Losing an NSX the Hard Way

Wait a minute - he just has to find another NSX just like the one he has and that should show the Insurance co. everything they need for a comparo. You need another NSX. But I would say that a 993 TT would be a really nice car - but they are still rather expensive. You can get the latest model NSX for what a good 993TT would cost you.

My 2 cents.
 
Sorry to hear about your wife's illness and your situation. I would try and see about finding another clean nsx, and maybe purchase yours from the insurance co. Since your old car has so much character and value, I would find it hard to let go of it. I am sure you could find a nice mechanic to work on your car...even if it is not a certified dealership.
 
Gary (simsgw),

My sympathies for your frustrating experience. Besides the loss of vehicle with sentimental value, you've lost a trusted relationship with the dealer and experienced the sting of betrayal (or whatever would be the appropriate term for the dealership's actions). Not fun.

May you and Cindy get this behind you soon (hopefully with appropriate compensation) so you can get back to enjoying life together. Based on the wisdom expressed in your posts, I suspect that that doesn't require (nor preclude) an NSX or other sports car.
 
I may just take you up on that, jetpilot. I admit I'm having trouble reconciling myself to another type of car. Other supercars are too damn finicky to just enjoy living with them. Even the Porsche, with its reputation for long life, has an appalling list of "common failures." Since I wrote that last note I picked up a couple of books to help me choose the right model 911 and I am astonished at the jury-rigged engineering that must be tolerated by their owners. One year, if you came in complaining of finicky handling, they had 24 lb steel weights they would put in the front bumper. One on either side, and call it a suspension adjustment. That forward weight -- not centered mind you, but necessarily split to either corner -- became a factory "reinforced bumper" in the next model year to tame the handling.

Being an engineer, my first resort was naturally to books on the engineering of alternatives. The 911 in this case, and I tell you with no hyperbole that I wouldn't consider a 911 from the years when I was an underpaid fan and drooling over them in showrooms occasionally. I wouldn't buy anything older than 2005 when the entire structure and drive train were re-engineered and then I wouldn't consider one that wasn't a "certified used car." I feel like I would need a ground crew to operate a 911, so it better come with the ground crew pre-paid for a few years if I absolutely must. But... must I really? I keep wondering.

I am gradually feeling Cindy out on my having "an NSX of my own" to replace hers, to see if it wakens grief or if she might just enjoy riding in a type of car she has trusted for years.

Always understanding that I may have to back out and buy a less acceptable alternative if this idea upsets Cindy too much, can I take you up on that offer to help find a new NSX? If we find one, I'll put it to her as a serious proposition and gauge her reaction.

I would want an NA2, like our first one, and with pretty low miles. Nothing more than 30,000 roughly and even less is preferable. I remember seeing a few with twenty or less advertised in our pages in the past but can't find them tonight. To help Cindy think of it as "Gary's car" instead of an attempt to replace her own, the visible headlights might be a good idea, so... what is that? A 2002 and later?

As for color... well, a very old saying is that "No good horse is a bad color" and it's true of sports cars as well. I don't say Imola Orange would be my personal first choice, but I won't even rule that out if its the right car. If I had my druthers, as my Kentucky grandma used to say, well, I suppose red on black would make my heart thump a little faster. But as I say, the color isn't as important as the car.

Uh... Help?

Gary

Gary I just noticed this 98 on Ebay with only 21,000miles...:smile:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998...ewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4a9c393b04
 
Sorry to hear that Gary, from your post, you are a good man with integrity. With that said...

A few things in your situation sticked to my mind and I'm kind of enraged:

1. Your wife and you serviced the nsx in this dealership for 10 years, and maybe bought the car from them?
2. "Senior" service writer promised to drive customer's car with a skinny spare tire, and procceed to challenge the mechanical grip of the car.
3. Both the GM and SM came and hugged your wife to comfort her, gave you guys hope and promise
4. Then "the owner" of the dealership hammered you down and pretty much go without saying "sued me". Probably knowing your age and health condition, you won't do it anyway...

I work for a family based dealership that's been around for 30 yrs, and the 2-3-4 just not the way customer should be treated. Any customer, not to mention one as loyal as you wife did.

Should have let more nsx owners in your area involved, this is just very very wrong. I think report to BBB and/or your local tv station will make it very interesting. Also Acura/American Honda will be very interested to investigate this incident; and that you guys were yelled at by "the owner".

the logic of his "it can happen to anyone"; ok, let me go to their dealership, get his demo, and run the car into his showroom. (I messed up the gas/brake pedal, it could happen to anyone) well, this is childish, but his reasoning just doesn't fly.

good luck on your Porsche purchase; sad to see a nsx owner jumped honda ship, i guessed it's life. If you have to choose Porsche, maybe a late model cayman?? That will be the closest car that drives like a nsx (handling wise).
 
I agree, I think this is a good news media coverage for what a dealership should not be doing.

Anyone have access to CBS, Kcal9 or Fox?

Don't let this dealership shaft you.
 
Don't let this dealership shaft you.

Life's too short. I'll settle for the quiet satisfaction of knowing they will get a bill for forty odd thousand from my insurance company. USAA have people who specialize, who spend their professional life, making sure such companies reqret their actions. I don't know if that includes incontinent dogs...

Gary
 
Thats cool, well I am glad you're getting taken care of.....I still think they should get some bad press on the local news.

The name of the dealership is where you live....thats not hard to figure out V......a Acura.
 
The name of the dealership is where you live....thats not hard to figure out V......a Acura.

That's the one. Actually we live fifty miles northeast in the desert, but that's the place. Now I think of it, I mean fifty miles as the sane person limps along on freeways, using a mini-spare. By light aircraft, it would be something like 30 nautical miles I suppose. And somewhere between those two extremes the way that damn fool tried to take our car.
 
Could you post the VIN for the salvage records?

The only Porsche I would consider is a Cayman, but I learned on an earlier car that I greatly prefer a mid-engined vehicle.

Now, if someone wants to provide an Audi R8, I wouldn't turn that down either. They still run a bit out of my daily driver price range though.

But right now I'm considering a newer NSX.
 
BJ:
Thanks for the post- which contains links to the owner's email (s).
Whaddya think, Primers?

I've been thinking about it but think Gary should weigh in on any of use e-mailing the dealership. Would not want to get in his way of legal actions or his desire to let it go and move on to his 911S. I'm hoping Gary keeps us posted on this dealership getting what it deserves......
 
I've been thinking about it but think Gary should weigh in on any of use e-mailing the dealership. Would not want to get in his way of legal actions or his desire to let it go and move on to his 911S. I'm hoping Gary keeps us posted on this dealership getting what it deserves......

Agreed, this is his axe to grind. Once it is resolved to his satisfaction he should let us know.
 
Could you post the VIN for the salvage records?

Sure. How do I do that? Just mention it here? JH4NA2169XT000068

Damn. Just realized I can do that from memory.<SIGH>

The only Porsche I would consider is a Cayman, but I learned on an earlier car that I greatly prefer a mid-engined vehicle.

Now, if someone wants to provide an Audi R8, I wouldn't turn that down either. They still run a bit out of my daily driver price range though.

USAA gave us enough for our car plus a low interest loan to cover anything up to about an S5 or a Mercedes CLS550 or E550, including the punitive California tax and license.

I went to a forum group called 6Speed and lurked on the Audi S5 forum and the Porsche Cayman and 997 forums. (997 is like our NA1 and NA2, the manufacturer's code for the chassis design. 997 is the latest design of their normally aspirated rear engine line, the ten Carrera models.)

The folks on the S5 forum spent over half their time talking about ways to deal with a design flaw in the latest model and bitching that the factory is so slow to fix blatant examples under warranty. That worried me, so I looked up the service bulletin and discovered they weren't just kvetching. Audi requires the dealer to try three progressively more ludicrous wheel balancing techniques before they will cover replacement of a defective steering link under warranty. And each attempt is to include the owner spending at least a week driving the car and still returning to complain. Lots of those complaining had bought their cars in the last 90 days.

We cancelled our appointment to test drive Audis.

I can't report on how they compare... well, the sedans don't compare to an NSX at all and the R8 would have required our adding a chunk of cash that soured the idea for me. Somehow a CPO R8 didn't ring my chimes. Besides, after reading that service bulletin, I don't want anything to do with the manufacturer. Forgive me, those of you who have an Audi for a second or third car, but I couldn't see buying into a bad situation that I knew about ahead of time.

So we planned to visit a Porsche dealership and Mercedes dealership that are near each other about fifty miles away and do some serious testing. (This bothered the dealers not at all. When you've just lost an NSX and say you want another car, they assume you're in the market for anything on their lot.)

Once we chose the type car we wanted, we had appointments at four other Porsche dealerships and two Mercedes dealerships. We are recovering from Swine Flu effects and going "down the hill" is a wearing process, so we were determined to find a new car that day and not prolong the agony. You know, like Audi is doing to their owners of brand new S5's?

We never got past the first Porsche dealership. We drove the Cayman, an older 911 and a new one. We selected a newish 911, the 997 chassis, as our kind of car without bothering to even visit Mercedes. I just called and cancelled those appointments. After trying a couple of CPO Porsches, we told the sales manager (who had met us and was the one dealing with us) that we hadn't seen anything that grabbed us and we had three other dealers we'd promised to visit. (Actually, I made sure to have one of the other dealers on my cell phone when he walked over.)

This motivated him to take me to a nearly new CPO car six rows back in their storage lot. When I expressed a vague interest, he had guys moving cars for twenty minutes to get it out. Meanwhile, he 'found' a new 911 as well on his inventory with all the options in which we had shown interest. Porsches are what NSX could be if Honda had ever had an interest in being a sports car provider instead of just building the NSX to stick one up Ferrari's nose. Besides the obvious model ranges like Boxster and Cayman and Cayenne and Carrera, the Carrera alone comes in a range that goes from 'simple' 95k cars up to $150,000 toyboxes on wheels. Our taste had settled around the 100k range, but he offered us that new one for the same price as the slightly used one: $86,000 out the door. In California, those last three words are very significant.

We drove the slightly used one, a 997.2 or the latest model of the 997 chassis. New engine version, new gearbox, and new computer controlled suspension. It reminded me of the NSX more than anything else we'd driven so far. Nice intuitive shift action, progressive throttle that makes it possible to show finesse, and that smooth but exciting run from a rolling start up to 120 or so without noticing the transition at any point. Alright, I didn't plan that last figure. Even on a car test, that's serious speed in California on a freeway. You might get away with it out here in the desert because the sheriff just looks the other way if you've chosen a deserted road. But on a freeway? Yikes. I could have spent a night in jail until our lawyer moved some paper.

You see that latest model has about twenty percent more displacement than our beloved NA2 and with the same smooth rush of power on the top end, I was caught off guard. It was dark by then, and "I couldn't find the damn speedometer, officer. Honest." It's true. The tach is twice as big and dead center, but the speedometer is next door, siamesed, with scant markings and five ticks up turns out to mean 125. I'm used to a speedometer that goes to 180 of course, so a 200-mph one shouldn't matter. But the designers compressed the range to about where our 140 mph reading would put the needle. So a reasonable 85 or 90 mph position of the needle on our car is in fact 125 on that toy speedometer. "Can I just take my wife to a hotel before we go, officer?"<SIGH>

Anyway, that seductive smoothness is just what we enjoy with the NA2, except with an extra hundred horsepower. Like one of our turbos. Yowza.

86k was about fifteen more than we came prepared to spend, but Cindy insisted this was my super car. She had already had hers, and of course her NSX cost even more. So, strictly to be a good husband, I let her buy it for me, contributing the cash from her service account for the NSX.

Then the question was which one. The silver one designated 911S with 385 hp and the dinky speedometer,but with eleven months service? Or the brand new one in black that was only a standard 911 and with only 345 hp? We talked while they were getting the new one out for us to inspect. Turned out it was in a tight stack in the overhead indoor storage and the guys had already left that manuevered cars in that building. Sales Manager: "What I'll do if you want the new one is let you go home tonight. Monday, I'll put it on a flatbed up to the high desert and your home. You test drive it as you will with no obligation. If your don't like it, come back and let us try to find you one you like better."

Besides the fact that the car business is pushing hard right now, it was very obvious at every dealership that owning an NSX is an entree to any other car you care to consider. Just saying.

Naturally, being sensible old people, we opted for the silver one. Easier to keep clean in the desert you know. The extra forty horsepower and the chance to drive it home that night instead of the Hertzmobile had nothing to do with it. It was interesting that when I did the math, the new one at the same price was actually a better deal financially. Backing out the tax and license and doc fees and all that crap, the selling price was about $2,800 under the "actual dealer's cost after holdbacks, et al" that USAA had estimated for the model with those options. But we needed that easily cleaned silver color you see. Hehe.

We ended up adding as much cash as would have gotten us into a new R8 or one of the Mercedes roadsters, but the Porsche just felt right. (I allow for the difference between mid-engine and rear-engine automatically. I raced Formula Fords, which are as tail happy as you could wish.) This latest Porsche Carrera feels like our NSX should feel with another ten years development that we've lost. Just as smooth and civilized when you need to play dignified or your wife doesn't feel good, but a serious supercar -- on any type of road -- with no limit on speed this side of jail.

I am not going to be sucked into track days. I am not. I'm not. I'm...

We're not going to quit mourning RAINBBY, Cindy's lovely NSX, but the healing process has begun.

Gary
 
I've been thinking about it but think Gary should weigh in on any of use e-mailing the dealership. Would not want to get in his way of legal actions or his desire to let it go and move on to his 911S. I'm hoping Gary keeps us posted on this dealership getting what it deserves......

This is a very tempting idea for Cindy. So I won't tell her. In general I've found that it pays to move on with your life in such situations. People who behave like that get what they deserve eventually. And it's better for your own life to not let their behavior drag you down into the dumps.

Usually they "get theirs" in a gratifyingly short time. No, I'll just settle for knowing that USAA is going to present the Flemings with a very polite and very firm demand (backed up by more lawyers than we can afford) for forty-some thousand unless they get a remarkable price at auction for Cindy's NSX. At best, they are going to be out something in the high thirties, as well as a somewhat tarnished reputation at Acura Corporate, who have been involved in this trying to persuade Cheri to be more reasonable. And of course, this incident has been discussed enough here that search engines will return this thread whenever someone considers where to buy an Acura, let alone all the NSX owners who keep up with the best places to get their baby serviced. And of course the story had gotten around to most of the folks at our country club already and when I show up with a new Carrera after Thanksgiving, simple courtesy will require me to explain to the others the reason we gave up our NSX, and...

But I wouldn't want to be vindictive. So I've persuaded Cindy to settle for that. (She really wants me to push for USAA providing her with a copy of the letter to Cheri Fleming. Maybe I'll frame it for Christmas if they act soon enough. Or Valentine's day if not. Did I mention her original wish to blow up one of the crumpled photos and pay for a billboard in Valencia?) Word of mouth will bite Valencia Acura pretty thoroughly I suspect. Even after the generous settlement from USAA, we're out a couple of thousand at least, but life's too short to bother suing Valencia Acura for things like that. And if we keep including the name in our posts, the search engines are sure to find this discussion. But let's not be vindictive.

Gary, bereaved, but it's only a car [sob]
 
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Congrats Gary and Cindy. You are a class act Gary - I hope to never be in a similar situation but If I am then I hope I am a class act as you.

BTW, Congrats on the 997. You will ABSOLUTEY LOVE IT!! IMHO the best Porsches ever built are the 2004 MY and newer. The 997 is by far the best 911 EVER made. You will quickly figure that out.

Last time I took my 997 GT3 to the track I was bitching about the poor Nav to my buddy/instructor said and I quote "Its a damn race car, quit bitching and drive it like you stole it!":tongue:

Congrats again.

Ritesh
 
Congrats Gary and Cindy. You are a class act Gary - I hope to never be in a similar situation but If I am then I hope I am a class act as you.

BTW, Congrats on the 997. You will ABSOLUTEY LOVE IT!! IMHO the best Porsches ever built are the 2004 MY and newer. The 997 is by far the best 911 EVER made. You will quickly figure that out.

Last time I took my 997 GT3 to the track I was bitching about the poor Nav to my buddy/instructor said and I quote "Its a damn race car, quit bitching and drive it like you stole it!":tongue:

Congrats again.

Ritesh

I'm laughing out loud here, Ritesh. Probably the first time I've laughed about the situation since it happened. Lots of other laughter in a busy life, but not when we were talking about the recent... 'bereavement' if you will.

I was thinking yesterday while I was driving the 997 that it does manage to feel almost as 'together' as an NSX and more powerful of course. Like an NSX with ten years of chassis development, but with the nav system and other electronics in what pilots call "the stack" not quite sorted out yet. Last night, I ran across Gordon Murray's article about the NSX and I was damning the Porsche for taking ten years and having to use computer control to get the suspension to feel as good as an NSX. "And the damned Bluetooth phone still doesn't work right!" (I haven't had occasion to use the nav yet.)

You just gave me another perspective. It is a bloody NSX descendant, and both are essentially race cars taught manners and invited into the parlor. First time I drove that rental NSX in Las Vegas, I told Cindy it felt just like my Formula Ford with leather seats and air conditioning. It was the NSX that shook Porsche and Ferrari out their complacency, and it's certain that a current year NSX would use as much computer control as the 997 does. More if that were possible, since the Japanese just love computerized cars.

As for the Bluetooth..."Its a damn race car, quit bitching and drive it like you stole it!":tongue:

I will do that very thing.

Good night all,

Gary
 
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