Do your headlights bounce?

[comtec]

I can understand your umbrage because you are justifiably proud of your work and the DYI you've made but I have taken these(NSX) apart and other headlamps apart as well to refinish , customize or repair for customers.

I don't know about being proud of it. I fixed mine and people wanted to know how, that's why a created the DIY. You have taken them apart but did you actually look at the clips and the mounting slots for them? By the statement below i would say no.

This is what I am saying. It fits tight when new but wears out over time and loses it's tight hold.

That is not correct. The clips were always too small for the slots. They didn't wear away, they are too small. Look at my DIY pics again, the gap between the clip and bracket is easy to see.

IMO the deal is this. When the car is new and the headlights are adjusted where they should be, there is tension on the large spring bracket in the front bottom. Gradually the spring bracket for whatever reason looses some of it's Resistance which allows the assembly to move because of the clips being too small. You could probably keep adjusting the lights down to account for this but they would no longer be in correct alignment.

You have fixed the problem by putting in rubber ( what looks like a sliced hose) to act as a wedge and make it fit tighter.

I used 600V, 1400psi cross linked polyolefin adhesive lined sleeves with the adhesive turned toward the mounting bracket. It's like heat shrink on steroids. :wink:

 

[LJSB]

I have taken these headlamps apart. I was so concerned when doing so that I measured and recorded the melting points of the various plastics and adhesives used in their construction. I wanted to take no chance in damaging the lamps by just heating them up and prying away. I wanted to know the parameters I was dealing with.

I also know these fasteners. They have been used in a wide range of applications with some variation on automobiles for many years.

Typically they are used to fasten moldings. They push through a hole and snap in place just like these and also, just like these, they fit into holes that usually are slotted somewhat larger than needed to accommodate variables in assembly during manufacturing.

Using a shim as you have is a good idea one that Volvo, BMW and others use with these types of clips to further tighten them and to prevent abrasion of the mating surfaces.

The difference is that in this application the long screw acts as a lever and with the force of going over the road causes this clip to wear and lose it's tight hold. Your idea was a good one and very resourceful but I feel it solves the symptom and not the problem which I believe will return in time as the shim material degrades.

Using epoxy does the same thing but has advantages.
It will make the parts one unit and it will not wear or shake apart again.
Also, before you gather together your materials that you plan to use as a shim, sit down and start cutting away you would be done and reassembling the lamp if you used the epxoy. It's a whole lot simpler and stronger. I would not be surprised this is what Mike at clearcorners does. It's simpler.

If you don't have the adhesives I showed above in your workshop I suggest you try them because once you see their ability to permanently hold parts and make or create you own parts or replacements you will be glad you did.

I may be wrong in saying this but I feel you are taking my suggestion way too personally. This is a forum. It is where ideas meet, are tossed around and hopefully improved upon. OK?

Turbo2Go asked for input and I'm giving some.

 

[comtec]

I have taken these headlamps apart. I was so concerned when doing so that I measured and recorded the melting points of the various plastics and adhesives used in their construction. I wanted to take no chance in damaging the lamps by just heating them up and prying away. I wanted to know the parameters I was dealing with.

I also know these fasteners. They have been used in a wide range of applications with some variation on automobiles for many years.

Typically they are used to fasten moldings. They push through a hole and snap in place just like these and also, just like these, they fit into holes that usually are slotted somewhat larger than needed to accommodate variables in assembly during manufacturing.

Using a shim as you have is a good idea one that Volvo, BMW and others use with these types of clips to further tighten them and to prevent abrasion of the mating surfaces.

The difference is that in this application the long screw acts as a lever and with the force of going over the road causes this clip to wear and lose it's tight hold. Your idea was a good one and very resourceful but I feel it solves the symptom and not the problem which I believe will return in time as the shim material degrades.

Using epoxy does the same thing but has advantages.
It will make the parts one unit and it will not wear or shake apart again.
Also, before you gather together your materials that you plan to use as a shim, sit down and start cutting away you would be done and reassembling the lamp if you used the epxoy. It's a whole lot simpler and stronger. I would not be surprised this is what Mike at clearcorners does. It's simpler.

If you don't have the adhesives I showed above in your workshop I suggest you try them because once you see their ability to permanently hold parts and make or create you own parts or replacements you will be glad you did.

I may be wrong in saying this but I feel you are taking my suggestion way too personally. This is a forum. It is where ideas meet, are tossed around and hopefully improved upon. OK?

Turbo2Go asked for input and I'm giving some.

I am in no way getting upset, sorry if it seemed that way.

I just can't get you to understand that the clip is not wearing out. You keep saying that over and over but the clips had no visible wear on them at all. The only wear in the assembly was where the large spring and the mounting brackets touched the housing which is the white powder that can be seen in my photo's. I am not worried about my fix wearing out. The 1400psi flame retardant material that i used will probably outlast the light.

I am pretty sure the reason for this happening is what i said in my last post. Do you not agree with with my conclusion?

 

[LJSB]

I am in no way getting upset, sorry if it seemed that way.

I just can't get you to understand that the clip is not wearing out. You keep saying that over and over but the clips had no visible wear on them at all. The only wear in the assembly was where the large spring and the mounting brackets touched the housing which is the white powder that can be seen in my photo's. I am not worried about my fix wearing out. The 1400psi flame retardant material that i used will probably outlast the light.

I am pretty sure the reason for this happening is what i said in my last post. Do you not agree with with my conclusion?

Like I keep telling you, the prongs, the arrow heads, the part of the clip that goes through the panel it is attaching to, loses it's grip. The clip's legs work like a spring and its snaps into the hole. You saw the problem and the result of it's wearing out, thats why you put a shim pulling it out wards and tight again. It's endemic with this type of "arrowhead" fastener. They don't get a big red arrow pointing out they are worn or failing, the fact that it is loose and moves shows that it has.
If they were made of metal, like they were in the 50's-70's you could spread them apart and they would work again and be nice and tight. They, being metal, presented their own set of problems but the plastic ones like this, don't keep their spring like quality and get sloppy. When they have only two legs like this one it is more likely to lose it's grip.
I just had some on a dog leg moulding of a Saturn Vue lose their grip and they started to rattle as well. Sometimes this snap together stuff just doesn't work so well.
Your 1400 psi material is heat shrink tubing. Cut in half it has no psi rating at all, a character that is not important here in any case. I think it will collapse to some degree because it designed to do so. That really is not my point either. What ever material you use, rubber, foam, heat shrink tubing making the clip fixed to the body with the materials I've shown will be a faster, stronger, permanent fix.

Really you should buy some of this stuff because when you see how well and easy it works for so many things automotive you'll love it.

 

[comtec]

Your 1400 psi material is heat shrink tubing. Cut in half it has no psi rating at all, a character that is not important here in any case. I think it will collapse to some degree because it designed to do so.

It is not just normal heat shrink tubing. Yes it is designed to shrink at 155c (311F) but if the assembly gets that hot the bouncing won't be my problem. It's psi rating or lbf/in² is a measure of tensile strength which is a intensive property that has nothing to do with the material being a sleeve. It is the ultimate tear rating of the material based on it's density.

 

[TURBO2GO]

OK, lets not get caught up on the rubber material here. Joe, are you saying just do the glue and not the shim? or to do both? I'm a bit confused. I may tackle this job myself soon. This bouncing drives me crazy.

 

[LJSB]

PM sent

 

[old_S13]

Like I keep telling you, the prongs, the arrow heads, the part of the clip that goes through the panel it is attaching to, loses it's grip. The clip's legs work like a spring and its snaps into the hole. You saw the problem and the result of it's wearing out, thats why you put a shim pulling it out wards and tight again. It's endemic with this type of "arrowhead" fastener. They don't get a big red arrow pointing out they are worn or failing, the fact that it is loose and moves shows that it has.
If they were made of metal, like they were in the 50's-70's you could spread them apart and they would work again and be nice and tight. They, being metal, presented their own set of problems but the plastic ones like this, don't keep their spring like quality and get sloppy. When they have only two legs like this one it is more likely to lose it's grip.
I just had some on a dog leg moulding of a Saturn Vue lose their grip and they started to rattle as well. Sometimes this snap together stuff just doesn't work so well.
Your 1400 psi material is heat shrink tubing. Cut in half it has no psi rating at all, a character that is not important here in any case. I think it will collapse to some degree because it designed to do so. That really is not my point either. What ever material you use, rubber, foam, heat shrink tubing making the clip fixed to the body with the materials I've shown will be a faster, stronger, permanent fix.

Really you should buy some of this stuff because when you see how well and easy it works for so many things automotive you'll love it.

I didnt notice this thread until today, I dont have time to login much anymore. Anyway, I'll chime in.

Both Joe and Comtec have interesting solutions to this problem that apparently seem to work to some degree depending on how worn the adjuster(s) are. Besides using sub-par adjusters, the 02-05 headlights have a few other flaws as well. For one, the frame inside is fairly heavy and it puts a lot of stress on the already weak adjusters. Two, the adjusters not only have play, but the threads are also weak and easy to strip. I can go on and on, but this is what you get when you have a low volume production car.

The shims and epoxy can both work, but ultimately it depends on how damaged the adjusters are. If they are stripped, shimming or epoxying will not help them. Someone mentioned stuffing paper under the projector spring support - uhm, no. I believe if you're going to fix something then fix it properly, not a patch-fix.

I just finished a pair of headlights for Matt. The adjusters were not only worn but also stripped, hence the reason we replace the adjuster with a heavy duty adjuster. IMO, this is the only true and proven solution that will work for years to come. The good thing about this, is that even on an NSX with an upgraded (stiff) suspension, the lights will not fall out of alignment due to weak and/or stripped adjuster.

Cheers,
Mike / ClearCorners.Com


ps: Joe, thanks for some of the paint tips you gave me years ago.. your advice really helped with this recent pair I completed. Thumbs up my friend! Matte-black with NSX-R scheme:

 

[EuroBoutique]

I think there are many ways to fix this headlight problem. Most 2002+ lights I've worked on are in pretty good shape.

If a set is damaged enough, I would defintely replace the plastic ones with perhaps a metal threaded adjuster. I've seen a few parts that can definitely be upgraded.


btw I love that matte finish, we might have to try that on a set of headlights next time around.

rk

 

[Chris NSX]

Mike, great looking headlight awesome in matte-black.

 

[Matt_337]

Mike, great looking headlight awesome in matte-black.

Fedex says they should be here today :smile:

 

[99 rs]

Arguing aside is the general consensus still to epoxy the adjusters in place? Instead of the shim push the clip in all of the way and glue it in place? I'm starting to get the headlight bounce and am exploring my options right now.

 

[comtec]

Arguing aside is the general consensus still to epoxy the adjusters in place? Instead of the shim push the clip in all of the way and glue it in place? I'm starting to get the headlight bounce and am exploring my options right now.

Did you see the DIY?

Mike

 

[99 rs]

Did you see the DIY?

Mike

Yes but the posts were from 5-6 years ago. Are the rubber spacers still holding up or worn out?

 

[NSX1145]

I just adjust the screw and replace the rubber bushings all perfect now!

 

[comtec]

Yes but the posts were from 5-6 years ago. Are the rubber spacers still holding up or worn out?

Still working perfect. I wouldn't use plain rubber because the heat will probably cause it to disintegrate prematurely. I used polyolefin for this repair.

Mike