Larry's turbo kit....the new horizon!?!

[jackmac]

Hi fellow NSX onwers,
I have been recieving quite a few emails regarding Larry's turbo kit setup, and I thought I might as well do a little up-to-date review, and chim in some of my impressions.
As you guys know, I have been running the prototype kit for about 8 months now (for new onwers, plz do a search on previous posts). I was brave enough to step up for the challenge, and be the first few onwers to actually have the prototype kit installed on my car. However, all my intial fears diminsed and my expectations fulfilled when I got back my car 8 months ago. No maintience needed except intial tuning, no signs of overheating, great visibility, quick spool, and decent power and driveability. Most of the guys know that the NSX is my only car (daily driver). So I really enjoyed my car up until now... Larry from NSX modified changed my pipings and the postion of the turbo recently (bout 1 wk ago) and the car is just amazing! For those who are reading this post might think I am bit farfetched, but this is no joke. It has exceeded way beyond my expectations, and much more. I gave couple of onwers some rides already, and they were all impressed (that was when the boost was set at 2 pounds). Few days ago, Larry adjusted my wastegate and tuned the car for it to handle 6-7psi. After I drove my car around the block, I smiled at Larry and told him, "Larry this is a bit too much, be gentle on me will you." Sure, I have ridden and driven different forced inductions (Comptech, GruppeM, Vortech superchargers) but Larry's turbo is definately a neck-breaking expereience LOL!


Just stopped by Larry's today and asked him about the pricing and specs of the turbo kit. This is what he basically told me. The turbo kit is gonna be 5100$installed (perhaps there could be group discount?!?). The kit includes a T3/T4 garret single turbo cermaic coated ball bearing, RC injectors, aftermarket air filter, polished pipes, HKS blow-off valve, upgraded oil lines, air fuel meter, boost gauge, split second timing control, aftermarket feul pressure regulator. For people who live on the wild side. Larry can rebuild your engine to your needs, and go for higher boost (10-12 psi daily driver). A customer who has a rebuild engine is getting his turbo back soon, and is gonna run 12 psi. The car will be dynoed as soon when everything is completed. Larry wants the car to run nearly perfect before taking it to the dyno.

For people who are interested in seeing the new setup, I will be taking my car to the next meeting at NSX modified. I really NEEED to borrow a dig. camera so I can post some pics online...can somone help me out?!?


Just want to let you guys know that I am not writing this post because I want to prove something, or to start a war online. I want to share some of my feelings as well as some concerns for some potentail customers who might be interested in the kit. If my post do offend any of you guys, I apologize in advance. I am still getting used to the power, and should be well-adjusted to my car by next meeting. Hopefully, I will have a chance to meet some new owners. But plz, I really need some help posting pics.
Take care,
JACK

 

[CiaoBoy]

Thanks for posting, Jack. I'm sure everyone is curious about Larry's turbo offering.

I'll be the first to shoot some questions.

1. Is it a stealth setup or do you have to lose the engine cover?

2. Are you going to have trouble passing CA emissions?

-CiaoBoy

 

[jackmac]

Hi Boy,
I have answer to your questions...
1) You do need to remove the engine cover in order to fit the turbo kit. If you really want the "stealth" look, here is a possible option, as I had done on mine. Tint the rear glass, and have the pipings for the turbo to be powdercoated black instead of an polished finish. I really want to post a pic of my setup but as mentioned, I do need to borrow a dig. camera from someone.
2) Good question, you need to find someone that can pass your visual (Larry?!? hint hint) and ask someone to fit your stock cat. converter back on. It should be able to pass.
Hope this helps,
JACK

 

[DamonBoost]

I have a few questions if you could please answer or ask Larry for me. I would greatly appreciate it. I was gonna give him a call but I have heard he is one hard man to get in touch with. =)

-Is the manifold Log Style, Tubular, or Cast Iron? Can you get me any pics of the manifold, I am curious to what it looks like and how it flows.

-Can the setup be used with an Air to Air Intercooler?

-What is the fuel setup? Chipped ECU? FMU? Does it use an FMU at all?

-Can you explain the "split second timing control" I expect this affects timing under boost but am not sure.

This might very well make me keep my NSX =)

Thanks so much for your time and help!

 

[jackmac]

Damon,
Let me try my best to answer your questions. Hope you understand I am no expert, so my answers might be a litte choppy.

1) As I mentioned, I need to borrow a dig. camera in order to take some pics. I will take some pics. of the manifold once I get the camera.
2) As for the intercooler, Larry does a possible option for water-air intercooler from Spearco racing. Why would you want an air-air if you can get a water-air? As for the cost, I have to find that out. But intercooler IMO is not really necessary, as over-heating rarely happens even with long drives and rush hour traffic. Maybe for track use?
3) Yes, the split second timing controller does help to retard the timing and prevent possible detonation.
4) The feul setup does use an FMU and an aftermarket feul pressure regulator.
Hope this helps,
JACK

 

[DamonBoost]

Thanks... I am curious if that uses the Vortech FMU or the Vortech Super FMU.. Just a little tidbit on Vortech, we ordered an SFMU that arrived today from Vortech for a customers car. They forgot to include some important parts, so I called em.. Well their policy is to only ship it out 4-day.. Even if they mess up.. Sorry to Rant..

Back to the important stuff.. LOL..
I wanted the Air to Air IC because like you said there really isnt any over heating issues so the Water-Air might not be necessary. It is more expensive in general and also more expensive to repair. With 5psi like you said there shouldnt be any cooling issues so I didnt want overkill...

Thanks so much for the help..I cant wait to get pics of the manifold.. =) Let me know when you have em.

 

[D'Ecosse]

There may be no overheating issues per se but certainly you must be losing efficiency through the charge temperature not being cooled - how about Aquamist? This might be a good alternative, certainly doesn't take up much room (except for reservoir) & will definitely improve inlet charge temp & reduce detonation, therby allowing more boost & more power to be utilized.
Generally used on high boost applications in conjunction with an intercooler, but in an IC's absence, maybe makes a lot of sense? (or perhaps allow use a smaller IC that is less obtrusive on an NSX where engine bay space is limited)

 

[D'Ecosse]

FYI
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

 

[D'Ecosse]

(Apologies for serial postings here!)

Originally posted by jackmac:
But intercooler IMO is not really necessary, as over-heating rarely happens even with long drives and rush hour traffic. Maybe for track use?

Not sure if you have the operating conditions of turbo down Jack .... the scenarios you describe would not typically be on hard boost (rush- hour for sure not; long drives - canyon cruising with hard acceleration, similar to racing yes, but long drives equates to cruising speeds - again no/minimal boost)

 

[jackmac]

D Scoesse,
Thanks for the useful info on Aquamist. I will share this info with Larry and see what he has to say. As I mentioned, the intercooler is just an option. Different owners have different preferences.
JACK

 

[SexyRed]

What is the big deal with intercooler? The air filter located at side scoop should help cold air. Have you ridden in Larry's turbo yet (those saying needing intercooler). The timing is also retarded using split second retard controller.

 

[D'Ecosse]

Originally posted by SexyRed:
...The air filter located at side scoop should help cold air....

You're kidding, right?

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 25 October 2002).]

 

[Kyosuke8]

Intercooler converts hot air to cool air, thus, more cool air makes more HP. Running 6psi or less will not have any heating problems, but will lose some hp potential output due to the hot air.

Even if one decides to run more than 6 psi, it is not 100% safe for the internals of the motor. For example, like the pistons and rods, gaskets, and etc.

But certainly, any boost over 6 psi should have an intercooler with the set-up.

That's just my opinion.

-Garrett

------------------
"What's the middle pedal for?"

 

[5inchfatlip]

SexyRed-
An intercooler is used to cool the intake air AFTER being compressed and heated up by the turbos...A typical Intercooler will drop air intake temps. 70 degrees, bigger ones more, but then there is pressure drop due to the air flowing through the Intercooler.

The turbo compresses the incoming air thus producing more heat. No matter how cold the air is from the filter, it WILL get heated up when going through the turbo. The colder the air is when entering the combustion chamber= the more dense= more power, sometimes people use a NOS Shot to counteract the heating of the intake air more...

 

[true]

Cold air intake helps but the air gets heated when its compressed. You could run an intake pipe into a freezer and the air would still be hot after the turbocharger compresses it to 6psi. The intercooler does nothing but help. (lose a litte bit of velocity..nothing is free

) It's not neccessary, but like Kyosuke8 says cooler air = more power. If the intake air went right into the manifold it would make a difference (NA cold air intake), but do not forget that the act of compression is what generates the warmer temperatures...so a cold air intake will never act as an intercooler.


[This message has been edited by true (edited 26 October 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Lots of "hit and mis" in this information. For one thing, be very clear that intercoolers (and aftercoolers) are not there to cool the engine, so to say that the car never overheats even in traffic is completely irrelevant. As has been accurately stat5ed, they cool the intake charge, removing heat cause by compression and (not previously mentioned) coming from the turbo housing itself. When you run them hard the exhaust side of the turbo literally glows red hot. Some of that heat transfers through to the compressor housing and the air rushing through it.

As for cold air intake, of course it doesn’t replace an intercooler, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t lower intake temp. Cooler in equals cooler out. Ever driven a turbo anything on a hot day and then on a cold day? Most NSX “cool air” intakes are a waste of time on a stock normally aspirated engine, but if you add turbo plumbing to the engine compartment then pull air from there too, you’re asking for sub optimal performance at best and disaster at worst.

There is no magic boost level where an intercooler becomes necessary. If you’re pushing enough air to yield a significant power gain, an intercooler can make it better. OK, if you live in Siberia it may not be cost effective for low boost. On an NSX with stock internals I would be very nervous about running even 6psi without an intercooler. It can be done, but you will need to dial timing back quite a bit and run richer than I’d like, or risk detonation on hot days or when running hard for more than brief bursts.

I have an Aquamist and tried it on my TT NSX while dyno tuning. I have small (not terribly efficient) intercoolers and though the Aquamist might give me an extra safety margin, but during my tests I was unable to prove any benefit. The coolers seemed to be doing and adequate job under those conditions. I have used water injection with great success on older non-intercooled cars, but these days I’d say get an intercooler. I’m keeping the Aquamist, but I plan to use it’s 100psi pump to spray a fine mist on the intercooler fins rather than into the intake.

 

[D'Ecosse]

Excellent posts by Kyosuke8, True & SJS, all of which I am in agreement with for most part
(my "you're kidding" comment was one of incredulity rather than seeking affirmation

I am unconvinced of the effectiveness of so-called cold-air kits however, although am in no disagreement cold air is denser = better performance)

I am pretty confident, 5inchlip, that those running NOS shot are not doing it for cooling effect, although granted it will create some.

SJS You obviously know what you're doing but curious if you tried running leaner, less retarded with Aqaumist during your dyno tuning - what boost were you running?



[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 25 October 2002).]

 

[true]

[This message has been edited by true (edited 26 October 2002).]

 

[D'Ecosse]

[This message has been edited by D'Ecosse (edited 26 October 2002).]

 

[true]

[This message has been edited by true (edited 26 October 2002).]

 

[SexyRed]

I do understand that FI creates heat. My main question for all the question is under 6 psi is it even worth the expense or time to even consider intercooler; considering if you live in a climate that is always 75 degrees during the day, and low 50-60's during the nite.
Yes I am aware guys with supra tt w/bpu or apu running bigger/FMIC above 18psi.

 

[true]

Originally posted by SexyRed:
My main question for all the question is under 6 psi is it even worth the expense or time to even consider intercooler; considering if you live in a climate that is always 75 degrees during the day, and low 50-60's during the nite.

Yes.

 

[PKim]

Jack,
I've got a digital camera. We need to meet up.

Paul

 

[jackmac]

Paul,
Thanks for letting me know. Just pick the time and I will be there.
JACK

 

[Ether]

Originally posted by jackmac:
Paul,
Thanks for letting me know. Just pick the time and I will be there.
JACK

Did you guys ever get any pictures..??