Front - toe-in versus toe-out

[goldNSX]

The OEM suspension is set toe-out in the front. What would you set toe in the front in a lowered car with stiffer swaybars?

My problem is that the front tires are wearing out very fast on the inside like: 'bald' on the inside and still 4 mm left on the outside of the tire. My car has -2mm total toe-out in the front, camber is less than 1 degrees. So, I don't know if the wear is a result of hard braking or hard slow-cornering. The Type-R swaybar certainly added up for more wear on the front tires when it was installed back then.

I now changed - according to another guy - to +2mm toe-in in the front like the Ferrari 360 is set to. It's hard to tell the difference as it got colder outside and the tires' rubber doesn't heat up enough even with spirited driving. It's still quite neutral with a slight tendency of understeering which is ok for me.

I think the geometry changes with the car being lowered and that it's not ideal to go with the stock alignment Settings in a lowered car.

What do you think about toe-in versus toe-out in the front or what aligment do YOU recommend on the lowered car (1.5'')?

 

[docjohn]

how does the car now feel when you make a turn?

 

[goldNSX]

It feels quick with toe-in in a turn. I don't feel any difference. Well, it was two weeks ago with toe-out and it got colder now.

 

[nsxot1c]

I once set my toe-in +2mm and really didn't enjoy the handling at all. My car is quite low... but it felt very unstable. Imho up front, toe-out is the only way to go.

 

[Honcho]

Toe-in front usually results in less crisp, slower turn in response. That is why Doc asked you. The factory toe-out setting is intended to provide a very responsive initial turn in.

Toe-in rear, however, is very important to preserve stability especially in cars with factory rubber bushings. I run +8 mm rear in my track alignment for this reason. on the street, I run +3.5 mm to preserve my tires. For the front I just leave it at the factory toe-out. My car is lowered to NSX-R height and I do not have any uneven wear on the front tires. What is your camber?

 

[goldNSX]

What is your camber?

Camber is around 0.5 degrees, not measured exactly yet but will do this month I hope.

I'm still wondering why my car does wear the front on the inside like crazy. I remember when my car was stock it wore also on the inside in the front but at a slower rate. My car didn't face a crash or the like. So maybe it's just my driving-style, could it? Could it be caster-related?

I also run +3 mm in the rear and am happy with it. Camber is around 2 degrees.

Just for a comparison: another car I know is running an even stiffer Setup but seems to have less wear with an even wear pattern on the front tires. Confused. Compared to this car mine is as 'flat' in the corners.

 

[docjohn]

If you are relying on a best guess as to your front camber i would waite to see what it really is.

 

[Hapa88]

Yeah, sounds like your out of alignment spec or your braking. My front tires Starspec Z1s with the OEM toe out in the front and Type R front sways last forever as in twice as long as the rears or more. I'm dropped on Eibachs.
I would check the alignment again. Also, try flipping your tires halfway inbetween wear (as in dismounting them and remounting them on the opposite wheel if they are directional).

 

[goldNSX]

I was driving her today on a different road, still with toe-in +2 mm front. This road needs frequent steering corrections and the steering felt slow. I was not very pleased. So I think toe-in in the front is not the way to go. But it was worth the try.

Thanks for the hint of flipping the tires. But most of the tires I prefer are labelled inside/outside. Not sure if flipping would be a good idea then.

BTW: my friend is very happy with toe-in, even on the track. He drives a tad faster than me anyway. But now I can tell him that he could even do better.

 

[goldNSX]

I was on the alignment machine today. The mechanic had a 91-01, a 02+ and even a Type S 99-01 in the computer. We went for the Type S values which is basically 14' more caster, -30' camber -1.8 mm toe in the front and 2.0 degrees camber and 2.1 mm toe in the rear.

Initial caster was low 7 degrees and camber was -26' and -12', not that bad. He recommended 0.0 mm toe in the front but we went with -1.1 mm instead. My drive home was promissing.

I'm still guessing what was causing the high wear on the inside on the front tires as the values were not that bad.

 

[Jeff@Carbon6]

You are correct that much of the suspension geometry changes when you lower the car. What is called "rolling center" is effected quite a bit. That is due to the control arms sitting far past horizontal. That in itself can make the car have a vague feel. The toe can help firm that up but at the expense of your tires. You can try changing your air pressure also. That will not make a huge change but can effect the feel of how the nose of the car "points" with steering input.