HSC is no NSX

[cmhs75]

OK im going to say this although I know im going to get thrashed for it.

I don’t think the HSC is good enough to replace the NSX

There are two factors they have to work out

1- the car looks a little too small, how will they ever fit a proper engine in there? How will they get 400-500 HP from an engine that small. They need that kind of power because judging by the currant events, by the time the HSC makes it to the market, 500HP will be standard in all of its rivals. And even more importantly, since they are planning to keep it for a long life span, how will it accommodate future power plant enlargements
2- the general styling of the car is great as it is currently. But when it makes it into production, they will water down the looks and that will make it dual especially in the long run And what's worst is that they deleted the devilishly long tail that clearly identifies the currant NSX. Besides the front end, the HSC hardly bares any resemblance to the currant NSX. The resemblance wouldn’t make the car look old, just look at the currant Aston Marten Vanquish.

They need to improve on the currant HSC if the NSX is to gain its former glory. Not because the HSC isn’t a fantastic car, but it has huge rubber to fill in

OK on with the thrashing

 

[NemesisX]

Actually cmhs75, I somewhat agree with you. It does look like a great car, in that the car is going to be smaller, but my problem (besides the underpowering) is the style....

Its a great looking car but it doesnt have the "timeless" quality of the current NSX....the great thing about the current NSX is the simply yet sleek elegant lines that say " this car could have started production in 1991 or 2001" I dont see that in the Prototype........but then again it is a prototype....

but...

realistically....

I wouldnt kick it out of bed!

 

[RP-Motorsports]

400-500 HP from an engine that small. They need that kind of power because judging by the currant events, by the time the HSC makes it to the market, 500HP will be standard in all of its rivals

Honda has kept up with AND beat many many cars in its class and above since the 70's with less bhp. Ex- CVCC,CRX,GSR,Civic Si,ITR,NSX just to name a few. I absolutely loved the Honda's that I have owned (Civic Si, GSR, NSX) I would buy a couple bolt-on parts, and dominate Auto-X in my class, and even all the way up to road race events. I ran equal lap times with my GSR as Nissan 300ZX turbo's, Supra Turbo's, Mustang's, Camaro's, and even C4's. I could do this NOT because of BHP, but a combination of Honda's supurb engineering as to suspension, brakes, rigidity, lightness, steering response/feel etc. as well as a very potent motor for its displacement. Honda does NOT need to shove a W16 (Bugatti) or a V16 or V10 or even a V8 in a well designed platform. If Nissan can get 287 bhp out of a 3.5L Honda can easily get 350 or more. With the right gearing, pwr:weight ratio, and dyno curve, the new NSX/HSC WILL be competitive for 1/2 the price. Hell the current car hits 175mph with a 3.2 making only 290 bhp @ under $100K If the new car retailed for as much as a 360 Modena, it WOULD have 600 bhp and do 200+. I think Honda is smart to stay somewhere between a Z06 and a 360 as far as cost goes. Any cheaper, it would be a dime a dozen like the Z06 (save that for the S2K) Any more, and the already low sales figure would be even lower.

I guess my point is I would rather sacrifice a little power disadvantage to stay ahead by having a sub-3000 lb car with great brakes, suspension and steering. Look at the Viper.....tons of power but thats it. Ever drive one? It is like slipping on a size 15 shoe on a size 9 foot. Fun to go straight, but scary as hell to turn or brake. Displacement is only good up to a point in a street car. They get too heavy and numb after a point.

 

[ajnsx]

yeah, who said they are planning to put a 400-500 horsepower engine in there anyway? power to weight ratio, people! Beating the big 'uns with less is what Honda is all about!

 

[cmhs75]

I know that Honda doesn’t need a lot of HP to give outstanding performance. Its just the matter of Image.

Everyone will look at the HSX/NSX as a supercar. They will expect an exceptional design. I don’t think a V6 does good to the image of a supercar. The currant trend is to go for a V10. And using big engines is not necessarily a disadvantage. Gordon Merry was pointing at the weight saving direction when he designed The Maclaren and he still used a V12.
So true the Honda doesn’t need a lot of HP but more of it is always welcomed. Just look at what the currant SC NSX's are capable of

 

[cmhs75]

Damn, I was looking for HSC posts on the General Discussion board and count find any. So I thought that the HSC wave was finally dead, and I don’t remember anyone disliking the HSC so I started this thread on the General Discussion board. When I didn’t find it there, I thought it got deleted. But then when I received an E-mail that my post had a reply. I opened it and saw that y thread was transferred to another new Board. I never noticed this new board before.

Anyway, I see that the HSC wave is alive and well. And after reading a few posts, I see that my thread is unneeded because its being discussed lese ware.
Oh well

 

[Dr.Honda]

Thanks T Bell for your very intelligent dissertation. Honda has to do the impossible, create a car capable of carrying on the tradition of doing more with less (displacement), yet compete with
the likes of Z06/Viper/911 at the 60-80 k pricepoint and still give Ferrari 360 something to worry about at twice the price. It's going to get done with superior engineering, not brute horsepower.

 

[ajnsx]

following current trends is not always a good thing......
can you really imagine honda whacking a v10 in their production cars, just because 'everyone else' is doing it? When the nsx was first designed i dont think people outside of Japan envisaged a v6 for a sports car either, when the 'current trend' of the day was v8's.

I think maybe they are thinking much further ahead than that. Then again, fossil fuel cars are on their last legs. Enjoy it while we can.

 

[ncdogdoc]

I think it is funny that many think that there will be many changes to this car over the years. There have been virtually none (minor updates aside) for over 14 years to the present car, so why should that change with the "new" car.

I do have mixed feelings over "similar" styles. If I do not like the new style, I want some legacy cues, but if it is a killer design, then let bygones be bygones

After all, how much does a '99 Prelude look like a early 80's model.

 

[cmhs75]

I think it is funny that many think that there will be many changes to this car over the years. There have been virtually none (minor updates aside) for over 14 years to the present car, so why should that change with the "new" car.

I do have mixed feelings over "similar" styles. If I do not like the new style, I want some legacy cues, but if it is a killer design, then let bygones be bygones

After all, how much does a '99 Prelude look like a early 80's model.

The Prelude got Axed !!

 

[ncdogdoc]

But after many more years than 14!!!

 

[gheba_nsx]

Excuse me but where do you see a "trend" in V10 engines???

Ferrari has none, Porsche one but costs 5x the NSX, McLaren not, Viper not, Corvette not, Lotus,... not!

Only the Gallardo has a V10 and is "somehow" in the NSX class at 2x-3x the price!

 

[danpiu]

damn sure, Viper has V10-engine, did you forget it?
Gallardo with V10, but only an unexiting undeveloped A8 or Pheaton-engine!

 

[Sig]

Regardless of the engine used, 450hp or greater will in fact be the benchmark in the first tier sports cars. This assumes a weight of 2800+ pounds.

Obviously, if Honda came in at a skinny 2200, then the same rules will not apply.

Someone asked can you imagine a 500hp engine in the NSX, well YES I can...... I can also imagine that car in my garage! The same can not be said about a 350 hp version.

There was a great point made about the McLaren. It is considered by many as the most balanced performance machine out there.... and of course we all know what engine it uses.

My personal stance is that of evaluating the final power results vs. looking at the # of cylinders in the engine. However, if the final hp # is under 450... I will be dissappointed. This assumes that we will still have to wait two years for its arrival in the showroom. If they can achieve that with a V6, more power to them. I will still be quite happy to have a V6. If not, Porsche will get my money for the next high-end sports car purchase. By 2005 there will be a broad selection of choices at those performance levels, so in affect I would consider others aside from the Porsche. That's just the marque that jumped in my head.

 

[ncdogdoc]

There was a great point made about the McLaren. It is considered by many as the most balanced performance machine out there.... and of course we all know what engine it uses.

Yeah, but at what cost

I, too, would like a bunch of HP, but when only boosted 996's and Vipers can really outrun me at VIR, I do not need 500hp (yet).

 

[NetViper]

In two years --when the new NSX is supposed to come -- this is my prediction for the marketplace.

2005-2006

Standard vette - 405 HP v8
Z06 - 500 HP v8
Viper - 550 HP v10
911 - 375 HP V6
911 Turbo 450+ HP V6
360 replacement 460 HP V8
Lambo Gallardo 500 HP V10.
m5 - 500HP V10
M3 - 400 HP v8.
Mustang Cobra 420 HP V8 (SC)


And Honda will bring out a Brand New NSX with a 350 HP V6 and car enthusiasts are supposed to be excited about that? Will anyone even notice?

I am sorry... I love the NSX, but the next gen MUST have 415-450 HP to be even considered exotic. v6/v8 FI.. i dont think that matters, as long as the HP is there.

With only 350HP will it even be considered a sports car let alone an exotic????

Just imagine what the market will look like in 2010 when Honda will increase the displacement by .2 L and make 370 HP!

 

[mlambert890]

NetViper... I think your view is exageratedly fatalistic. First of all, you're going off on a tangent based on assumptions of what you think might happen.

That said, why are you so hung up on the actual number of HP?

The Mustang has 390HP right now. That's more than the Corvette C5. Is it denting Corvette sales? Hardly.

If the new NSX has 350hp yet solidly manages to outperform and outhandle everything short of the Viper SRT-10 and delivers the most accessible, driver friendly experience with the best track manners of the bunch, it will be a massive success.

Contrary to popular forum mythos, real people don't actually buy HP, they buy performance and image.

I will agree, however, that the next NSX will need to be 4.0 seconds flat to 60 and 11.9-12.1 at 118+ in the 1/4 to be successful.

As for "being considered a sportscar", the press are hailing the 350Z and RX8 as the greatest sportscars around. The magazines have even been picking the 350Z over the M3 for some unknown reason, so don't be so quick to assume that a lightweight, perfectly balanced, 350hp NSX would be summarily written off.

 

[NetViper]

OK.. i might have been a little crazy... but it was a fun read wasn't it

On the serious side, I really doubt the NSX would produce the performance figures you mention with only 350 HP. I do agree with your times thought. That is where it needs to be.

 

[mlambert890]

I agree that it will be tough with 350hp. The car will have to be very light and geared for the 1/4 (which isn't likely since that will hurt top end).

 

[cmhs75]

sure the NSX might give out brilliantly with only 350HP V6 engine if it was super light and ultra low gearshifts

But hey, where have I heard that before?

Ohh yeah, that’s the claim of every single British kit car out there


You buy a car in a box for less than 35000 $

You put it all together and vwala , you have a car that can do 0-60 in 3.7 sec and unbeatable on the track


The NSX has to play along with the currant market rules and beat everyone around if it should survive.

And about the V10 engine. I don’t have hard facts, Its just a hunch from the currant trends of a lot of supercars these days.

 

[spdntckt]

Too bad it wont happen.. but an updated 3.5 powerplant running a modest 6-8 lbs boost would do the trick.....

you wouldnt just get the HP, but the TORQUE...

this is the difference.. having driven a 360 as well as a Z06- the z06 has so much more of a 'super car' accelleration.. because of the torque.... (before you flame me. .NO i am not saying the z06 is a supercar.. but merely that it really moves when you step on the gas and is actually more fun in that respect)

 

[NSX/MR2]

I am waiting on the HSC. If I see something I like, I will do something about it ASAP.

 

[Sig]

In the end, the marketplace has the final vote.

If in fact the car is released with 350 hp in the calender year 2005.... I predict a visually attractive/well-engineered car, but with dissappointing sales.

However, if on the other hand we see a 500hp car released in 2005, I predict a visually attractive/well-engineered car, that also has a long waiting list at dealerships across the country.

When I hear the statement that contends, "nobody will be able to effectively use that kind of hp on the track or street"..... I agree with the accuracy of the statement. This is in fact quite true. On the other hand, although the statement is factual, it does not address the fact that the average buyer of a high-end sports car couldn't care less whether or not he can use every last pony the engine has to offer.

Time will tell.

 

[cmhs75]

In the end, the marketplace has the final vote.

If in fact the car is released with 350 hp in the calender year 2005.... I predict a visually attractive/well-engineered car, but with dissappointing sales.

However, if on the other hand we see a 500hp car released in 2005, I predict a visually attractive/well-engineered car, that also has a long waiting list at dealerships across the country.


Time will tell.

Yeah but as things are right now


If Honda flunks with the upcoming NSX like using a 350 V6 engine and not having enough customers loyal to buy it ( Only loyal costumers will by an overpriced 350 HP V6 )

It might mean the final death of the NSX or its bloodline

 

[Sloopy]

Performance is what I am after and don't care about the #s.

I own a S2000 and can use all the power with ease, but can't jump on the gas coming out of a tight radiaus turn.

I got a chance at some seat time in a viper and noticed that it reacts simalur to my S2000 at the limit.

The result was that I could use all of the power with ease as long as (I didn't jump on the gas coming out of turns).