How is Fisker doing it?

[TURBO2GO]

I am still confused as to how Henrik Fisker is going to deliver the Karma in November of this year. A car that according to them averages 100 MPG, has 402 horsepower, weighs 4650 pounds. GM can barely build a Volt with all its expertise. Tesla, who is now in a lawsuit with Fisker claiming theft of trade secrets as they hired Fisker originaly to design a 4 door for them, is selling an Elise body 2 seater at over 100K. The Karma, which looks like 3X the car is $87K? Even if this car was a regular non-electric propulsion vehicle, that price seems cheap. The body is gorgeous. Possibly the best looking 4 door available. 959 lb/ft of torque available at 0 RPM's. *CURVED* solar roof panel.

I mean it all just seems too good to be true. One of my family members is about to put a deposit down on one. He relies on me for automotive info and once I showed him pics, he was hooked. But part of my brain still says 2 and 2 are not adding up. Does anyone have any insight or opinions on this thing?

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[theman1990]

A few years ago I read an article about some obscure company in TX that claimed they had an idea to revolutionize the electric car industry. Essentially they claimed to use capacitor technology to store energy to provide power during the "high demand" times (ie passing, accelerating etc) and then a hybrid setup to maintain speed. The claimed it would allow breakneck acceleration with nearly 100mpg efficiency... Sounds like this may be the result. I know that at the time of the article, they had at least obtained a patent on the technology, so maybe it's real...

 

[Vega$ NSX]

A few years ago I read an article about some obscure company in TX that claimed they had an idea to revolutionize the electric car industry. Essentially they claimed to use capacitor technology to store energy to provide power during the "high demand" times (ie passing, accelerating etc) and then a hybrid setup to maintain speed. The claimed it would allow breakneck acceleration with nearly 100mpg efficiency... Sounds like this may be the result. I know that at the time of the article, they had at least obtained a patent on the technology, so maybe it's real...

Not sure if it is the same thing but I heard this professor at MIT speak and I think will play a prominent role in battery technology in the near future.

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2009/03/12/mit_scientists_charged_up/

Regarding the OP, I think it is possible. It just goes to show how much red tape and corporate BS really slows down the production process. Think about production TV or radio and how long it takes them to develop a TV or radio program, versus YouTube or Podcasting where technology has allowed smaller production teams to create equally entertaining products at a mere fraction of the production costs, management and marketing. Because of such, there is also less of a need for higher profit margins so relative products seem like a bargain. I would venture to guess that Fisker is no different. However, that isn't to say it isn't without its problems. I would suspect that there will definitely be a whole host of issues, inconsistency and a program to fix/recall problems, that are typically avoided with larger manufacturers with a consistent quality control program and routine.

 

[TURBO2GO]

This was a good interview:

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[Tom239]

The 100 mpg claim is silly. They mean you can use one gallon for every 100 miles as long as you're also charging the car every so often. More honest would be to say 100 miles per (gallon of gas + some number of kWh of electricity).

It has about 1/5 the range of a Tesla on batteries alone, so the batteries in a Tesla probably cost around 5x what the batteries in this car cost.

In any case, take all the claims with a grain of salt until it's in production.

 

[TURBO2GO]

The 100 mpg claim is silly. They mean you can use one gallon for every 100 miles as long as you're also charging the car every so often. More honest would be to say 100 miles per (gallon of gas + some number of kWh of electricity).

It has about 1/5 the range of a Tesla on batteries alone, so the batteries in a Tesla probably cost around 5x what the batteries in this car cost.

In any case, take all the claims with a grain of salt until it's in production.

Even if it gets 35MPG I am still impressed for what this car is. Quantum, the motor suppliser to Fisker owns part of a Lithium battery company.

 

[RPM217]

I have a friend who's an "investor" in the company. They are the real deal. Have firm orders for the sedan and delivery will commence shortly. The convertible will be delayed a little I think. They are well run and apparantly sufficiently capitalized. Car will be a winner, albeit in limited numbers, but I would buy one.

 

[docjohn]

I have a friend who's an "investor" in the company. They are the real deal. Have firm orders for the sedan and delivery will commence shortly. The convertible will be delayed a little I think. They are well run and apparantly sufficiently capitalized. Car will be a winner, albeit in limited numbers, but I would buy one.

Good to hear Roger.Lets hope they spent some time and $ on the suspension/brakes.Nothing worse than a desirable looking car with a fancy powertrain but drives /feels like a brick.

 

[lrsudog]

How is Fisker doing it?

...

 

[Tom239]

It's 4650 pounds and does 0-60 in 5.8 seconds.
We have no idea what the real mpg is if run solely on gas.

 

[Whatwasthat]

I read in R&T that Fisker is able to keep cost low, because he doesn't have to build a factory to build these cars. He relys on parts manufacturers to build and supply most of the parts for the car.

Quantum 2 electric motors and litihium ion batterys
Ecotec turbocharged engine
Valmet built coach (builders for Porsche boxster and Cayman)

This car's quality might be on par with a European Ford.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Good to hear Roger.Lets hope they spent some time and $ on the suspension/brakes.Nothing worse than a desirable looking car with a fancy powertrain but drives /feels like a brick.

If you watch the video in the interview he says that the suspension was done by Porsche Engineers and a group that worked on the Ford GT. There are some videos already of it running on the track:

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[TC]

The 100 mpg claim is silly. They mean you can use one gallon for every 100 miles as long as you're also charging the car every so often. More honest would be to say 100 miles per (gallon of gas + some number of kWh of electricity).

It has about 1/5 the range of a Tesla on batteries alone, so the batteries in a Tesla probably cost around 5x what the batteries in this car cost.

In any case, take all the claims with a grain of salt until it's in production.

I saw a segment on this car in Jan (around the NAIAS) on CNBC. The 100+ mpg was measured by filling up the gas tank and fully charging the batteries, and then heading off into the sunset until the car was completely out of drive. They divided the total distance traveled by the amount of fuel put into the gas tank to arrive at the 100+ mpg figure. I don't recall if it was highway, city or mixed driving. The news story said it would cost about $2.50 to recharge using night-rate electricity.

 

[Ponyboy]

I actually saw an example last year at a solar power trade show. It was indeed a looker though the reps didn't know a whole lot about it. My first impression was "wow, this thing is low." Fit and finish looked good though I couldn't look in to see the interior.

 

[Ski_Banker]

I too wonder what the economics look like for electric cars. It seems to me that they could, potentially, be substantially cheaper to manufacture once there is some production scale. Think of how complex a combustion drivetrain is:

Very complex engine
Complex transmission
Cooling system
Emissions system
Tuning development costs

vs.

Electric motor (I think they're fairly simple mechanically)
Batteries (get the tech right, then add lots of 'em)

Of course, gas-electric hybrids are even more complex but....

 

[Tom239]

I saw a segment on this car in Jan (around the NAIAS) on CNBC. The 100+ mpg was measured by filling up the gas tank and fully charging the batteries, and then heading off into the sunset until the car was completely out of drive. They divided the total distance traveled by the amount of fuel put into the gas tank to arrive at the 100+ mpg figure. I don't recall if it was highway, city or mixed driving. The news story said it would cost about $2.50 to recharge using night-rate electricity.

I was going by what I read on the Fisker web site:

"This balance of electric and gas range makes it entirely possible that Karma drivers who charge their car overnight and commute less than 50 miles a day will achieve an average fuel economy of 100 mpg (2.4L/100km) per year."

... which is stupid (the "per year" at the end is meaningless), and beside the point (so what if you get 100 "mpg" if most the energy you're using came from plugging it in overnight).

I could add a gas engine to my bicycle and say that the miles per gallon numbers are great as long as I pedal a lot and don't run the engine so much.

 

[soloracer951]

What is the range? Does it depend upon the battery power? For example, let's say you drive until the gas tank is empty. Then you fill up again. If the battery power eventually dies, will the car still run? What mileage does it get then?

P.S. I like the looks of the car. Reminds me of a Maserati Grande Sport.

 

[soloracer951]

Just had another thought, just imagine what these guys could do if you the government threw $60 billion at them instead of GM & Chrysler. Revolution in the car world?

 

[KSXNSX]

Wow. I want one.

 

[TC]

I was going by what I read on the Fisker web site:
... which is stupid (the "per year" at the end is meaningless), and beside the point (so what if you get 100 "mpg" if most the energy you're using came from plugging it in overnight).

I could add a gas engine to my bicycle and say that the miles per gallon numbers are great as long as I pedal a lot and don't run the engine so much.

I was just sharing what I had heard on CNBC. You are right - if they are annualizing the MPG (total miles driven in a year divided by the total gas consumed in a year) then it all comes down to the length of the trip and the frequency of plug-in recharging. The car is supposed to go 50 miles on batteries alone, so for those drivers that drive less than 50 miles per day and plug-in recharge every night, they presumably could get 1,000 miles to the gallon.

 

[TC]

What is the range? Does it depend upon the battery power? For example, let's say you drive until the gas tank is empty. Then you fill up again. If the battery power eventually dies, will the car still run? What mileage does it get then?

P.S. I like the looks of the car. Reminds me of a Maserati Grande Sport.

The electric-only range is 50 miles. The range with the gas-engine driving the generator to drive the electric motor is estimated to provide another 250 miles of range. So yes, if the battery completely runs down, the car will drive as along as there is gas in the tank. Basically think of the gas-engine as a built-in Honda portable generator.

Of course, until these cars are tested by the automotive press and EPA, the true MPG and range will not be known.

 

[nsxsupra]

This thing is beautiful, and it is a proud American. Most importantly both Fisker and Quantum are located in the coolest city in OC.

The front grill is bit weird, almost as it is the over-sized version of BMW's front teeth grill, but a little bit of photoshop can made a huge difference.

461hp
959 lb-ft torque

Sedan

Hard Top Convertible 2 door coupe:

 

[steveny]

The 100 mpg claim is silly. They mean you can use one gallon for every 100 miles as long as you're also charging the car every so often. More honest would be to say 100 miles per (gallon of gas + some number of kWh of electricity).

It has about 1/5 the range of a Tesla on batteries alone, so the batteries in a Tesla probably cost around 5x what the batteries in this car cost.

In any case, take all the claims with a grain of salt until it's in production.

I have been to the Tesla dealer and have been for a joy ride in a Tesla. I spent a couple of hours asking questions and seriously thought of buying one except for service issues and the expense of sending the car from NY to LA to have service done. The salesman told me the batteries in the Tesla only need to be changed out every 100k miles and the cost to do so is 15k. He went on to make a great point that after the batteries are changed out you basically have a brand new car. I can tell you this the Tesla is REALLY quick, eerie feeling too as there is virtually no noise under full acceleration.

 

[Tom239]

This thing is beautiful, and it is a proud American.

A car's nationality isn't always clear-cut. Is an assembled-in-Finland Karma more or less American than an assembled-in-Ohio Honda?

 

[KSXNSX]

This is Ferrari 599 GTB vs. Maserati Gran Turismo