Insructor Qs.

[NSX 3.0]

Just wondering how all you Instructors get certified? I've only done seven HPDSs and am in no where near becoming an Instructor but I was just wondering how you become one. I see there are a few here from Speedtrial,Track Time and various Club Marks BMW,Porsche etc just curious.

 

[nsxtasy]

The qualifications needed to be an instructor are rarely cut and dried (i.e. "x" number of events and you can be an instructor), but with most groups, people rarely become instructors with fewer than at least 20-30 events, and usually more.

In most cases, it starts with repeated driving in the same events over and over. As you eventually move up into the most experienced student run group and repeatedly drive in their "A" student run oup, the group that runs those events will get a comfort level for your driving ability, as well as your on-track courtesy and your ability to communicate with others.

From there, it's a matter of following their procedure. They may approach you and ask you; or, you can ask them how they go about it (although many groups are not always thrilled to hear such requests from someone that doesn't appear ready yet, in their eyes).

Once you are under consideration for possible designation as an instructor, some clubs (e.g. BMW CCA) hold instructor training sessions where you spend the entire weekend in training, with special classes, role play, etc. Others (e.g. Windy City Chapter BMW CCA) will designate you as an instructor in training for an event you're signed up for, so that your instructor does some similar things (role play from both sides of the car, etc) as well as riding in the rear seat of some student cars, etc. Still others (e.g. NSXCA) rely on recommendations from those who have supervised your driving for driving ability as well as communications skills etc.

Once you start instructing with one group or chapter, it can then become easier to instruct with another group or chapter.

And, there are always a few groups for which it seems to be impossible to break into the instructor group, no matter what you do...

 

[NSX 3.0]

Thanks for the detailed answer Ken.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

With SpeedtrialUSA, you need to be in the advanced group for a couple of years. They will ask you to "help" out some 1st timers with some in car instructing. Speedtrial, is probably the most laid back clubs to do learning and instructing. Mostly due to the small # of participants compared to say the Windy City BMWCCA. Personally I only feel comfortable helping 1st timers at this point, for two reasons. 1) I am still learning to fine tune my own driving, 2) I don't think my nerves could handle the intermediate or advanced drivers!!!!

 

[Nimbus]

For me, I think it takes more nerves to ride with the beginners than the advanced drivers...

 

[RP-Motorsports]

For me, I think it takes more nerves to ride with the beginners than the advanced drivers...

The beginners run a min slower per lap @ Road America, and they usually don't think they are Zanardi following Herta @ Laguna like some advanced students do! I guess I see harder crashes usually by the advanced group, and usually just some slow speed spins by the rookies. (speeds are a lot slower)

 

[Nimbus]

Advanced drivers usually know what they and their cars' limits are. Advanced drivers are also more likely to know what to do in situations when their cars get out of shape. The speeds are faster in the advanced group simply because of better driving techniques and fewer mistakes. Of course even the best can not always be perfect, but I'd take my chances with advanced drivers any day rather than the hot blooded beginners and intermediates who just got their first high horsepower car, who think they are F1 racers until some hard lessons are learned.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

You must instruct at some pretty laid back schools. The beginner sessions are pretty well kept in line in the schools that I attend. The instructors will shut down an overly aggressive student prior to the things that you mentioned. The main school I attend, (BMWCCA) really stresses lines, and smoothness along with on track courtesy during the novice run groups (Ken do you agree???)

The behavior that you mention sounds more like a Speedseekers event, which set a record with I believe 14 accidents in a weekend @ Road America last fall!

 

[Bishop]

One more thing to add to this thread that might be of some value to Steven and anyone else who is an avid student:

It is never too early to start thinking about instructing. As an intermediate driver, you are in a unique position to judge different styles and techniques of instruction. When you go home after each school, take notes not only on your car setup and your own progress, but also on your likes/dislikes of your interaction with the instructor.

And when the instructor gets in the car and asks you about your driving experience and your goals for that school, do not be shy about telling them that your ultimate goal is to be an instructor!

-Bishop

 

[NSX 3.0]

Windy City and Badger BMW Shools do have a evaluation sheet for your Instructor... And in turn they evaluate you and your skills etc. I have noticed that different Instructors do have different lines etc at the same Track. I have only done them at Road America and feel I have been getting faster and a little smoother with each School.


I guess I do these Schools to relax and have fun but I guess someday yes I would like to Instruct it is just way to much fun!

 

[Bishop]

Windy City and Badger BMW Shools do have a evaluation sheet for your Instructor...

Excellent. The mark of a good organization is one which seeks to improve the level and quality of instruction, not just have a good turn-out.

I have noticed that different Instructors do have different lines etc at the same Track.

The truth is that this is no indicator whatsoever as to the strengths and weaknesses of your instructor. At the end of the day, try to put aside your feelings about what line the instructor pushed you toward (or how they drove their own car) and instead focus on their communication abilities and how they worked to make it the most educational experience possible for you. That's what belongs on your evaluation sheet.

I guess I do these Schools to relax and have fun but I guess someday yes I would like to Instruct it is just way to much fun!

Instructing isn't for everyone, but you should have some sort of long term goals, and if riding in the right seat is one of them, don't be shy about telling your instructors that!

-B

 

[ExRacer]

How to get the Instructor Experience

It is encouraging to see the mature discussions regarding how to make the progression to instructor status in this forum.

The requirements vary greatly according to the organization sanctioning the event. You need a lot of experience. I have raced motorcycles, offroad bikes and trucks, and roadrace currently. Nonracing years on Mulholland, Angeles Crest, european autobahns, Baja and tracks in the USA and Europe help with overall skills. However, to gain instructor status the best way is to first get a competition license in NASA, SCCA, BMWCCA, PCA, SCORE USAC, CART or another sanctioned race group.

Racing is the best path to knowing your own car and improving your personal techniques. You should familiarize yourself with the Carrol Smith racing books and mine the net for all info regarding any track you want to know before you get there. Run as many HPDE events as you can. Autocross, get rides with experienced competition drivers (tough with most being single seaters), and then race with others to learn how to share the track at maximum speeds. Also any competition driving schools can be helpful, but the results will vary greatly according to your previous skill, wallet, and the schools' techiques and practices. Driving Concepts' Race school is one of the best.

Now for the hard part. You have to learn how to teach. This involves being empathetic to the new driver, assessing their skills, goals, and quickly observing firsthand their weaknesses. Then you devise a strategy to get the skills required by example, coaching, actually moving the steering wheel, driving the car yourself, and most importantly, post-session downloads where the results are critiqued without the distraction of actually driving.

As Chief Instructor for SpeedTrial, and a line instructor for NASA it is my pleasure to have instructed 100s of beginners in the basics of competant driving skills on real racetracks. Not all people make the grade. However, if you listen, really integrate what is presented and slowly work on car control, braking points, proper lines, apexes, exits, linkages of corners together, passing and car maintainance and preparation, you will improve quickly. Many of my students now have their competition licenses and others are better drivers both oncourse and on the street.

The joy of seeing someone who may have started timidly click off well-controlled laps is so gratifying. You also get to drive some of the best cars in the world! When I look for people to instruct, I look for a seasoned licensed racer or someone in the race game for a while that runs up front, shares the track, has built cars or run a number of different groups and also has a cool demeanor that will transfer into a good listener and and an all round car guy/gal.

Some general advice. Don't be a cowboy, get along with those who want to help you improve, and seek the proper experienced racers to assist your progression to a balanced driver. Negative comments, "flaming" will only alienate you and turn off your access to the real instructors who will help you.

I wish you all the best. You are driving a beautifully balanced vehicle with great capability.

Have fun, go fast, and Be Safe!