How can it be that electronics on my car are failing?

[rsevo6]

I have 2 NSX,

-A EU '98 with 58K Mls which has been a former owner's daily car, rain or snow, it has seen it all and is still in pristene mechanical and cosmetic condition, never had anything fail. Have owned it for the last 3.5 years now.

-A US '98 with just 23K Mls, it has been pampered all it's life and is in as new condition in and out, for the last 4K Mls it had a CTSC installed with several other additions. I imported it 2 years ago from the US.

On this car however I have already had several electronics parts fail:
the igniter went a year ago
a coilpack has now failed on the front cilinder bank, when taking it out it looks new, no rust whatsoever, but still defective
the AC is playing up for the last few drives, so probably needs a circuitboard overhaul.

I am very surprised that the higher mileage EU car has never had any electronics issues and on the other hand the very low mileage US car with less than half the mileage and a life long pampered garaged existance is having all these electronics fail.

Any explanation why this can be??

 

[UnhuZ]

Hi,

my only explanation is that lack of usage cause failures. What i find weird is that that lack of usage is revealing itself on electronic parts...it more prone to happen in rubbers on the mechanical side of the car.

Nuno

 

[pgilliam1]

What part of the USA did you import the car from? Maybe it resided in a high humidity state such as Florida or Washington.

 

[warrenw]

Rene:
Have you monitored the output voltage from the alternator. It could have a intermittant problem causeing too high of a voltage at times, stressing the electronics in the car. I once had a ford capri that had this issue. I found it by using a min/max recording multimeter and left it connected to the car for two months. Found that voltage would peek at 19V at times. replaced the alternator and never had another problem. Its a long shot, but you never know.

I had to get AC control board fixed as well. My '91 has been pampered with only 35k miles on it. This is a typical capacitor drying issue. I think all NSXs out there will eventually need this.

 

[ftuhy]

I would seriously check the alternator voltage idea from warrenw.

Another possibility is higher temperature in the engine bay from the CTSC. Electronics lifetime decreases at high temp, and engine bay temps are harsh to begin with. But I haven't heard similar complaints from other owners with the CTSC. Is there something unique about that car's headers, etc, that would restrict airflow or otherwise result in higher engine bay temps?

 

[Big_D]

Where was the US car from? Arizona maybe? High temperatures can really have adverse effects on electronics.

 

[nsxtasy]

I live in a city that is not prone to excessive heat, and my '91 NSX has always been garaged. I have owned it since I bought it new in December 1990. It now has around 80,000 miles.

The circuit boards in my sound system have been refurbished twice. The circuit board in my climate control system was refurbished for the first time this past year. In both cases, the boards were failing.

It's an electronics fact of life that capacitors leak after many years, and this can happen even on cars that don't spend time in a desert climate.

 

[swerve2007]

Where was the US car from? Arizona maybe? High temperatures can really have adverse effects on electronics.

honestly the only adverse effects you can expect from Az's dry hot climate is rubber seal deterioration.

 

[rsevo6]

Hi,

my only explanation is that lack of usage cause failures. What i find weird is that that lack of usage is revealing itself on electronic parts...it more prone to happen in rubbers on the mechanical side of the car.

Nuno

The ignition electronics (espec the igniter which is fully incapsulated in epoxy) are in my opinion hardly influenced by aging. Most ign coils are failing due to water getting to them end rusting as a result (rear cil bank). With my car it is however failing on the front cil bank, coil fully dry and NO rust whatsoever, no signs of aging, the rubber parts on the coil are flexible and look as new. The AC electronics are known to fail with aging, capacitors failing, so that seems not too unusual on older '90-'93 cars, however this happening on a '98 car is quite fast I think.

What part of the USA did you import the car from? Maybe it resided in a high humidity state such as Florida or Washington.

Car comes from VA. Always garaged, not driven much, so very little exposure to humidity or direct sunlight.

Rene:
Have you monitored the output voltage from the alternator. It could have a intermittant problem causeing too high of a voltage at times, stressing the electronics in the car. I once had a ford capri that had this issue. I found it by using a min/max recording multimeter and left it connected to the car for two months. Found that voltage would peek at 19V at times. replaced the alternator and never had another problem. Its a long shot, but you never know.

I had to get AC control board fixed as well. My '91 has been pampered with only 35k miles on it. This is a typical capacitor drying issue. I think all NSXs out there will eventually need this.

The alternator was changed for a new one at the moment of CTSC install as with that package comes a Integra alternator.
Is however possible, so will check. Thanks for the advice Warren :wink:

Know on the AC capacitors, but this happening to a '98 is very fast I think..

I would seriously check the alternator voltage idea from warrenw.

Another possibility is higher temperature in the engine bay from the CTSC. Electronics lifetime decreases at high temp, and engine bay temps are harsh to begin with. But I haven't heard similar complaints from other owners with the CTSC. Is there something unique about that car's headers, etc, that would restrict airflow or otherwise result in higher engine bay temps?

It has Comptech headers and exhaust, but nothing special generating extra heat, so don't expect this to be an issue.
I do however feel that on the igniter will get a lot warmer than usual as it is more or less "sandwiched" between the inlet manifold and the supercharger. Normally it is on top of the intakemanifold with nothing over it, so much cooler operation than with the CTSC installed, with the igniter this may be an issue/possible reason for it failing. On the other hand, why isn't this hapening to many other CTSC users then??

 

[Big_D]

honestly the only adverse effects you can expect from Az's dry hot climate is rubber seal deterioration.

I had alot of problems with electronics on my GMC Yukon that the dealer attributed to the high temperatures in Lake Havasu City. I was thinking maybe because the vehicle spent alot of time on the hot asphault while we were out boating and playing in the water. In the afternoon when I would start it up, the temp guage was reading up to 128 degrees.

 

[shawn110975]

so what your saying is the EU NON-SC car has had no problems, but the US SC is having problems? I think Turbo and SuperChargers KILL the life of the engines,

the EU/US were all made in Japan anyway.

 

[rsevo6]

so what your saying is the EU NON-SC car has had no problems, but the US SC is having problems? I think Turbo and SuperChargers KILL the life of the engines,

the EU/US were all made in Japan anyway.

If anything, it would be the mechanics that would be more likely to give problems on a SC or turbo car as they are getting more power to cope with and I have NO mechanical issues with the SC car.

For the electronics I don't see what the negative of a SC or Turbo would be (with the exception of higher engine bay temps)
Besides, I have owned a lot of SC and Turbo cars (also kitted NA ones) and have NEVER experienced electronics problems (as in: parts failing) with any of them.

 

[goldNSX]

For the electronics I don't see what the negative of a SC or Turbo would be (with the exception of higher engine bay temps)

Well, THAT is the main reason. :wink: If you look at a capacitors rating, they are mainly 85 or 105 degrees celsius. Half of the temps extends their life by the double as a general rule of thumb.

The comparison is not accurate as it's only a snap-shot. Just wait until you run into the same problems with the EU car except for the coilpack and the igniter which I would correlate to the excessive heat generated by the CTSC. But both things can go bad in any NSX, in a CTSC just earlier. Just look on the bright side: The electronics held up 12 years which is a record in today's car industry I believe.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

I dont expect the ignitor module or the coilpack to house any electrolytic capacitors. What i can see is how the coilpack has been going south for a long time and has taken the ignitor module out, before it went itself.

The AC trouble has to be explained more before we can point at the AC-board.

If the voltage of the alternator is off, then you would expect to see the more sensitive electronics to play up first. Id say that a coilpack can take a lot more beating then a mirco-electronics circuit like he AC-PCB.

As suggested earlier. Measure your alternator, for an extended period of time.

 

[Briank]

Electrolytic capacitors like the ones in the CCU and amps have a rated life in hours that is based on not going over the rated temp. The caps used in the NSX are rated at 105C so any time above 105C will shorten that time
exponentially. In a car getting above 105C in the summer is not hard.

I am seeing newer and newer climate control units in for repair and a 98 is 12 years old so it's due.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Especially the capacitors manufactured around about 2002~2004(?) where pretty bad. Apperently there has been a huge amount of electrolite manufactured with a defect.
If you've ever opened your computer from that era, you must be familiar with the sunroof capcitors.....lol....
At the time i was doing warranty reapirs for a mainboard manufacturer. I must have replaced 1 zilion of them under warranty.

 

[nsxtasy]

The caps used in the NSX are rated at 105C so any time above 105C will shorten that time exponentially. In a car getting above 105C in the summer is not hard.

Do you mean 105F (41C)?

105C = 221F. That's pretty darn hot. I thought even cars sitting out in the sun only get up to around 150-160F (66-71C).

 

[Briank]

Yes its "C".

Not to forget electronics get warm so when you add ambient to it's self heating getting to 105C is not hard. A 1000 hour capacitor will last longer at cooler temps but even if it lasts 2000 hours that is not realy a long time.

 

[ftuhy]

When parking the car even for a few hours in the sun (at the beach or in Phoenix, for example), it pays to put a cover over the car. It lowers the cockpit temperatures significantly & lower temps = longer electronics life.

 

[goldNSX]

I dont expect the ignitor module or the coilpack to house any electrolytic capacitors.

I agree but any heat will let the electronics suffer sooner or later. You're right about testing the A/C further but on the other hand I would not be surprised if the module shows leaking caps. The sooner the repair the better.

 

[rsevo6]

Rene:
Have you monitored the output voltage from the alternator. It could have a intermittant problem causeing too high of a voltage at times, stressing the electronics in the car. I once had a ford capri that had this issue. I found it by using a min/max recording multimeter and left it connected to the car for two months. Found that voltage would peek at 19V at times. replaced the alternator and never had another problem. Its a long shot, but you never know.

I had to get AC control board fixed as well. My '91 has been pampered with only 35k miles on it. This is a typical capacitor drying issue. I think all NSXs out there will eventually need this.

I just realised that my OBD2 scantool also can monitor voltage. However: will it show alternator voltage or battery voltage?

 

[ftuhy]

The alternator and battery are in parallel, therefore the voltage is the same.

The battery acts as a giant filter on the alternator output, converting the rectified sine wave into dc.

 

[rsevo6]

Completely forgot about this topic that I started :redface:
By using the OBD scantool I checked the voltage and all is normal (depending on how long the car hasn't been used, readings measure from 11.8-13.8V), so don't think this can be the cause for the several electronics components failing.

The CCU now seems to be failing, often not working for first several minutes after starting the car and often only working on manual setting of lowest temp setting / highest blower setting.

Is there a partslist which parts to get for CCU overhaul available?
I would like to get all parts needed before taking it apart, so downtime will be as short as possible.

Don't want the car sitting while having to search for parts all over the place.

Sending it to the US for repairs will take too long as temps are rising here now and I want to drive the car with working CCU asap.

 

[ftuhy]

See posts # 20 & 23 on this thread http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127930

Also, I'd put a small disc of teflon under C44. When that capacitor goes, it often causes significant damge to the printed wiring board. For more discussion on this topic, see http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127930

 

[21acres]

Completely forgot about this topic that I started :redface:
By using the OBD scantool I checked the voltage and all is normal (depending on how long the car hasn't been used, readings measure from 11.8-13.8V), so don't think this can be the cause for the several electronics components failing.

The CCU now seems to be failing, often not working for first several minutes after starting the car and often only working on manual setting of lowest temp setting / highest blower setting.

Is there a partslist which parts to get for CCU overhaul available?
I would like to get all parts needed before taking it apart, so downtime will be as short as possible.

Don't want the car sitting while having to search for parts all over the place.

Sending it to the US for repairs will take too long as temps are rising here now and I want to drive the car with working CCU asap.

I bought a new unit from BrianK (did the speaker amps at the same time too) and paid an extra core deposit. Then when I got the new unit I put it in and sent my old unit back for a prompt refund. No delay with repairs that way and it only tied up a little more money for a short amount of time. BrianK does the best work in my opinion and judging by the posts on prime a lot of people agree.