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dr's / nurses "pretending they were god"...

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this from cnn today...
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NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- In the desperate days after hurricane Katrina struck, a doctor and two nurses at a flooded New Orleans hospital allegedly killed four patients by giving them a lethal drug cocktail, Louisiana's top law enforcement official said Tuesday.

"We're talking about people that pretended that maybe they were God," Attorney General Charles C. Foti Jr. said, announcing second-degree murder charges against Dr. Anna Pou, Lori L. Budo and Cheri Landry.

"This is not euthanasia. It's homicide," Foti said. (Watch how a mercy killing probe led to murder charges -- 1:41)

The charges stem from the post-Katrina deaths of some patients at New Orleans Memorial Medical Center.

An affidavit said tests determined that a lethal amount of morphine was administered on September 1 to four patients ages 62, 66, 89 and 90. Hurricane Katrina swamped the city on August 28.
'Lethal cocktail'

According to the court document, the morphine was paired with midazolam hydrochloride, known by its brand name Versed. Both drugs are central nervous system depressants. Taken together, Foti said, they become "a lethal cocktail that guarantees that you die."

The doctor and nurses were taken into custody late Monday, following a 10-month investigation that continues. Each was charged with four counts of being a principal to second-degree murder and released on $100,000 bond.

Sources have told CNN the conditions at the hospital were dire, and the killings allegedly were carried out to speed evacuation. Foti would not discuss possible motives on Tuesday.

"We feel that they abused their rights as medical practitioners," was all he would say.
Attorney asserts innocence

Rick Simmons, Pou's attorney, issued a statement saying his client "is innocent of the charges and we intend to vigorously contest them."

He also criticized how the arrest was handled.

"I told them that she is not a flight risk. I told them that she would surrender herself," he told CNN. "Instead, they chose to arrest her in her scrubs so that they could present her scalp to the media."

The lawyer for Landry, John Di Guilio, told CNN he was surprised at his client's arrest. He said Landry plans to enter a "not guilty" plea and contest the charges against her.

Foti for months has been investigating whether hospital and medical staff euthanized some patients. He is expected to outline what he thinks happened to some of the 45 Memorial Hospital patients who were found dead in August after the hurricane evacuations.

"We obviously think it's a very credible. ... We spent a lot of time, energy and manpower working on this case, ... so we think it's a good case," Foti told CNN in February.
Euthanasia was discussed

In October, CNN reported exclusively that after deteriorating conditions -- with food running low and no electricity -- some medical staff openly discussed whether patients should be euthanized.

Dr. Bryant King, a contract physician with Memorial who was working before and after the hurricane, said another doctor came to him and recounted a conversation the doctor claimed she had with a hospital administrator.

According to King, the doctor said that the administrator suggested patients be put "out of their misery."

King said when he objected this physician acknowledged his concerns, but he said that "this other (third) doctor said she'd be willing to do it." King told CNN that he later that day saw one doctor holding a handful of syringes. He left, King said, because he believed the doctors would follow through with their suggestion of euthanasia. However, King never saw any wrongdoing occur.

Shortly after he began his investigation last year, Foti issued 73 subpoenas to hospital staff and physicians after he said the hospital owner, Tenet Healthcare Corp., was not cooperating in the investigation.

Since then tissue samples have been sent to a private East Coast lab to determine if fatal doses of medicine, including the painkiller morphine, were in the bodies of any of the dead, New Orleans Parish Coroner Frank Minyard told CNN in December.

Meanwhile, Tenet announced Tuesday that it is selling three New Orleans-area hospitals, including Memorial Medical Center, which has been closed since Katrina.

Editor's Note: CNN, which broke the hospital deaths story, was nominated Tuesday for an Emmy in Outstanding Investigative Journalism: "Death at Memorial Hospital."
 
Im sure these police officers have 2nd degree in Pharmacology:rolleyes:

Actually he is an Attorney General, more than likely a Lawyer, but you probably don't have a 2nd degree in Law.:rolleyes:
 
One version and excerpt of Hippocratic Oath-

If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play God.
 
Well I don't know how many dying people you've been around... I've been around plenty. And trust me , you can take all your hippocratic whatever, and all your stupid books, with their stupid sayings...... when somebody is dying, and in pain and is miserable... that shit goes RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW... and all you want to do is give that person peace and end their misery. And if those people needed to be on some type of machine to survive, and that machine wasn't running because of power failure... and that person was GOING TO DIE because the power obviously wasn't coming back on anytime soon..... you do what you have to do. None of us were there, so none of us should be so stupid as to presume what was right and what was wrong in that hospital. Those people may have been on their death bed, and it was slowing the evacuation of people that still had a fighting chance... you just don't know.
 
Actually, I've been around a lot of dying and dead people. I didn't make the hippocratic oath and I never commented on the choices that were made. I just stated the obvious, No One should play God. I am sure it was chaotic situation and I never said anything about it. Do you just need to vent or have a cigarette?
 
Wheelman said:
I just stated the obvious, No One should play God. I am sure it was chaotic situation and I never said anything about it. Do you just need to vent or have a cigarette?

Neither. And in that situation, I'm sure that little quip about playing god didn't state anything obvious at all.
 
so none of us should be so stupid as to presume what was right and what was wrong in that hospital. Those people may have been on their death bed, and it was slowing the evacuation of people that still had a fighting chance... you just don't know.

Did you read the whole quote from a version of the Hippocratic Oath? Majority of the medical schools have the Doctors take some version of the Hippocratic oath. It goes both ways, to save a life and to end it.

and all your stupid books, with their stupid sayings...... when somebody is dying, and in pain and is miserable...all that shit goes RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW

I hope your not a Doctor, because you would be killing everyone left to right. Professionals need to stay calm and find a solution to the situation instead of screaming the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Were you there in New Orleans or are you just taking this personal? I worked here in Houston with Katrina evacuees when they started arriving in Houston busloads after busloads. We had the whole Astrodome Complex/ Reliant Stadium arena turned into a make shift shelter, turn into a long term housing compound, until the situation could improve. Don't presume anything either, the story stated that the hospital administer suggested to start to put "people out of their misery." to speed evacuation. It wasn't even a Doctor. A Doctor objected to it. Let's not ever forget about the living victims, the patient's family members. Do you think they were contacted or were asked for consent since some of these patients may not be able to make decisions? An investigation was conducted and apparently the Justice system in Louisiana seems to think that there was enough evidence to arrests these individuals. They will have their day in court, then perhaps we will all find out the truth.
 
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Wheelman said:
Did you read the whole quote from a version of the Hippocratic Oath? Majority of the medical schools have the Doctors take some version of the Hippocratic oath. It goes both ways, to save a life and to end it.

Were you there in New Orleans or are you just taking this personal?

Let's not ever forget about the living victims, the patient's family members. Do you think they were contacted or were asked for consent since some of these patients may not be able to make decisions?

Yes I was in New Orleans, some college friends and I also drove to New York after the WTC attacks. I lost both of my parents last september when I was 25, so yes I know about living victims. If there is truely a wrong doing here, I'm sure the people that administered the cocktail will face justice. The shame will be if those people were doing the right thing, legal or not, and we persecute them. Those people may have been ASKING to just have things ended. We don't know. But of course, even if that was the case it's still illegal. IMO and in that situation, when the sky really WAS falling.... you do things you would not normally do.. not because you aren't keeping your cool, but because the situation is so drastically different from the norm. Then once things have settled down and everyone is in a safe spot... it's real easy to Monday Morning Quarterback what happened and say what people "should have done".
 
My condolences to you and your family. I wasn't playing Monday morning quaterback but would want justice if justice was deserved. No one wants to prosecute innocent people. There must be balance that is met. Just like in any profession, any place, anywhere you will have rotten apples but they don't spoil the bunch for me.
 
I don't exactly understand what it means when people throw around the line "Playing God" when referring to medical personnels taking a life no matter what the reason may be. If taking a life is play God, then what about saving a life? Is that playing God too?
Someone had to make a decision at the hospital in New Orleans at a time of emergemcy. The head of the pack had to not only be responsible for the lives of the sick, but also the lives of the workers. They had to traige the situation the best they could. I think it was a very difficult decision on their part when there was so little hope at the time. I personally don't think they did what they did for the fun of it, or because they hated those patients.
 
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This reminds me of the surgeon waiting impatiently in line at St Peter's gate when a guy in a white coat goes rushing past and through the doors into heaven. The surgeon says hey, what the hell? Why did that guy get to go straight in? I'm a doctor too, why do I have to wait in line? Oh, St. Peter says, that wasn't a doctor, that was God, he only thinks he's a doctor.

I'd like to second Fannsx's point about the nebulous nature of "playing god." It only seems to apply in a derogatory manner when "playing" = "killing folks." I've had the good fortune of saving several lives in my burgeoning career and, to date, no one's accused me of playing god...A nurse once called me a "stupid-head"...I mean, what'da ya say when someone looks you in the eye, shakes a phone at you and pronouces that, without question, yours is a stupid head?

And, on the flip side, I've kept pre-morbid, circling-the-drain patients afloat for weeks while thinking all the time that I'd have to answer for this miscarriage of care to some higher power at some point in the all too near future just because some newly arrived, just out of the wood-work long lost cousin happens to think that Grandma has a chance while I and everyone else who cares about Grandma know for damn sure that she's already dead.

What a rant.

I'm having a beer.
 
Seems to me that malicious intent could be proved simply by examining if there were other questionable cases of patient mistreatment with these folks. If not, it's safe to assume that they were acting in good faith in an emergency (although perhaps not legal).
 
I use morphine and versed in varying amounts in the operating room everyday, as does every hospital in the country. Hardly a death cocktail.
 
My involvement in the medical field is limited - First Responder, going for my EMT training next year. However, I would think that euthanasia implies some sort of consent, be it from the patient, or their power of attorney if the patient is unable to consent by physical incapaciation. That was not given here.
 
Wheelman said:
Actually he is an Attorney General, more than likely a Lawyer, but you probably don't have a 2nd degree in Law.:rolleyes:
Nope dont have a 2nd degree in law. I dont pretend to know about other subjects and blert out totally false statements just to try and get people on my side. Sad part is, people will actually think his statements are true without questioning it.
 
I am stating that he is an Attorney General, not the "Police" as you incorrectly stated. If you want then you can state that the Attorney Generals don't have 2nd degrees in Pharmacology. So your statement was the false one. We all have an appreciation of sports cars and that is what I love about this forum. I am not trying to attack anyone on this site or change anyone's beliefs or opinions. I think everyone should have different opinions, it makes the world interesting.
 
WOODY said:
I use morphine and versed in varying amounts in the operating room everyday, as does every hospital in the country. Hardly a death cocktail.
Any medication in the appropriate amount is a medicine. It can become a poison in the wrong (excessive) amount.
 
nchopp said:
My involvement in the medical field is limited - First Responder, going for my EMT training next year. However, I would think that euthanasia implies some sort of consent, be it from the patient, or their power of attorney if the patient is unable to consent by physical incapaciation. That was not given here.
We have to look at this from a legal point of view,of course. But we need to evaluate the situation from a moral point of view as well. What is morally correct may not always be legal.
I like to judge the docs and nurses from a moral point of view first.
But I am no judge.
 
Actualy I'm more interrested in why Queenlives chose to post this particular story amongst the millions of other newsworthy tales we are inundated with every day:confused:
 
Doctors?
Never met one that acted like they were God. To me they look too tired to fool around pretending they're God.
 
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