not agree with you and his legacy is tainted. NSX Prime isn't making up these allegations. It's been common knowledge for 15 years. Any non-biased person who watches footage of the incidents in question would have to say he was dirty, particularly the Prost and Hill incidents. It's plain as day!

And BTW, he only cheated so far this season in Monaco (telemetry proves it), so that's far from every race. The 2 sec. practice penalty Friday was nonsense but again, rules are rules. No passing means no passing. Alonso lost his temper and was penalized as well, so it's far from anti-MS. Flavio is always going to raise hell.

And I don't see what Kubica has anything to do with this. Rules are rules. I like Kubica and he evidently is a very talented driver who will see success soon. If the car weighs in light it is breaking the rules. But there are rules and everyone has to abide. BTW, 2kg isn't a slim margin if that's what the official report was.

And for the record, he is the best driver as of this moment, momentum-wise.

 

[NSXGMS]

Oh, and I almost forgot: OJ didn't do it.

 

[Klayton]

And I don't see what OJ has anything to do with this.

I know I can google for Schumacher cheating and get 500 million pages. I know there are millions of people who disagree with me but I still believe the marshals who didn't convict Schumacher for any action at Monaco or Hungary GP (yet?) are right and you, who look at the TV and judge with the moderators opinion in the ear, are wrong. This is my opinion and I hope you guys will respect it, just like I respect Hughs opinion on global warming and the appearance of natural resources.