clutch 'squeak' from engine bay?

[0ctan3]

-When pressing or releasing the clutch pedal, there is intermittently a metal squeaking sound from the engine bay.

-To go along with this, it'll be difficult to deselect a gear, if I am say, in 2nd or 1st and off the throttle. It takes a tiny 'blip' to be able to get back to neutral.

-If I don't drive the car for a few days this problem won't exist and it shifts perfectly until I drive again for about 45mins to an hour.

-If she's been sitting outside in the sun all day, that's when it's most noticeable.

-The current clutch is about 30,000 miles old

-All clutch hydraulics were replaced a few months ago and these symptoms were the same before and after.
​

Any ideas? Nobody's been able to figure out what this is.

 

[EdinKali]

Sounds like the clutch may not be fully disengaging when hot. Squeak could be a bad throwout bearing. Also, when was the last time the trans oil was changed? and was it replaced with Acura/Honda MTL?

 

[0ctan3]

Also, when was the last time the trans oil was changed? and was it replaced with Acura/Honda MTL?

3 months ago, and yes, MTL.

 

[0ctan3]

Squeak could be a bad throwout bearing.

The noise happens weather or not the engine is running. Would that rule out the throwout bearing?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

-All clutch hydraulics were replaced a few months ago and these symptoms were the same before and after.

I suspect maybe the slave plunger, where is seats into the clutch fork may be dry. It should have a dab of Urea grease in the cup where the slave plunger mates to it.

I would also check the pivot on the clutch fork, since you may be able to get a dab of grease in there, with a q-tip.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[0ctan3]

I suspect maybe the slave plunger, where is seats into the clutch fork may be dry. It should have a dab of Urea grease in the cup where the slave plunger mates to it.
I would also check the pivot on the clutch fork, since you may be able to get a dab of grease in there, with a q-tip.

thank you Larry, exactly who I was hoping to hear from :smile:

 

[spider2k]

-All clutch hydraulics were replaced a few months ago and these symptoms were the same before and after.

I suspect maybe the slave plunger, where is seats into the clutch fork may be dry. It should have a dab of Urea grease in the cup where the slave plunger mates to it.

I would also check the pivot on the clutch fork, since you may be able to get a dab of grease in there, with a q-tip.

Regards,
LarryB

this. my dd had the same issue. i just swapped the release bearing on my b16 'sol and there was no grease on any of the contact points. the tip of the plunger, the pivot AND the actual input shaft of the tranny. a little high temp urea solved the squeak.

 

[e.pie]

Bumping an ollllld thread, having this same issue.

Going to try the grease on the fork tonight.

 

[Swiftscott]

Going to revive this thread as I'm having the exact issue with my '95. I have a squeak, and even worse the pedal really sticks and catches during the bottom couple inches of travel. Last night I pulled the slave and liberally greased the plunger and the cup that the slave cylinder plunger ball fits into. However, I couldn't really figure out how to grease the other end of that cup as it disappears into the tranny case.

Wondering if anyone has a solution I can do in my garage, or if I should add this to the list when the car goes in for the 60,000 mile service. Of course I'd rather spend a few hours of my own labor at zero dollars than pay a mechanic if I can do it.

thanks guys.
Oh, car has 62,500 miles now

 

[tbnsxt]

its the clutch fork hinge or where the fork engages the throwout bearing if the sound persists after you lube the slave ball.

 

[angus]

Going to revive this thread as I'm having the exact issue with my '95. I have a squeak, and even worse the pedal really sticks and catches during the bottom couple inches of travel. Last night I pulled the slave and liberally greased the plunger and the cup that the slave cylinder plunger ball fits into. However, I couldn't really figure out how to grease the other end of that cup as it disappears into the tranny case.

Wondering if anyone has a solution I can do in my garage, or if I should add this to the list when the car goes in for the 60,000 mile service. Of course I'd rather spend a few hours of my own labor at zero dollars than pay a mechanic if I can do it.

thanks guys.
Oh, car has 62,500 miles now

This sounds like a worn release bearing guide (this is the sleeve that the bearing rides on) What happens is the bearing wears a groove into the sleeve and then starts to dig in as it travels.

I have found this quite a few times on NSX's and unfortunately you do need to pull the tranny to replace it.

 

[Old Guy]

I saw the bump on this thread by Swiftscott and decided I would have the dealer check out the clutch release mechanism while I was having some routine service work being done recently. I had the same issue of a slight noise from the clutch on pressing or releasing the pedal and I could detect a little jerkiness in the pedal operation. I don't know whether the mechanic got in and applied some grease to the release fork in addition to the plunger; but, it worked a small miracle. Shop time for the grease job was about 2 hours, which initially irked me. However, the improvement in clutch operation was so great that it eliminated any misgivings I had about the $ spent to have them do the grease job.

 

[cmthomson]

I had pretty much the same issue, due to an only semi-competent tech replacing the clutch without proper lubrication. It's not easy to fix after the fact; took two trips to a competent tech to make it go away. To be very specific, as documented here on Prime in the past, it's a lack of lubrication where the clutch mechanism passes through the transmission case (and the fork inside). Pulling off the boot and squirting lubricant inside might work (it did in my case).

 

[drew]

My throw out bearing sleeve, release bearing guide (21102-PR8-000 or 21102-PR8-010) has some noticeable wear. The photos make it look really bad, but it isn't terrible in hand...very smooth and almost no tactile difference in shape.

View attachment 157673

So I am seeking some advice: replace the sleeve or not?

I am also missing release bearing guide cover (21107-PR8-000) which I have not noticed in other NSXs. Is the lack of this part the cause of the sleeve wear?

The weep hole in the leftmost photo was drilled by me. I figured maybe I could rotate the sleeve 180-degree, but the Honda engineers ensured the factory weep hole to be at the bottom with asymmetrical hole placement.

 

[Mac Attack]

My throw out bearing sleeve, release bearing guide (21102-PR8-000 or 21102-PR8-010) has some noticeable wear. The photos make it look really bad, but it isn't terrible in hand...very smooth and almost no tactile difference in shape.


So I am seeking some advice: replace the sleeve or not?

I am also missing release bearing guide cover (21107-PR8-000) which I have not noticed in other NSXs. Is the lack of this part the cause of the sleeve wear?

The weep hole in the leftmost photo was drilled by me. I figured maybe I could rotate the sleeve 180-degree, but the Honda engineers ensured the factory weep hole to be at the bottom with asymmetrical hole placement.

I would personally replace it. It's not that much money, you'll have peace-of-mind, and it'll last another 20+ years. There's some other stuff I would recommend while you're in there. What I went through is all documented in the following link if you're interested:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/203689-Need-a-new-clutch-Considerations-for-older-cars-or-high-mileage-ones

As far as the release bearing guide cover, I've never seen one. According to the online parts manual, it doesn't apply to my '92 M/T car.

Dave

 

[drew]

Dave, I went through your post several times (a few of your attachments are gone, they sounded helpful too). I try not to post lightly, but I have never seen a worn sleeve like this, considered polishing it up and then I decided to post for advice.

Parts are 2-3 weeks out of for me and I really only have the next two weeks for such work... You also replaced a lot of parts, I'm a bit of a cheap bastard, and I'm not going to be pushing my car to the limit.

I'll order parts then and mothball my project. I'm considering ordering a guide cover just for fun because sometimes curiosity is greater than cheap.

//I'm starting to get concerned about the long-term viability of the NSX. A lot of main train maintenance part numbers ONLY apply to the NSX. It may be that things like this sleeve may be interchanged between common models despite the unique part number.

 

[goldNSX]

Get it while you can!
There must have been a greasing issue I guess. Mine looke better but I've replaced it after 200k km just because I don't go cheapo. How does the clutch release bearing fork looks like? I guess not better.
If the part no. contains SL0 it's NSX ONLY. Parts availability is still very, very good compared to other makes. If you're willing to wait you can get nearly everything, if not in the US, then in Japan.

 

[drew]

Yeah, I am hoping it is a lack of grease problem too.

I have found at least one SL0 part on the S2000 (46933-SL0-003). I have found a bunch of PR7, PR8 and SMx parts that come back to NSX only....I'm running most parts through the interchange to see from what I can rob parts.


Anybody got the transmission input shaft seal p/n handy? I'm having a difficult time distinguishing it from the RH axle intermediate shaft seal.

Edit: Input shaft (main shaft seal) appears to be 91216-PR8-005.

It is hiding behind the transmission clutch casing, instead of "in front" on the parts diagram. FWIW: This PR8 shows only for the NSX.

 

[Mac Attack]

Drew, I completely understand.

I didn't replace my parts because of pushing them to the limits - I replaced them because I didn't have the foresight to do it during my engine rebuild ordeal. I didn't know that a worn transmission ISB could contribute to clutch shudder, and my tranny had ~125k miles on it when I did the carbon clutch change and it shuddered like crazy. So unfortunate when you're excited to drive the car again after having it apart a few years for an (extended) rebuild. So, after only 4-5k miles, I replaced the clutch and rebuilt the tranny so I wouldn't have to deal with it again. I like to try and do things myself to learn, but it's such an ordeal these days with other priorities. That's why I decided to do as much as possible this time around so I wouldn't have to do it again until my next clutch replacement.

As another point of reference, Kaz also recommends changing the throwout bearing collar, fork, and guide for his clutch replacements. I hadn't heard about that ever before on Prime, but it makes sense to look at these parts as just more consumables that wear.

If you say the collar feels smooth, then I would go ahead and try my best to polish it up and reuse it then. If you didn't notice any issues with driving it before you took it apart, then chances are it will continue working fine if you just clean it, polish it, and use a liberal amount of good grease when reassembling. Of course, this is just one of the two materials sliding together, and you didn't say if you're replacing the throwout bearing with a new one or not. If you're not replacing the bearing, then I would inspect it as well as possible and it may need to be polished too. However, I assume it will be replaced and everything is apart for a clutch change.

I don't know what grease you plan to use, but [MENTION=7722]Kaz[/MENTION] has made reference to another Honda urea grease before in some of his posts that is not the cheaper green stuff we seem to only be able to get in the states. I think he has said it is a grey color, superior to the green stuff, and much more expensive. Maybe just using a superior grease than what we typically use and your polished-up guide will work just fine?

A better grease than the Honda green urea stuff might be something to check into at least. I do know that recently I removed my newer OEM slave cylinder (that only has ~6k miles on it) to regrease the cup in my pivot fork (that was also brand-new from the DIY tranny rebuild I did not too long ago). I had noticed a bit of noise back there when operating the clutch hydraulics and was a bit pissed because everything was new and I knew I had correctly greased everything with the Honda green urea grease. Anyways, I removed the slave, verified there was adequate grease in the cup, then cleaned everything. After cleaning, I saw a bit of wear on the slave ball, so I polished it and then decided to use some high-temp black moly/PTFE grease for brake caliper pins instead of that green Honda crap. Put it back together and it's smooth as butter. We'll see how long it lasts, but I suspect it will be just fine. Edit - My rubber debris boot on the transmission was properly placed and in good shape. I don't think my issue was due to foreign material getting past the cover, but just an inferior grease.

My point is - just like Honda-branded MTF, Honda-branded engine oil, Honda-branded coolant, etc, there are better aftermarket products available.

Sorry about some of my deleted attachments - I occasionally do that to free up some space with pics I didn't think were that interesting. I've got them saved and can put them back up or email you any if you think they may help.

Good luck!

 

[drew]

'Prime needs to update its photo limits, current policy is not keeping up with the times.

I am doing an AT to MT conversion of a JP RHD car, as MTs are quite rare. I am putting together a menagerie of used parts from all over the world (US, EU, UK, AU, JP, and NZ).

Therefore, I don't know how well the parts work together because I have stuff from everywhere. I was hoping to install the transmission today (well yesterday) and my timeline has evaporated.

And, conversely, I'm trying to be cost effective, shipping is expensive and time-consuming. Meaning, I have a used clutch with new friction discs, pilot bearing and throw out bearing. I did not run out the flywheel or plates; and despite the bluing: I am hoping they are good.

The Wizard Kaz is on a level of perfection so high that he has to be doing 100 point cars. Which is awesome and exponentially costly; but we all learn a lot from him. Especially knowing that I am functionally useless when compared to his level of attention to detail.

It appears that Kaz's grey goo may be UM264 is 41211-PY5-305, seems to be out of production. My local Honda dealer wants a mere NZ$62.99 for the standard Urea Grease. So the more I can source from alternate sources makes my life easier.

It appears my clutch fork is good, not sure if it came with the same transmission that I have. The sleeve can be replated and/or machined if required.

I'll keep adding the KB as I go along.

 

[goldNSX]

I understand your approach to have the car up and running ASAP and not the most expensive way. Let's see how it works out.

 

[Mac Attack]

While I would still prefer to not take a chance and have to drop the transmission again to address something minor like the throwout bearing hanging up, I can understand what you're going through! Sounds like a fun project!