• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Clutch Pedal Stiffness

Joined
26 November 2011
Messages
1,096
Location
Raleigh, NC
I'm inquiring on known items that could cause a stiff clutch pedal. I recently had a PG1 installed, but I know it felt great when I took it home. After a few weeks I noticed that it felt a little odd. There was some fluid coming in through the firewall so the clutch master cyl seemed like the no-brainer.

I took it to the dealership and had the clutch master and slave replaced and yet pressure is still just as horrible.

Any ideas? I'm taking years off my left knee.
 
I have seen the release bearing guide get worn and it does cause this - you can have it replaced and it will be like new again.
 
I have seen the release bearing guide get worn and it does cause this - you can have it replaced and it will be like new again.

That's the route I'm leaning towards. So this is a brand new clutch, do you think there could of been a mistake on the install?
 
There are only two sources of fluid leaks in the system, the first is a blown seal (in either the master or slave cylinder) and the other is a breach of the fluid line. If its dripping at the pedal side then its the master cylinder's seal that has gone bad. Normally the entire cylinder would be replaced, which is a relatively simple and not overly expensive job.

As for return feel, or how much pressure you feel at the pedal, its a function of several things but most important of them is the clamp pressure of the clutch springs themselves. That is where all of the energy of the push is stored. There will also be some smaller springs that aid in the feel, one inside each of the hydraulic cylinders, sometimes one at the throwout release arm, nearly always one in the pedal mechanism itself. When a throwout bearing goes bad you can rarely feel it but nearly always hear it. In fact that is the test, if you hear a whirring/whining sound that goes away with even the slightest depression of the clutch its often a noise caused by a bad throwout bearing. You let let a bad one go for a very long time before it has to be replaced if you can stand the noise. Back to the question of clutch feel pressure. The other thing that determines how hard it feels to push the clutch in is the ratio of the size of the surface area of the pistons in the two cylinders. This ratio effects not only the effective pressure and travel distance of the two cylinders relative to one another but also the amount of force exerted on one side compared to the other - same ratio, same basic arithmatic. So all of that gets applied to the clamping pressure of the pressure plate's springs and, add in the forces of the other springs, adjust for the mechanical advantage provided by the pedal mounting scheme and you come up with how much downward force it takes at the pedal to move the clutch plates apart. Its really not that difficult a calculation to make.
 
Thanks! The problem didn't come immediately after the clutch install, maybe 500 miles or so afterwards it progressively came about. This is the point where my master & slave were replaced to no avail. It was leaking fluid anyway so it needed to be replaced regardless.

The pressure it takes to apply now is pretty incredible, there's actually an audible feel/sound when depressing the pedal but I don't really know how to describe it.
 
Sounds like the input shaft splines weren't cleaned/lubed during the install or the wrong grease was used.
 
I doubt that is the case. In truth the clutch disk does not move very much on the splines. The effort to push the pedal has little to nothing to do with the disk on the input shaft, what it deals with is the movement of the throw-out arms or the fingers of the pressure plate spring in the case of a diaphram clutch. Those are the parts that the pedal moves, that and the physical mass of the pressure plate itself, which is not in any way attached to the input shaft. The suggestion that the throwout bearing might be rubbing wrong on the input shaft('s collar) might be on the right track though I've never actually known of it to happen.
 
Chris from SOS posted this about someone who was having similar problems with a stock clutch.

"We had a customer with a similar problem. Please check the collar in the transmission that interfaces with the release bearing. The inner surface of the bearing must be well greased to prevent this from binding on the collar. It will cause the problem you describe if not greased.

regards,
-- Chris"
 
Chris from SOS posted this about someone who was having similar problems with a stock clutch.

"We had a customer with a similar problem. Please check the collar in the transmission that interfaces with the release bearing. The inner surface of the bearing must be well greased to prevent this from binding on the collar. It will cause the problem you describe if not greased.

regards,
-- Chris"

I don't feel comfortable questioning the install or any possible steps skipped as the technician is highly regarded among the community and long term customers, I lightly danced around the possibility but it was shut down. I know Comptech will point fingers to the install and he's suggesting that it may be the clutch. Unfortunately it's not something that you can just take a peek at, getting to the clutch is many hours and it will be on my dime.

Meanwhile I'm over $3k deep in this debacle and my car is worse off than it started. I'm about to throw in the towel and just have a dealership go full OEM, this way at least somebody is accountable. Unless somebody has a better idea.
 
I don't feel comfortable questioning the install or any possible steps skipped as the technician is highly regarded among the community and long term customers, I lightly danced around the possibility but it was shut down. I know Comptech will point fingers to the install and he's suggesting that it may be the clutch. Unfortunately it's not something that you can just take a peek at, getting to the clutch is many hours and it will be on my dime.

Meanwhile I'm over $3k deep in this debacle and my car is worse off than it started. I'm about to throw in the towel and just have a dealership go full OEM, this way at least somebody is accountable. Unless somebody has a better idea.

Might want to see if that collar can be reached from the hole where the clutch fork goes through(probably need a flashlight and maybe a inspection mirror). If you can get in there with a thin, long brush with the proper grease you might be able to get enough on that surface Chris is talking about.
 
Might want to see if that collar can be reached from the hole where the clutch fork goes through(probably need a flashlight and maybe a inspection mirror). If you can get in there with a thin, long brush with the proper grease you might be able to get enough on that surface Chris is talking about.

Hmmm, maybe not a bad idea at all. I have never really been up under there, can any techs chime in on the feasibility of this?
 
Back
Top