E-tracking, coming to a DMV near you

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E-tracking, coming to a DMV near you

By Declan McCullagh
http://news.com.com/E-tracking,+coming+to+a+DMV+near+you/2010-1071_3-5980979.html

Story last modified Mon Dec 05 04:00:00 PST 2005

Trust federal bureaucrats to take a good idea and transform it into a frightening proposal to track Americans wherever they drive.
The U.S. Department of Transportation has been handing millions of dollars to state governments for GPS-tracking pilot projects designed to track vehicles wherever they go. So far, Washington state and Oregon have received fat federal checks to figure out how to levy these "mileage-based road user fees."

Now electronic tracking and taxing may be coming to a DMV near you. The Office of Transportation Policy Studies, part of the Federal Highway Administration, is about to announce another round of grants totaling some $11 million. A spokeswoman on Friday said the office is "shooting for the end of the year" for the announcement, and more money is expected for GPS (Global Positioning System) tracking efforts.

In principle, the idea of what bureaucrats like to call "value pricing" for cars makes sound economic sense.

Airlines and hotels have long charged less for off-peak use. Toll roads would be more efficient--in particular, less congested--if they could follow the same model and charge virtually nothing in the middle of the night but high prices during rush hour.

That price structure would encourage drivers to take public transportation, use alternate routes, or leave earlier or later in the day.

The problem, though, is that these "road user fee" systems are being designed and built in a way that strips drivers of their privacy and invites constant surveillance by police, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security.

Zero privacy protections
Details of the tracking systems vary. But the general idea is that a small GPS device, which knows its location by receiving satellite signals, is placed inside the vehicle.

Some GPS trackers constantly communicate their location back to the state DMV, while others record the location information for later retrieval. (In the Oregon pilot project, it's beamed out wirelessly when the driver pulls into a gas station.)

The problem, though, is that no privacy protections exist. No restrictions prevent police from continually monitoring, without a court order, the whereabouts of every vehicle on the road.

No rule prohibits that massive database of GPS trails from being subpoenaed by curious divorce attorneys, or handed to insurance companies that might raise rates for someone who spent too much time at a neighborhood bar. No policy bans police from automatically sending out speeding tickets based on what the GPS data say.

The Fourth Amendment provides no protection. The U.S. Supreme Court said in two cases, U.S. v. Knotts and U.S. v. Karo, that Americans have no reasonable expectation of privacy when they're driving on a public street.

The PR offensive
Even more shocking are additional ideas that bureaucrats are hatching. A report prepared by a Transportation Department-funded program in Washington state says the GPS bugs must be made "tamper proof" and the vehicle should be disabled if the bugs are disconnected.

"This can be achieved by building in connections to the vehicle ignition circuit so that failure to receive a moving GPS signal after some default period of vehicle operation indicates attempts to defeat the GPS antenna," the report says.

It doesn't mention the worrisome scenario of someone driving a vehicle with a broken GPS bug--and an engine that suddenly quits half an hour later. But it does outline a public relations strategy (with "press releases and/or editorials" at a "very early stage") to persuade the American public that this kind of contraption would be, contrary to common sense, in their best interest.

One study prepared for the Transportation Department predicts a PR success. "Less than 7 percent of the respondents expressed concerns about recording their vehicle's movements," it says.

That whiff of victory, coupled with a windfall of new GPS-enabled tax dollars, has emboldened DMV bureaucrats. A proposal from the Oregon DMV, also funded by the Transportation Department, says that such a tracking system should be mandatory for all "newly purchased vehicles and newly registered vehicles."

The sad reality is that there are ways to perform "value pricing" for roads while preserving anonymity. You could pay cash for prepaid travel cards, like store gift cards, that would be debited when read by roadside sensors. Computer scientists have long known how to create electronic wallets--using a technique called blind signatures--that can be debited without privacy concerns.

The Transportation Department could require privacy-protective features when handing out grants for pilot projects that may eventually become mandatory. It's now even more important because a new U.S. law ups the size of the grants; the U.K. is planning GPS tracking and per-mile fees ranging between 3 cents and $2.

We'll see. But given the privacy hostility that the Transportation Department and state DMVs have demonstrated so far, don't be too optimistic.
 
Its not just about tracking your movements...in oregon(portland) they are putting in that system and not only will it tell them where you are, it will tell them how fast you are going and if your check engine lamp is on because it's connected to your OBD2 system!!....drivers in oregon will get a warning in the mail..if they don't fix the problem within a set time, then they send out a ticket for 101$ after that if you still drive the car and don't get it fixed they issue a bench warrant for your arrest!! ..no joke!......this is what we got when we adopted CAL Emission laws, they will have that type of system too.


Hopefully a legal challenge can be successful in battling this....is it 1984 yet?
 
Orwell was only a little bit early in his predictions. I wonder how long until the INS and homeland security latch onto this tech, claiming national security issues, blah, blah, blah. Interestingly, just last night I was having a discussion with my brother and his wife regarding a GPS chip for their dog, and the question arose whether or not chipping children, and then adults, will follow. Would you be willing to allow a chip in your kid to prevent kidnapping, or him getting lost, etc. ? I thought maybe, but only if it can be turned on only in an emergency. But then, who decides, and at what point will privacy abuse occur?
If they get this happening in vehicles as a matter of course, you will see the proliferation of GPS based speeding tickets. A cash cow for municipalities, which wouldn't think twice about instituting the "program" for the sake of the extra cash it would bring in.:frown:
 
12-22 Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years. Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years. The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts. By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites. Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank. Senior police officers have described the surveillance network as possibly the biggest advance in the technology of crime detection and prevention since the introduction of DNA fingerprinting. But others concerned about civil liberties will be worried that the movements of millions of law-abiding people will soon be routinely recorded and kept on a central computer database for years. The new national data centre of vehicle movements will form the basis of a sophisticated surveillance tool that lies at the heart of an operation designed to drive criminals off the road. In the process, the data centre will provide unrivalled opportunities to gather intelligence data on the movements and associations of organised gangs and terrorist suspects whenever they use cars, vans or motorcycles. The scheme is being orchestrated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) and has the full backing of ministers who have sanctioned the spending of £24m this year on equipment. More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network. Chief constables are also on the verge of brokering agreements with the Highways Agency, supermarkets and petrol station owners to incorporate their own CCTV cameras into the network. In addition to cross-checking each number plate against stolen and suspect vehicles held on the Police National Computer, the national data centre will also check whether each vehicle is lawfully licensed, insured and has a valid MoT test certificate. "Every time you make a car journey already, you'll be on CCTV somewhere. The difference is that, in future, the car's index plates will be read as well," said Frank Whiteley, Chief Constable of Hertfordshire and chairman of the Acpo steering committee on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR). "What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said. The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained. According to a strategy document drawn up by Acpo, the national data centre in Hendon will be at the heart of a surveillance operation that should deny criminals the use of the roads. "The intention is to create a comprehensive ANPR camera and reader infrastructure across the country to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured," the Acpo strategy says. "This development forms the basis of a 24/7 vehicle movement database that will revolutionise arrest, intelligence and crime investigation opportunities on a national basis," it says. Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said. "The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent." Nick Note the days of freedom of individuals are rapidly coming to an end. Most people will not even figure it out when the tracking chip (mandatory) is inserted in their hand or forehead. This is not about crime, its not about terrorism its about control of the masses absolute, complete and total control. Welcome to hell on earth and our mindless rush to make slaves of the masses. Hitler has a hard on as he fries in hell. Imagine what he could have done with all this new technology. That's OK if you do not understand, you will not have to imagine long


Gary
 
Pacemaker Kid89 said:
This would be okay I geuss, if they kill taxes for gas


NO NO NO! it's not "OK"...It will NEVER be "OK"...the government watching you everywhere you go and sending you tickets in the mail when your check engine lamp is on???.....NO, NOT OK!!!
 
ok then...

VIVA LA RISTANCE! lets kick some DMV ass! I'll get my, my, my, my BAT! and you can get your (something very powerful) and we can start and anti DMV movement!
 
Pacemaker Kid89 said:
ok then...

VIVA LA RISTANCE! lets kick some DMV ass! I'll get my, my, my, my BAT! and you can get your (something very powerful) and we can start and anti DMV movement!

Read these books and report back.

Anthem:Ann Rand
1984:Goerge Orwell
Fahrenheit 421: Ray Bradbury
One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich:Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn
 
Most "patriots" in this country really don't know what "freedom" and "constitution" really mean. They just want to see a guy in a cowboy hat say he's going to kill muslims.

zahntech said:
NO NO NO! it's not "OK"...It will NEVER be "OK"...the government watching you everywhere you go and sending you tickets in the mail when your check engine lamp is on???.....NO, NOT OK!!!
 
You know what's funny....There are no Toll roads in WA or OR...and I can think of only one bridge (Bridge of the Gods that costs $.75) to cross that has a toll.

Must be for emissions...that sucks.
 
Mike Hughes said:
Most "patriots" in this country really don't know what "freedom" and "constitution" really mean. They just want to see a guy in a cowboy hat say he's going to kill muslims.




There needs to be a balance of public good/safety VS personal privicy...this type in system goes way beyond that balance IMO..

if an OBD2 car has a problem with its Torque converter lock up system it will set a check engine lamp on....do you really think that the government needs to put people in jail to protect you from somebody's Torque converter??
 
The problem with any sort of tracking system is that it will inevitably be abused and used for purposes it was not intended for, on people who are not breaking the law, but are merely suspected of doing so.

Which ties into a current event, the wiretap/interception of domestic communications by the NSA.

I mean... are you KIDDING ME? The NSA is spying on citizens of this country, without warrants and without accountability, and the administration is insisting this is a GOOD thing?

I don't buy it for a second, and if the citizens let it slide, it will be a slippery slope indeed. We'll see.

zahntech said:
There needs to be a balance of public good/safety VS personal privicy...this type in system goes way beyond that balance IMO..

if an OBD2 car has a problem with its Torque converter lock up system it will set a check engine lamp on....do you really think that the government needs to put people in jail to protect you from somebody's Torque converter??
 
zahntech said:
There needs to be a balance of public good/safety VS personal privicy...this type in system goes way beyond that balance IMO..

if an OBD2 car has a problem with its Torque converter lock up system it will set a check engine lamp on....do you really think that the government needs to put people in jail to protect you from somebody's Torque converter??


I am not saying this will be a great system and I would oppose anything that is monitoring your speed or location without a court order or warrant. If this type of system could be turned on with a warrant, then it would stop vehicle theft, car jacking, etc... and could help with kidnappings, robberies, etc... This could be a huge tool for law enforcement if used properly.

As far as sending somebody to jail for a torque converter, don't you think that a system that was tied into the OBD2 connector would be able to determine if the problem was effecting emmisions? I see cars on the road all the time that are spewing so much oil and other emmisions into the air it is crazy. A few times I have mentioned something to them and they all said "you want to pay to fix it?". These type of individuals are only going to fix / repair their cars if it is required by law. I would guess that a very small percentage of cars are responsible for the majority of the emmisions.

The technology is coming, in my opinion it is better to try and find a way to manage it then try to stick you head in the sand and hope it will go away. Many cars already have a way of being tracked and many people install other systems so that their car can be tracked. As long as they aren't tracking your movements for no reason I don't have a problem with the technology.
 
Yeah, so my last post was very smart. But lets say they go deeper, like they would be able to see how much HP we have and such. Once they see some of our figures going way up with mods they might penilize us. I know this is an idea but you never know.
 
Carguy! said:
As far as sending somebody to jail for a torque converter, don't you think that a system that was tied into the OBD2 connector would be able to determine if the problem was effecting emmisions? .


In the State of washington if your check engine lamp is on for any reason you will fail the Emissions test....so no they don't care why the light is on....

I really enjoy telling people that their 99 Subaru outback failed the Emissions test because their center differential lock up solenoid has an open or short in it....:rolleyes:


Government at its best!
 
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Despite what the department of transportation's studies say, I would guess the majority of citizens would be against having their every movement tracked and stored in a government database. It's just that upto this point, there hasn't been a public debate on the subject. According to the article, Washington and Oregon are leading the way in this area. As a resident of Washington, this greatly concerns me.

We should organize a group in Washington and/or Oregon to fight this before the concept gains anymore traction, lest we end up like the UK-- a government funding programs against the will of the people under the guise scare tactics (i.e. "it will reduce crime") and the apathy of the people (i.e. "the people are too stupid, it's for their own good".) Washington State has an initiative process whereby if a grass roots group can get enough signatures, they can force an issue to appear on the ballot even if the lawmakers don't want to deal with it. For example, this process has been used successfully in the past to roll-back gas taxes that lawmakers had previously enacted.

I know everyone hates a gas tax, but this tracking issue is a far greater threat to freedom than any gas tax. Does anyone have any thoughts or knowledge on how to go about fighting this using the state initiative process or would it require an amendment to the state's constitution?
 
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