I have one track day on these tires so far.They are 235/40/17-275/40/17 and I drove them to lime rock ~ 180 miles each way.The trip going was all rain.They are shaved to 4/32.On the hwy in the wet no problems up to ~80mph.They are quiet,and comfortable.Not too much thumping over irregularities.On track they are very nice.The track was cool all day,as it never got above 60 deg.I was driving about 8/10 given it was the first track day,plus the temps plus I was worried about a leaking koni shock,and despite all that I was only 1.5 sec off my best times last season on pirelli p-0-c and yoko a023r.They have better grip then those others and are just as communicative about break away.These will now be my prefered track tire,until michelin makes sport cups in those sizes.BTW I watched speed gt from sebring and they showed the new tires up close(which are suposed to be ra-1)but they looked nothing like mine,unless they shave them to 1 or 0-32 since I saw no cross tread.
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First impressions of toyo ra-1
- Thread starter docjohn
- Start date
I think I'll be trying the Toyo's a little later on this season. As a kind of competitive "control" tire among my DE event buddies. I'm interested what kind of grain the tires showed after your event.
I put a scrubb session on my Ecsta's this past weekend. They all showed a pretty fine grain except the right front, which indicated that it was being overworked. I too was about a second off of my best time.
The Speed GT race was pretty good! Glad to see a Corvette finally win but sad, really sad, to see PD not campaign the NSX. Maybe when the next version comes out. The RA-1's that everyone was using looked like an F1 tire! Didn't realize that they could be shaved that deep.
I put a scrubb session on my Ecsta's this past weekend. They all showed a pretty fine grain except the right front, which indicated that it was being overworked. I too was about a second off of my best time.
The Speed GT race was pretty good! Glad to see a Corvette finally win but sad, really sad, to see PD not campaign the NSX. Maybe when the next version comes out. The RA-1's that everyone was using looked like an F1 tire! Didn't realize that they could be shaved that deep.
Ponyboy said:
BTW, these tires are available in a variety of sizes, including the '91-93 OEM sizes that you can put on cheap sets of '91-93 OEM wheels and fit in the car so you don't have to drive on them to the track.
Is it just me, or do these two tires look like they have very similar tread patterns?
Tire Number 1:
Tire Number 2:
I race on the ra-1's and have to say that I am very impressed. I have them shaved to a dept of 3 or 4 32nd's, which is a depth to where only the center 2 bars are exposed. they last a very long time, I have about 20 heat cycles into them in race conditions before they are done. also they are not directional, I cant remember how much camber you run on the nsx but these tires can be flipped. take it easy the first session out after they are flipped, but after that they are as good as ever.
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I have recently completed another two track days at the glen on these and the first day was wet and cold.Day two was cold and damp-dry.My ra-1's are shaved -4/32 and I was very impressed with their grip and wear.I don't see much wear after 1000m 280 of which is track,I'll keep you posted.
Just beware, if you're using these tires in the stock '91-93 sizes (which a lot of us are, since the stock wheels are so plentiful and inexpensive and light), that there is a huge nationwide back-order on the 205/50-15 size.
Also, they are not sold by either Tire Rack or Discount Tire (tires.com). I found that it's worth comparing prices at Talon Tire; you may find that their prices are low enough that you save money, even with higher shipping across the border. Beware of currency fluctuations, though. All written up in this topic.
Dealers that carry them include:
Talon Tire (Canada - QC) 514-337-0833
Radial Tire (MD) 301-585-2740
1010tires.com (Canada - BC) 888-825-MAGS
Sports Car Tire (DE) 800-752-TIRE
Appalachian Race Tire (TN) 865-681-6622
CJ's Tires (PA) 610-404-0224
OnLineTires.com (???) 877-465-8473
Also, they are not sold by either Tire Rack or Discount Tire (tires.com). I found that it's worth comparing prices at Talon Tire; you may find that their prices are low enough that you save money, even with higher shipping across the border. Beware of currency fluctuations, though. All written up in this topic.
Dealers that carry them include:
Talon Tire (Canada - QC) 514-337-0833
Radial Tire (MD) 301-585-2740
1010tires.com (Canada - BC) 888-825-MAGS
Sports Car Tire (DE) 800-752-TIRE
Appalachian Race Tire (TN) 865-681-6622
CJ's Tires (PA) 610-404-0224
OnLineTires.com (???) 877-465-8473
RA-1
I also use Toyo RA-1 shaved to 4/32. I spend May 10-11 at Watkins Glen, sunny Saturday, slightly overcasted on Sunday. The tires worked great. Gave me more speed through turn six, eight and nine. Started at 33psi on all four corners, fooled around with the pressure during Saturday, kept it at 33psi cold, 39-41 psi hot on Sunday. So far, I'm happy and no tire noise.
I also use Toyo RA-1 shaved to 4/32. I spend May 10-11 at Watkins Glen, sunny Saturday, slightly overcasted on Sunday. The tires worked great. Gave me more speed through turn six, eight and nine. Started at 33psi on all four corners, fooled around with the pressure during Saturday, kept it at 33psi cold, 39-41 psi hot on Sunday. So far, I'm happy and no tire noise.
Does shaving give you the longevity effects of heat cycling, or did you heat-cycle them yourself ??docjohn said:
Anyone using these with the 18" sizes yet ?? IIRC SC-WC was supposed to get a commitment from Toyo to get more 18" sizes.
Shaving reduces the tread block and helps prevent chunking during track driving. The Toyos RA-1's do not need heat cycling, but do get slightly faster as you wear them down to near-slick condition. They will then perform consistent all the way down to the cord.
I've been running T1-s for a while now and plan on trying out the RA-1s as soon as my current tires wear out.
I got my Toyos from miata guy and ex NSX owner Aaron Tachiabana.
You can check out his prices at:
http://www.m-pca.com/tires_toyo.html
Otto
I got my Toyos from miata guy and ex NSX owner Aaron Tachiabana.
You can check out his prices at:
http://www.m-pca.com/tires_toyo.html
Otto
Guys, I have used the Toto ra1 for a bout two years. They are good tires, but they are only good for the first two weekends. You can use them for a long time, but they get very hard and lose all most all of the grip on the track after that. Plenty of tread left, even if you get shaved tires, just no grip. With regard to the Michelins! Don't waste your money! I bought a set for $925.00. I used them once, toyo was a much better track tire. The michelins are now my street/rainy track tires! The side walls on the Michelins are very soft, tires are way too flexible for the track. Stick with Hooiers or Kumhos. Hoosirer also makes a world cup tire, it lasts a lot longer than regular Hoosiers and grip is not bad! They are hard to get though!
I have a third event coming up,but I've put 3 track days on these tires so far, and They feel consistant so far.I can't believe that these tires would loose grip and harden after only two days of heat cycles.The old ao32r's which are notorious for outlasting thier usefullness due to too many heat cycles vs long tread life still lasted me about 6 event-rears.What Michilens are you talking about?If its the sport cups I beg to differ,they are fabulous on my s2000,they just don't come in nsx friendly sizes yet.
I ran these tire on my 93 rx7, not the NSX. I push the car very hard. The Michelins sport cups were not up to the challenge. I used them one weekend, they were 2 seconds slower than worn Toyo's, and 4 seconds slower than new Hoosiers. These were Brand new Michelin sport Cups as well! I am a big Michelin fan, but unless you want a commbination long lasting low to moderate grip tire, this tire is not for you. If you don't compare times, it is very difficult to tell how much slower they are. Look up the specs on the sport cup, the side walls are no where near as stiff as the Toyo's. With regard to the Toyo's my tires starting squeeling on both sets I tried and the times seem to drop 2 seconds or so after two track weekends. None of this is set in stone, but just what I experienced. Everyone has their own opinion and experence with tires. Good Luck!
JDRAGO1
Sorry, I read it twice....Are you saying that you like the Toyo's or are you implying that you like the Hoosiers the best?
I understand that the Michelin's weren't up to the job.
Sorry, I read it twice....Are you saying that you like the Toyo's or are you implying that you like the Hoosiers the best?
I understand that the Michelin's weren't up to the job.
Sorry, I read it again and it is a little confusing. Hoosiers are definitley the fastest tire, no doubt, but they come with a big compromise on tread life. You will get two or three weekends out of Hoosiers before they wear to the cords, they have great grip all the way down. You can wear a set of Hoosiers in one weekend! With regard to the Toyos, I liked them a lot at first, but for whatever reason after two or three weekends the grip went down to that of a normal street tire in my opinion, definitely acording to the stop watch. So If the Toyo's grip level stayed consistent from start to finish, I think they would be great! But in my car they lost grip, so I would just assume buy the Hoosiers and let them wear out with great grip throughout their lifespan than buy the Toyo's and through away hard tires with a lot of tread eft on them. But I would much rather run the Toyo's than the Michelins, I really thought they were horrible. Hope that clears it up!
Thanks for clearing that up. Per Doc's question...did you have them shaved?
docJohn, do you have any rubbing problems with running 235/40/17s up front? You have lowered suspension as well, right?
RA-1 vs SO-3 in the wet
Just a small feedback given my experiences running RA-1s in the rain today at Infineon.
Today was the first event in which I tried to run RA-1's, I was at Infineon as part of the HPDE that was happening alongside the OTC event.
I'm running 205/40/17's and 275/35/18's in the rear (33/35psi), full tread. (Can't get the 18's shaved at AIM). I had looked at the forecast and knew that there was possibility of rain today, but I figured that full tread RA-1 would be good enough. The day started with a slight drizzle that turned into a bit of rain by the time that the HPDE group got on track.
I've run Infineon in the rain 4 other times with my SO-3s and can usually go about 65% to 70% of my dry speed with the SO-3's driving the wet line and staying off the berms.
Since it was my first time running with RA-1s in the rain, I took it really easy for the first couple of laps going maybe 50% of my usual pace. Right away it became aparent that the amount of water evacuation on the RA-1s is a lot less than the SO-3. I felt the car losing traction on parts of the track that had barely any meaningful amount of standing water, hydroplaning both in the front as well as the back of the car (on turns 3, 5, 8, 8a, 9 and 10). I was able to catch the car several times, but finally ended up spinning after the apex of turn 2, the car lost complete traction on the rear because of the offcamber nature of the turn, I was at neutral throttle, so I don't think that it was a power oversteer, no amount of countersteering helped to correct the slide, thus resulting in a spin. Fortunately it was a relatively slow spin around 40-45mph and I managed to keep the car on the track by going both feet in. It was the very first time that I've had a spin at Infineon, after 9 track events there pretty much know the track by heart and know both the dry and the wet lines there.
What I found very amusing about this experience is that I had heard so many folks commenting that full tread RA-1's are good in the rain, but given my experience, I'm starting to wonder..
First I thought that going with 275's in the back might have made things worse, but given that the front end was also not getting enough traction makes me think that that was not the case.
So for now on I'll stick to the SO-3's for the wet, that way I won't have any surprises
. I've driven close to 10 events in the wet with the SO-3's and they work great! .
Just a small feedback given my experiences running RA-1s in the rain today at Infineon.
Today was the first event in which I tried to run RA-1's, I was at Infineon as part of the HPDE that was happening alongside the OTC event.
I'm running 205/40/17's and 275/35/18's in the rear (33/35psi), full tread. (Can't get the 18's shaved at AIM). I had looked at the forecast and knew that there was possibility of rain today, but I figured that full tread RA-1 would be good enough. The day started with a slight drizzle that turned into a bit of rain by the time that the HPDE group got on track.
I've run Infineon in the rain 4 other times with my SO-3s and can usually go about 65% to 70% of my dry speed with the SO-3's driving the wet line and staying off the berms.
Since it was my first time running with RA-1s in the rain, I took it really easy for the first couple of laps going maybe 50% of my usual pace. Right away it became aparent that the amount of water evacuation on the RA-1s is a lot less than the SO-3. I felt the car losing traction on parts of the track that had barely any meaningful amount of standing water, hydroplaning both in the front as well as the back of the car (on turns 3, 5, 8, 8a, 9 and 10). I was able to catch the car several times, but finally ended up spinning after the apex of turn 2, the car lost complete traction on the rear because of the offcamber nature of the turn, I was at neutral throttle, so I don't think that it was a power oversteer, no amount of countersteering helped to correct the slide, thus resulting in a spin. Fortunately it was a relatively slow spin around 40-45mph and I managed to keep the car on the track by going both feet in. It was the very first time that I've had a spin at Infineon, after 9 track events there pretty much know the track by heart and know both the dry and the wet lines there.
What I found very amusing about this experience is that I had heard so many folks commenting that full tread RA-1's are good in the rain, but given my experience, I'm starting to wonder..
First I thought that going with 275's in the back might have made things worse, but given that the front end was also not getting enough traction makes me think that that was not the case.
So for now on I'll stick to the SO-3's for the wet, that way I won't have any surprises
. I've driven close to 10 events in the wet with the SO-3's and they work great! .docjohn, has your opinion of the ra1 changed at all since this thread was fresh?
I raced on Toyo RA1 for 2 years now and like them a lot. They are th emost consistent tire throughout their lifetime compare to others. In fact they get their best form when they are at slick form. This is also the longest lasting R compound tire I have ever used. The whole year, I only used 2 sets. One started life as full tread, and the other as shaved. This year, all started as shaved, and I anticipate of using 3 sets. Keep in mind I race at least once a month.
Hoosier only good for 1 weekends, after that they degrade for about .3 sec every each cycle. We ran this on the NSX for a while, and still have them on. Fastest DOT legal tire.
Kumho is probably the worse tire for race situation. It is great for time trial, as it is faster than Toyo RA1, until about 15 minutes into the race, and they start to get greasy. But the price is right for weekend school, or HPDE event.
I really like Michelin. Other than the price, they are great tire. Stickier than the RA1 and as consistent. Sidewall is in the soft side, but you can adjust your suspension accordingly.
No doubt hoosier is the fastes DOT legal tires. But for the price and performance, I much rather run Yokohama slicks. The Yokohama slicks is about 2-3 sec faster than hoosier depending on the track. They also degrade fast after each heat cycle. Wear is not the issue, as they usually become junk due to heat cycle well before the rubber worn out.
Now I heard the new yokohama A048 suppose to be as fast as Hoosier. I have never tried it. But the new hoosier is also rumored to be 1-2 sec faster than their old tire, but heavier. I have no personal experience with both tires.
Hoosier only good for 1 weekends, after that they degrade for about .3 sec every each cycle. We ran this on the NSX for a while, and still have them on. Fastest DOT legal tire.
Kumho is probably the worse tire for race situation. It is great for time trial, as it is faster than Toyo RA1, until about 15 minutes into the race, and they start to get greasy. But the price is right for weekend school, or HPDE event.
I really like Michelin. Other than the price, they are great tire. Stickier than the RA1 and as consistent. Sidewall is in the soft side, but you can adjust your suspension accordingly.
No doubt hoosier is the fastes DOT legal tires. But for the price and performance, I much rather run Yokohama slicks. The Yokohama slicks is about 2-3 sec faster than hoosier depending on the track. They also degrade fast after each heat cycle. Wear is not the issue, as they usually become junk due to heat cycle well before the rubber worn out.
Now I heard the new yokohama A048 suppose to be as fast as Hoosier. I have never tried it. But the new hoosier is also rumored to be 1-2 sec faster than their old tire, but heavier. I have no personal experience with both tires.
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