Ebay NSX Discrepancy

[Viper Driver]

Hello all-

I was looking at a nice-looking 1992 Red/Black NSX on Ebay and decided to go ahead and run the CarFax report on it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1833480257

The seller claims that there is 28000 miles on the car. However, the CarFax shows that the car was over 30,000 miles as far back as 1997! Now, my question is: Am I reading the CarFax wrong, or does the seller of this car owe an explanation?


Charles
---------------------------------------------

VIN: JH4NA1158NT000044
Year/Make/Model: 1992 ACURA NSX

Body Style: COUPE
Engine: 3.0L V6 PFI DOHC 24V
Fuel: GASOLINE
Driveline: REAR WHEEL DRIVE
Carburetion: FUEL INJECTED
Cylinders: 6
Manufactured in: JAPAN







GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results confirm this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1158NT000044) qualifies for the CARFAX FREE $5,000 Clean Title History Guarantee.


CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's title history to determine if any title documents were designated or marked with the following problems:

Problem Titles Checked: Results:
Salvage/Junk Checked - No Salvage/Junk Title Found
Rebuilt/Reconstructed Checked - No Rebuilt/Reconstructed Title Found
Flood Damage Checked - No Flood Damage Title Found
Damage Disclosure Checked - No Damage Disclosure Found
Manufacturer Buyback (LEMON) Checked - No Manufacturer Buyback Found
Exceeds Mechanical Limits (EML) Checked - No EML Found
Not Actual Mileage (NAM) Checked - No NAM Found

NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.




GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results on this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1158NT000044) did not uncover a potential odometer rollback. CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's reported odometer readings to determine if any reading is less than a previously reported reading.

Date Reported: Odometer Reading:
10/01/1992 54

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/19/1995 16,958

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02/04/1997 30,367

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

03/26/2001 30,520 Reported on 02/07/1997




GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results on this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1158NT000044) did not uncover any of the following problems:

Problems Checked: Results:
Accident Checked - No Accident Record Found
Salvage Auction Checked - No Salvage Auction Record Found
Failed Emissions Inspection Checked - No Failed Emissions Record Found
Fire Damage Checked - No Fire Damage Record Found
Crash Test Vehicle Checked - No Crash Test Vehicle Record Found
Grey Market Vehicle Checked - No Grey Market Vehicle Record Found
NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.



CARFAX search results on this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1158NT000044) identify the types of state motor vehicle department registrations, other than private, that appear in this vehicle's history.

Registrations Checked: Results:
Lease Checked - No Lease Registration Found
Rental Checked - No Rental Registration Found
Government Checked - No Government Registration Found
Taxi Checked - No Taxi Registration Found
Fleet Checked - No Fleet Registration Found
Commercial Checked - No Commercial Registration Found
Non-Profit Checked - No Non-Profit Registration Found
NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.






The CARFAX database contains a total of 10 vehicle history records on this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1158NT000044):


DATE
REPORTED ODOMETER
READING INFORMATION
SOURCE GENERAL
COMMENTS
10/01/1992 54 South Carolina
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Columbia, SC
Title #02329271A
Registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/31/1994 South Carolina
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Columbia, SC
Title #02329271A
Registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/19/1995 16,958 South Carolina
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Columbia, SC
Title #02485592B
Registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/27/1996 South Carolina
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Columbia, SC
Title #02485592B
Registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/29/1997 South Carolina
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Columbia, SC
Title #02485592B
Registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02/04/1997 30,367 Auto Auction
Southeast Region
Vehicle sold


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02/28/1997 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Neptune Beach, FL
Title #72069819
Title issued
Ownership transfer reported
First lien reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

03/24/1997 Service Plan Co.
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Service Contract Issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

05/02/1998 Florida
Inspection Station
Jacksonville, FL
Passed emissions inspection


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

03/26/2001 30,520 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Title #0072069819
Title issued
Odometer reading recorded on 02/07/1997


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06/01/2002 Edmunds.com Manufacturer-Recommended Maintenance Schedules

Check this vehicle's service schedules, estimated costs and recall notices at Edmunds.com.

 

[Viper Driver]

Here's another one! This one supposedly has 27045 miles, but it's CarFax shows 36,554 miles on 7/2/2001.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1832939771&r=0&t=0

---------------------------------------------


VIN: JH4NA1155MT001666
Year/Make/Model: 1991 ACURA NSX

Body Style: COUPE
Engine: 3.0L V6 PFI DOHC 24V
Fuel: GASOLINE
Driveline: REAR WHEEL DRIVE
Carburetion: FUEL INJECTED
Cylinders: 6
Manufactured in: JAPAN







GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results confirm this 1991 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1155MT001666) qualifies for the CARFAX FREE $5,000 Clean Title History Guarantee.


CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's title history to determine if any title documents were designated or marked with the following problems:

Problem Titles Checked: Results:
Salvage/Junk Checked - No Salvage/Junk Title Found
Rebuilt/Reconstructed Checked - No Rebuilt/Reconstructed Title Found
Flood Damage Checked - No Flood Damage Title Found
Damage Disclosure Checked - No Damage Disclosure Found
Manufacturer Buyback (LEMON) Checked - No Manufacturer Buyback Found
Exceeds Mechanical Limits (EML) Checked - No EML Found
Not Actual Mileage (NAM) Checked - No NAM Found

NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.




GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results on this 1991 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1155MT001666) did not uncover a potential odometer rollback. CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's reported odometer readings to determine if any reading is less than a previously reported reading.

Date Reported: Odometer Reading:
04/04/1991 19

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/02/1998 9,200

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06/24/1998 12,400

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11/06/1998 12,500

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/04/1999 14,764

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

04/20/2000 21,896

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06/02/2000 24,691

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

07/02/2001 36,554




GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results on this 1991 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1155MT001666) did not uncover any of the following problems:

Problems Checked: Results:
Accident Checked - No Accident Record Found
Salvage Auction Checked - No Salvage Auction Record Found
Failed Emissions Inspection Checked - No Failed Emissions Record Found
Fire Damage Checked - No Fire Damage Record Found
Crash Test Vehicle Checked - No Crash Test Vehicle Record Found
Grey Market Vehicle Checked - No Grey Market Vehicle Record Found
NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.



CARFAX search results on this 1991 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1155MT001666) identify the types of state motor vehicle department registrations, other than private, that appear in this vehicle's history.

Registrations Checked: Results:
Lease Checked - No Lease Registration Found
Rental Checked - No Rental Registration Found
Government Checked - No Government Registration Found
Taxi Checked - No Taxi Registration Found
Fleet Checked - No Fleet Registration Found
Commercial Checked - No Commercial Registration Found
Non-Profit Checked - No Non-Profit Registration Found
NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.






The CARFAX database contains a total of 12 vehicle history records on this 1991 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1155MT001666):


DATE
REPORTED ODOMETER
READING INFORMATION
SOURCE GENERAL
COMMENTS
04/04/1991 19 Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Port Arthur, TX
Title #30590182
Title or registration issued
First owner reported
First lien reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/02/1998 9,200 Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Beaumont, TX
Title #12331435784161824
Title or registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06/24/1998 12,400 Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Redondo Beach, CA
Title #12331235959161108
Title or registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/31/1998 Texas
Inspection Station
Houston, TX
Passed emissions inspection


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11/06/1998 12,500 Texas
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Friendswood, TX
Title #10167136094103123
Title or registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/04/1999 14,764 Texas
Inspection Station
Houston, TX
Passed emissions inspection


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

04/20/2000 21,896 Pennsylvania
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Bala Cynwyd, PA
Title #54590078 01 DO
Title or registration issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

05/07/2000 Inspection Co.
New York
Vehicle Inspected
Anti-theft device present
at the time of inspection


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

05/16/2000 Pennsylvania
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Bala Cynwyd, PA
Title #54590078 01 DO
Title or registration issued
Duplicate title issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06/02/2000 24,691 New York
Inspection Station
New York City Area
Passed safety inspection
Passed emissions inspection


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

08/04/2000 New York
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Massapequa, NY
Title issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

07/02/2001 36,554 New York
Inspection Station
New York City Area
Passed safety inspection
Passed emissions inspection


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06/01/2002 Edmunds.com Manufacturer-Recommended Maintenance Schedules

Check this vehicle's service schedules, estimated costs and recall notices at Edmunds.com

 

[Timbo]

*#$%^%!!
Nice catch, and thanks for the heads up. It is hard enough shopping for a good used NSX, and then you see things like this. Just awful, makes you want to give up and just buy a new Boxster instead.

Back when I was shopping for my last 911, the warning was that it was very easy to reach right in and grab the tach (w/ built-in odometer ) and yank it out, replace it w/ another, and run up mileage on that one. Then when you want to sell the car, you just pop the original back in.

Whattya think guys, how rampant is odometer fraud in the used NSX market? I mean, the difference betw. a 30K mi car and a 60K is thousands of $$$, not to mention you can "ignore" the timing belt..

Let me add that complete documentation of vehicle history is nice, but its no proof of actual mileage, as the rollbacks could be done incrementally..

 

[gobble]

Is it possible to disconnect the NSX odometer and run up the mileage without it showing? I would hope Honda would protect against this.

 

[Viper Driver]

I've e-mailed both of the sellers. I hope that there is some sort of typo (VIN or odometer) responsible for this. In the case of the second car above, I find it hard to believe that a high-end car dealer (Premier Ferrari) would try to sell this car with such an easy-to-find discrepancy in it's advertising. They advertise a good return policy, though, and it sounds like the purchase would be fairly safe.

Chuck

[This message has been edited by Viper Driver (edited 01 June 2002).]

 

[NSX UNITED]

I bet none of the sellers will return your emails. They're just trying to con a few extra grand from careless buyers.

 

[soundworkz]

There has been a post going around questioning the validity of my ebay auction. I am working around the clock to try and clarify some of these issues. These questions are just as suprising to me as they are to you.

I am not the owner of this car just the seller. However, I am taking full control of the auction and payment/transaction process.
For now, just sit back and let me do my job in trying to get these questions answered with the owner. If at any time I feel that this is a non-legit operation I will terminate auction immediatly since this sale has a direct impact on my credibility.

Do not bid if you do not feel comfortable with the terms of auction! There is still plenty of time, and I assure you I am doing my best in trying to resolve solve of these issues.

These are important issues that have been brought up but unless you are actually considering buying the car, please leave your questions and comments to yourself, or email me if you have nothing better to do. Peace

 

[Lud]

If you recognize that there are issues which need to be clarified about this car, the ethical thing to do is either:
(1) Add a note to that effect to the auction or;
(2) Cancel this auction and re-list it when the issues are resolved


Notes to anyone considering that car:

1. Based on some things I can barely make out in the low-res and blurry photos, if I were buying that car I would also want to inspect it for front end repair work.

2. I would also inspect the car for paint work. Again the photos are so poor it is hard to be certain, but I see signs which typically indicate a repaint.

3. The terms of the auction sound a little odd as well: "Details of delivery will be disclosed after auction closes." Secret delivery methods.... Yikes.

4. If I were bidding I'd get everything clarified by having the seller ad the information TO THE AUCTION ON EBAY - an e-mail from the seller does not offer any real protection. Even then, considering the seller's feedback record, I'd be a bit nervous.

Gee, there sure are a lot of "great deals" on eBay....

Hopefully someone will e-mail all high bidders a link to this thread.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 02 June 2002).]

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by soundworkz:
unless you are actually considering buying the car, please leave your questions and comments to yourself

You must be new in town. That's generally not the way things work around here...

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[johndoh]

Originally posted by Lud:
Notes to anyone considering that car:

1. Based on some things I can barely make out in the low-res and blurry photos, if I were buying that car I would also want to inspect it for front end repair work.

2. I would also inspect the car for paint work. Again the photos are so poor it is hard to be certain, but I see signs which typically indicate a repaint.

For a "mint condition" NSX, it also seems to be missing the front lip and the rear bumper doesn't seem to match up with the rest of the paint...

 

[westernb4]

Hey, mileage doesn't really matter, does it?--the car is advertised in the "For Sale" section of nsxsc.com as having 26000 (!) miles.

26000, 28000, maybe 88000?

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by soundworkz:


These are important issues that have been brought up but unless you are actually considering buying the car, please leave your questions and comments to yourself, or email me if you have nothing better to do. Peace

I assume that you don't know how many of the forum members do try to keep a check on used NSX cars in the market place. Were not over-reactional when something doesn't look quite right and from what i've seen as a new owner of a NSX, fairly reasonable. Viper Driver appears to be interested in the car and some of the more knowledgeable owners are just helping. Its common for other owners to help in a buying proccess at times when asked. Go look @ the post in this forum from NetViper recently under Awsome deal on Ebay. Thats what we don't want happening.

 

[sabashioyaki]

This NSX is from Erzcars, and has previously had an engine fire. The Ebay pics are the exact same as the pics on Erz. I don't know how the title is showing up clean. Someone also tried selling this NSX before on Ebay.

Someone also tried to sell Erz's 98 on Ebay before saying it also had a clean title.

I think some people are trying to sell these cars for more than Erz is asking and then keep the difference. Or Erz themselves might be trying to unload the cars.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by sabashioyaki:
This NSX is from Erzcars, and has previously had an engine fire. The Ebay pics are the exact same as the pics on Erz.

Good eye sabashioyaki! This is, indeed, the same car offered by ERZ @ $28,000 - a long way from the "buy it now" on Ebay of $36,000!


------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Look at the background in the pictures.
It says enough.
Add the comment from the seller on the forum, and you know you don't wanna buy that.

Dutchy

 

[Lud]

Well well... the truth comes out.

In addition to the different-color rear bumper, another telltale sign of a poor repaint is the overspray in the right rear wheel well.

The front is missing the emblem, tow hook cover and lower spoiler, indicating there there is a good chance there was front end work too.

Add the odomoter discrepancy and the engine fire and... yikes.

Tell us again how you are diligently trying to resolve these issues, soundworkz (aka [email protected])... You obviously knew the story on this car before you listed it on eBay because you had to call ERZ to get the VIN #.

So don't come here telling us to keep our questions to ourselves. The entire point of this community is to help protect ourselves from people like you!

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 03 June 2002).]

 

[mikec]

Well done LUD, and others!!

In my short search for an NSX I've encountered way too many shady people and cars with "stories" It took alot of the fun out of the process. This forum is a great information and protection tool used by the ethical people who love these cars, and cars in general.

Keep up the good work, and make it difficult for "cheats" to make a fast buck.

------------------
keep the shiny side up
MikeC 01 #46

 

[Griffen]

Very well done and a bump for all to see the NSX "NOT" to buy...

 

[Viper Driver]

Heck, I'm still searching for an NSX!

[This message has been edited by Viper Driver (edited 03 June 2002).]

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by mikec:


In my short search for an NSX I've encountered way too many shady people and cars with "stories" It took alot of the fun out of the process. This forum is a great information and protection tool used by the ethical people who love these cars, and cars in general.

Keep up the good work, and make it difficult for "cheats" to make a fast buck.

In case you don't know. The Viper Driver whom started this tread serves our country as a pilot in the Air National Gaurd. I'm sure he is not looking for any special treatment on this forum, but he helps protect the freedom that we all live under, even the people involved in the car sale in question, he protects yours as well. Try to remember that. Also here is the post I mentioned http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004838.html[URL]
It appears another car could be mis-represented here as well.




[This message has been edited by Tom Larkins (edited 03 June 2002).]

 

[NSF]

hey all - the soundworks eBay auction is mentioned here at nsxsc (where one can still cringe at the ravings of you-know-who)

here be the LINK

i'm not registered there as a poster & thus couldn't post a heads-up, but if any of you dual citizens wanna post a warning or a link back here - now you know, so you can...

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by scott s:
hey all - the soundworks eBay auction is mentioned here at nsxsc (where one can still cringe at the ravings of you-know-who)

here be the LINK

i'm not registered there as a poster & thus couldn't post a heads-up, but if any of you dual citizens wanna post a warning or a link back here - now you know, so you can...

Done

 

[NSF]

look - i don't know nothin' about birthin' no babies - and i don't wanna be ratfinkian or throw racing fuel on the fire of what could end up being a witch hunt, BUT

can't someone just forward all of this info to eBay?

is this advisable?
is this doable?
would it do any good?

i mean, the eBay autos thingie is in cahoots with Auto Trader & all & so they must be kinda interested in, and have the power to do something about, situations of this type...

okay, now i'm up to four cents.

ps - by "situations of this type" i mean any car for sale which has controversy surrounding one of its key details - in this case, the car's mileage - i am not calling anyone any names, i just think that all information should be available thru all outlets - i would recommend an objective summarry of this discussion, or a link to this thread ON THE AUCTION PAGE ITSELF - as a seller, that's what i'd do, just to avoid even a hint of the appearance of any shenannigans...

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by scott s:
look - i don't know nothin' about birthin' no babies - and i don't wanna be ratfinkian or throw racing fuel on the fire of what could end up being a witch hunt, BUT

can't someone just forward all of this info to eBay?

After all of this came to light I read carefully through the types of things that Ebay investigates: there is NOTHING indicating that they give a rat's whisker about anything that is being selectively (creatively?) described.
As for soundworkz - anyone who can post an auction describing this car as "perfect" and then come here telling us to mind our own business deserves a good

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[Viper Driver]

I've sent an e-mail to Ebay about this, and I've sent a letter to the high bidder as well (Garrett Motors out of Houston.)

On a side note, I got an E-mail from Premier about their NSX (the second one above) and they say that the discrepancy is due to a service person inputting the wrong mileage (36k instead of 26k or something like that) when it was in for servicing/inspection. I thought that repairing bad info on a credit report was hard........how in the hell do you get that fixed on the CarFax report?