Logical Intercooler Location?

[Juice]

So there has been a lot of debate regarding the different design parameters of how to best turbo a NSX. A lot of turbo function comes down to plumbing configuration, which is dictated by space constraints and engine placement. While neither of these two parameters change from NSX-to-NSX, we still invariably see drastically different design elements used from one setup to the next. While I see this as a celebration of variable enthusiast ingenuity, it has led to some, 'ahem, heated debate.

A lot of this disparity comes from different ideologies and theory on how to best cool the charged air in order to reduce IATs. (I'm admittedly a n00b, so correct me if I'm wrong here.) We have all seen any number of various cooling methods used, whether A2A, W2A, front mount, rear mount, top mount, trunk mount, etc. In my eyes, the cooling method invariably dictates the plumbing and is the only constant variable (paradox :tongue.

So I pose this question to those who know better than I - why hasn't a single system tried to use the dual side scoops, one or both, in order to place an intercooler? Now I know the first thing to be said is the lack of space or the lack of air flow, but I keep thinking a narrow cooler with a rear mounted fan would work – a la Lexus LFA. I am fixated on this prospect and need to hear all the logic as to why this valuable real estate has gone utterly unused, especially in the FI field.

 

[NSX-Files]

So I pose this question to those who know better than I - why hasn't a single system tried to use the dual side scoops, one or both, in order to place an intercooler? Now I know the first thing to be said is the lack of space or the lack of air flow, but I keep thinking a narrow cooler with a rear mounted fan would work – a la Lexus LFA. I am fixated on this prospect and need to hear all the logic as to why this valuable real estate has gone utterly unused, especially in the FI field.

I thought about this too. I thought about routing hoses (like brake duct hoses) or pipes directly from the vents (from a cold air intake type duct) fed rearward to blow onto rear mounted air-to-air intercoolers. But I suspect the vents wouldn't flow enough volume of air to adequately cool the ATA intercoolers. Maybe if you added the Downforce scoops that stick out from the fenders more? Or maybe, as you said, use fans in conjunction with the side scoops to cool water heat exchangers that are plumbed to a water-to-air chargecooer? My old Lotus Esprit SE Turbo had a nice chargecooler directly connected to the turbo outlet. It seemed to work well.

 

[lowellhigh79]

Aside from airflow, the space in the rear quarter panel is too tight if you want to place your potential A2A IC right up against the opening. It would also need to be a double pass design as both entry and exit are coming off the top to the IC. There is potentially room above/behind the fender liner but the IC would need to be long and narrow which presents two limitations: restriction and fins that are directed perpendicular to the flow of air. Further aft and road debris becomes an issue.

I once suggested to a friend who wanted to go the A2A route a top mounted A2A IC placed inside a clam shell top similar to the targa roof carrier. Inside this enclosure would be the A2A IC, a slim line radiator fan (FAL) on top and large 4-4" or 2-6" hoses/ducts on both sides of the bottom panel drawing air from the side vents. The shell would isolate the IC to minimize heat soak but have a large enough opening(s) in the bottom to exhaust the air blown by the fan.

The problem becomes much easier to solve with wide body panels (should be enough room), lexan hatch (an Australian NSX had dual A2A IC mounted up against slits in the lexan hatch).

If you are thinking dual ICs, I think piping becomes extremely difficult to route and keep at equal length. Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

Best Regards,

Danny

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

A2A intercooler in the pass side fender duct is a appealing idea but like Juice said it isn't easy and maybe not that practical. unless you are going wide body (04-05 Super GT style would be perfect for that)

rear hatch duct is a nice place but there isn't room.

Also depends on how much work your willing to do and how extreme you want to go a Mugen style JGTC intake would allow for a nice air feed to a intercooler.

That's the Mugen style JGTC intake we sell from TaiTec.


Maybe adding air cooling vin's on the ic piping is a idea where it can catch air (Spoon and ARC make mesh that would aid air cooling).

 

[Juice]

The real issue I take with an ATA located against the hatch is the loss of visibility. If somebody is willing to go that route (and trust me, I've thought about it) then they have two truths looking them in the eye: First, you might as well remove your rear view mirror and toss it up on Prime Parts for Sale because you will never see out your rear window ever again. Second, you had better be willing to have every cop and fanboy track you down and test your patience. While I enjoy the idea of going down the "JGTC path" and throwing on a snorkel design, I will refer back to Danny when he made the comment that something is "lost in translation". We do not run a longitudinal setup, nor are we required to run restrictors; both being the real reason that the snorkel was chosen for the JGTC NSXs.

So what type of intercooler designs are out there? I understand that fitting a conventional ATA might be impractical. Are there any intercoolers that use a siphoning design that draws air through the center of a heat exchanger? I have seen this principle used in liquid cooling technology, but never air. Can anybody point me to a website where I can self educate myself on various intercoolers and design philosophies of each?

 

[whrdnsx]

I believe the Lemans NSX had intercoolers in the rear quarter panels. but they also had moved the engine to make this easier.

I'd like to see some more detailed pictures of the Lemans nsx if anyone has any.

 

[menfou]

On the movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jFRi4ZiOz8, we can see 2 intercooler in each side.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

That setup would make sense with a NSX-RGT ducts to aid ram effect but still space is a issue then a BRS Auto body kit could help with it's much larger 04 JGTC intake - RITMO also made a custom body once with a huge intake.

To illustrate:

2004 JGTC

2005 SuperGT

 

[lowellhigh79]

Intake scoops are too small for functioning as the only air inlet to cool an A2A IC. This was previously discussed where a large (let's say 12x24-it's probably bigger) A2A top-mount IC was being cooled via an NSXR-GT hatch scoop. Given that the opening is 6x10 (it's probably smaller), airflow at 60 mph is roughly equal to 12.5 mph if the same A2A IC was fully exposed in a front mount position. I suspect any A2A IC application will only find enough cooling airflow in an exposed position, say behind the hatch on top of a custom rear deck. Lower positions will have issues with poor airflow, debris and proximity to hot exhaust components.

Regards,

Danny

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Here's my awesome and brilliant idea. Make a wheel with hollow spokes and run your air through all 4 wheels. As the wheel spins, it will cool down. The faster you go, the cooler the air!!! And if you run though a puddle, look out!!!

Now don't go and copy my awesome idea! You heard it here first; patent pending! :biggrin::tongue::biggrin::tongue:

 

[lowellhigh79]

Here's my awesome and brilliant idea. Make a wheel with hollow spokes and run your air through all 4 wheels. As the wheel spins, it will cool down. The faster you go, the cooler the air!!! And if you run though a puddle, look out!!!

Now don't go and copy my awesome idea! You heard it here first; patent pending! :biggrin::tongue::biggrin::tongue:

B, just paint it Satin Black cuz we all know dat jus too coooool. Better yet, attach a baseball card to each caliper. Besides the cool tat! tat! tat!, the card will deflect more air at the hollow spokes AND clean off the mud after the puddle encounter:biggrin:

Danny

 

[Santorican]

Logical location would be at the lowest point in the car towards the middle of the chassis with the most airflow possible

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

Here is a picture of the new shop car.

We deviated from our usual "center mount" design for testing purposes at the track. You can see individual heat exchangers in front of each AC condenser. The water is plumbed through both units and back to our proprietary intercooler mounting position, which several others are now replicating. The twin heat exchanger runs cooler all around and we will be offering this as an option for those who regularly track their cars.

This location allows us to increase core sizing for large HP builds and also allows minimal piping length which decreases spooltime. One of the biggest attributes to this intercooler placement is that it's subtle and out of the way. Should any major maintenence have to be performed, the WAIC does not have to be drained to work on the car, which would be the case with an engine-bay mounted intercooler.

 

[nsxinkl]

Here is a picture of the new shop car.

The photo is not showing. Please update the link.

 

[sca037]

The photo is not showing. Please update the link.

Holy 2-year threadbump :biggrin:

Brian