MBA program - night/part-time/full-time?

[White98LS]

I may be jumping the gun a bit, as I have just graduated with a BA in Finance from the U. of Washington and am only on my 3rd week at a good corporate finance job. However, it has always been my plan to get an MBA in 2-3 years and I like to have an idea of what I'm going to do in the future. I know there are a lot of successful MBAs here and I'd like to know what program - executive, evening, full-time, etc. - you did and why? I'm trying to find the best fit as far as stress/finances/learning go. While I may go to a different school if I get into a better one out of state, it is fairly likely that I may end up at UW again, which will be about $6k/qtr for tuition by the time I'm ready to go back... of course out of state would be a ton more. Here is what they offer as an example:

Full-Time MBA: 6 qtrs, every day
Pros: Can focus most on schoolwork, cheapest, shortest
Cons: Would lose out on a whole lot of income and spend savings, as well as not keeping my position/status in the company

Evening MBA: 8-10 qtrs, 2 nights/wk
Pros: Keeps professional life going, not a huge load of class time
Cons: 8-10 qtrs = expensive

Executive MBA: 21 months (Sep-Jun), 3 or 4 nights/week OR every Fri+Sat
Pros: Shorter duration than Evening, can keep job, flexible scheduling
Cons: Heaviest school/work load of all

From what I've heard, MBA coursework definitely keeps you busy, so I don't know how people manage to fit it in with work as well... I don't mind working hard, but I am also the type of guy that values living in his 20's and doesn't want to be stressed out non-stop for 2-3 years. So that scares me about the evening/executive programs. I could go full-time because I have saved enough to easily cover living expenses for those 2 years, but as a finance major I know that losing those savings this early in life is going to hurt a lot later because I'll lose out on so much compounding interest opportunity. I just got a condo split financially 50/50 with my parents, so it would be a big chunk of money coming out of a funds I have saved so early in life. I should mention my current workplace gives $3,500/yr compensation for education, so that's a plus for doing an evening or executive program.

What did you or would you do?

 

[BioBanker]

I would go full time. I did. It will be over sooner, you'll be making more dough sooner. And you will have a better experience.

Many of those who I watched work all day, do the Exec MBA at night, didnt finish. Its bloody murder and while its only 2/3 nights of class, its 10 nights of work.

Plus, you may be able to get your employer to pay for your full time program IF you stay for X years after. If you will loose everthing you've worked for, head back to school and find a place that treats its employees better when you graduate.

 

[Racing Roman]

I'd do it part time and work full time. Most employers pay for it but do not require a committment to stay after you're done. This way you're still earning money and not spending it yourself, plus you're still getting work experience.

I would also wait at least a year or two before starting the MBA program because most of your classes will be "discussion" types of formats where you will be using real life scenarios to put together all your case studies. I noticed that when I went to school, the folks that did it right after their BS didn't have much to share versus the rest of us that had been working for a few years.

Finally, when you do graduate, you'll still have a bunch of work experience to go with your MBA which will translate to higher pay when you jump to another job/company. Most employers (if you work and go to school at the same time) will not give you a bump in pay or promotion, just because you got your degree. They will look at you as "the company paid for your education and now you want a raise?".

Anyway, good luck...Roman

 

[Ski_Banker]

Kinda goes without saying, but keep in mind what you are paying for: A brand name and, to a much lesser extent, a network. The "learning" you can do on your own. That said, a part-time program at a lame school, whether paid for or not, would likely be a waste of time. Consider getting your CFA charter in the interim, if you want to do buy side public investing or sell side research.

 

[pvmike]

Kinda goes without saying, but keep in mind what you are paying for: A brand name and, to a much lesser extent, a network. The "learning" you can do on your own. That said, a part-time program at a lame school, whether paid for or not, would likely be a waste of time. Consider getting your CFA charter in the interim, if you want to do buy side public investing or sell side research.

Great advice.

 

[splitz]

I did full time MBA, full time job. As long as you are willing to dedicate 25 hours a day to work and school you can graduate in 2.5 years too!

 

[NsXMas]

nuthin but full time for me.

if you're not married, there's no reason for you not to go full time.

 

[White98LS]

nuthin but full time for me.

if you're not married, there's no reason for you not to go full time.

No reason? I thought I listed a couple pretty darn good reasons! But anyway, could you elaborate on why you liked going full-time so much better?

Thanks for the advice so far. You all seem split pretty evenly between going for broke and doing both at the same time, or taking the time to go full-time so that you don't absolutely kill yourself. I myself am a hard worker but I admit that there are plenty who work harder. My sister for example is done with med school and is now doing the 80-hour-weeks-for-5-years residency thing - I could never do that. So it would seem that trying to manage work and school (mind you, I did work every qtr. of college, but this is rather more extreme) would be one hell of a challenge for me, but the idea of 6 quarters of no income and having to pay for living expenses (incl. mortgage) AND $20k/yr for school (and that's IF I stay in-state) really do scare me.

 

[Ski_Banker]

nuthin but full time for me.

if you're not married, there's no reason for you not to go full time.

Completely agree - it's not a race, who cares if you are 35 or 37 at any given point in your career?

For the O.P., don't worry about it right now, you just graduated. Just do everything you can to get into the best school possible, and make these decisions at that time. Full time HBS versus evening local no-name U is a much different decision.

 

[White98LS]

Completely agree - it's not a race, who cares if you are 35 or 37 at any given point in your career?

For the O.P., don't worry about it right now, you just graduated. Just do everything you can to get into the best school possible, and make these decisions at that time. Full time HBS versus evening local no-name U is a much different decision.

I wouldn't call it a no-name, it was #18 I believe last year. But yeah I get what you're saying and it makes sense. I like to have a plan laid out for myself, but I guess at this point it's just too hard and too pointless to try figuring out. I'm incredibly happy where I'm at right now and this job will get me very good experience for the future. Thanks everyone.

 

[jonas1jp]

I am currently working on an MBA online. Any university of worth (and some of terrible worth) has an online MBA program. Indiana University was #23 on the Graduate Business Schools list last year, and their online program is ranked #1 in the nation. The great thing is, you get the same degree as on campus students do. There are no class times, just assigned work every week. Group work via conference calls and Skype, and term projects are a given. It is not easy by any stretch of the imagination; an average of 4-6 hours a night, some classes even more than that. I'm one year into a 2 year, 2 month program. It's hard, but if it was easy everyone would do it. Suck it up and bust your ass, it will be worth it..............so I'm told.

 

[NsXMas]

No reason? I thought I listed a couple pretty darn good reasons! But anyway, could you elaborate on why you liked going full-time so much better?

Thanks for the advice so far. You all seem split pretty evenly between going for broke and doing both at the same time, or taking the time to go full-time so that you don't absolutely kill yourself. I myself am a hard worker but I admit that there are plenty who work harder. My sister for example is done with med school and is now doing the 80-hour-weeks-for-5-years residency thing - I could never do that. So it would seem that trying to manage work and school (mind you, I did work every qtr. of college, but this is rather more extreme) would be one hell of a challenge for me, but the idea of 6 quarters of no income and having to pay for living expenses (incl. mortgage) AND $20k/yr for school (and that's IF I stay in-state) really do scare me.

Going part time while working is HARD.

Being able to focus on your MBA full time makes it a memorable experience, not to mention you get done earlier and quicker.

I was able to take advantage of my full time status by going to live in Europe for 6 months while taking graduate classes.

I have many friends who lament going part time because if their work requires travel, the MBA classes get in the way. Same thing with girlfriends, wives, kids - gets in the way of no social life required for working full time and then evening studies for the MBA.

Focusing full time on the MBA alleviates that.

 

[jonas1jp]

Yes, it is hard. I work full time and go to school full time. Once you get a couple of classes under your belt, it doesn't seem as bad. I'm married and have one hell of a social life . It takes discipline and commitment, but I make sure that is the first thing that is taken care of. After that..............' It's Summer Summer Summer--time!'

 

[Dtrigg]

You're getting some good advice here. WHERE you go to school is very important. It's about being part of the club. It's always nice to be able to contact an alumni. A MBA from Bert & Ernie University won't get you much. Forget the costs, plus the opportunity costs from not working. A MBA from the University of Chicago or Harvard, et al, will get your costs back much faster. My MBA program wouldn't except anyone without a MINIMUM of two years of work experience.

 

[gheba_nsx]

Interesting thread, I hope you can be interested in my view on the topic:
I was planning of getting one two years ago... but I would have done it only for the money actually

Then I analyzed the situation and I came up with these factors, they can be useful if your primary goal is earning more :

- I wanted to keep a social life, so I would have done it full-time
- I should have planned a 20 months stop between MBA courses and final thesis
- the cost was 30k$ for the courses only

Now, in 20 months I would have lost quite a lot of incomes if I included salary, pension plan, all fringe benefits, phone bills paid, ...

Adding the 30k to this I ended up with a 220+ k$.

After an MBA, around here, people earn in average 20k$ more per year if they were already working in a decent/good position. This means that in average I would have needed 11 years just to get back the investment.

If I include intersts and the fact that during the MBA course, almost 2 years, my salary would have gone up of at least 5-6%, I ended up with a total 14 years just to get back a return of investment.

Other factors:

- I know, you could get more than the average 20k$ more per year difference but there is no guarantee to it, specially in 2-3 years when you will be back on the market.

- You could even earn less than this additional 20k since there could be a lot more MBAs around when you are finished and on the other side less medium management position available (Intel slahed 1000 of those this week)

- The value of the knowledge that you get during the courses could be a added value to you (it wasn't for me, as said my drive was increased salary), so the social network you can build there

 

[White98LS]

How did you get to $220k+ for 20 months of going to school instead of working? How much were you making?! I understand you lose out on benefits and all that jazz as well, but still $220k seems a stretch.

Last figure I heard on the MBA "premium" was $27k/yr... significantly more than that if you go to a top 10 or 20 school. The average starting salary of a University of Washington MBA is $76k and is more likely to go up from there at a faster rate than if you just had an undergrad degree. Many of the top schools have avg. starting salaries in 6 figures. There are plenty of people on this board who saw their salaries double coming straight out of an MBA program.

I also don't see the basis behind the argument that MBAs are getting more common. College grads are getting more common too, but would you then say that college is a waste of time? Not having the education that more and more of your peers are getting only puts you farther behind.

You do bring up an interesting point (hey, I'm in it for the money too!), I am simply of the opinion that your numbers may be a bit off. However I'd love to see a similar analysis of my sister's 5 years of med school + a public health degree and 5 years of residency, working 80hrs/wk+ for $40k/yr. She's a year early and she'll still be 31 when she starts making real money... with 5 years of grad school debt that's been fermenting for another 5 years. And talk about little social life....

 

[BioBanker]

Ski Banker has great advice about the CFA.

Im a sell side research analyst with an MBA.

If you've got the energy and the thick skin, its an awesome choice.

 

[gheba_nsx]

How did you get to $220k+ for 20 months of going to school instead of working? How much were you making?! I understand you lose out on benefits and all that jazz as well, but still $220k seems a stretch.

I live in Switzerland, probably salary (and so the cost of life ) are higher here than there. Anyway on top of the net salary, again, at least here, you have to add about 25% (pension fund, health and accident insurance, unemployment insurance - we get 18 months paid at 70% of our last salary if we are workless! ).

In 20 months, adding also the 30k$ needed to follow the MBA courses, I ended up with something more than 220k. Now it would be even more since in he last two years I moved up a bit so teh MBA is less and less attractive for me.

Last figure I heard on the MBA "premium" was $27k/yr... significantly more than that if you go to a top 10 or 20 school. The average starting salary of a University of Washington MBA is $76k and is more likely to go up from there at a faster rate than if you just had an undergrad degree. Many of the top schools have avg. starting salaries in 6 figures. There are plenty of people on this board who saw their salaries double coming straight out of an MBA program.

Ok, in this case, it could be worth it! I informed myself very well at that time, looking carefully at the market here and the average salary increase (if you already were a professional, with a MSc or equivalent) this was "only" 20k$/year.

Of course if I was coming from a lower position/lower education, it may have been higher. But it was not my case, you should analyze your situation realistically. Are you going to follow a Top10 MBA?

I also don't see the basis behind the argument that MBAs are getting more common. College grads are getting more common too, but would you then say that college is a waste of time? Not having the education that more and more of your peers are getting only puts you farther behind.

On this one I can assure you that it is the case. So is also CFA unfortunately: in the last 5 years more MBAs and more CFAs have been produced that in the previous 25 years... market is flooded with MBAs offer and if you do not follow a TOP one you may get almost nothing financially out of it.

The same is true for college grads: 20 years ago you would have been a top dog just for having a Degree in Economics. Now you start just as a Jr-something and you follow the white collar path for years before being considered. I think the same will be true for all post degree stuff... whatever brings money (and 20k/year or 27k/year more as you reported, is quite a lot foe MANY people) is taken into consideration by a lot of candudates. More offer, stable demand, price shrinking...

Try to build your case in a realistical way (of course it could go A LOT better, I hope so for you ) but as you know it may not, there are not enough CEO/CFO/CIO position for everybody ... at least since you are in for the money you won't be too disappointed in case it doesn't work out. Good luck!

 

[Ski_Banker]

How did you get to $220k+ for 20 months of going to school instead of working? How much were you making?! I understand you lose out on benefits and all that jazz as well, but still $220k seems a stretch.

Last figure I heard on the MBA "premium" was $27k/yr... significantly more than that if you go to a top 10 or 20 school. The average starting salary of a University of Washington MBA is $76k and is more likely to go up from there at a faster rate than if you just had an undergrad degree. Many of the top schools have avg. starting salaries in 6 figures. There are plenty of people on this board who saw their salaries double coming straight out of an MBA program.

I also don't see the basis behind the argument that MBAs are getting more common. College grads are getting more common too, but would you then say that college is a waste of time? Not having the education that more and more of your peers are getting only puts you farther behind.

You do bring up an interesting point (hey, I'm in it for the money too!), I am simply of the opinion that your numbers may be a bit off. However I'd love to see a similar analysis of my sister's 5 years of med school + a public health degree and 5 years of residency, working 80hrs/wk+ for $40k/yr. She's a year early and she'll still be 31 when she starts making real money... with 5 years of grad school debt that's been fermenting for another 5 years. And talk about little social life....

These quantitative analyses of "you'll make X $ more with an MBA" are a farce because they assume that all people are equal. Someone capable of getting into HBS will, most likely, be highly successful regardless of the degree. Fact is, the MBA will help you MOST while in school recruiting for your first postMBA job, by potentially getting you into employers or industries/jobs that you couldn't have gotten into before. Once "in" you will move up based 95% on your performance (which is a function of YOU, and not the degree). You should have a pretty good idea of "how" an MBA will help you, before matriculating, or it probably won't help much at all.

As an aside - you seem pretty argumentative with people that are older, more experienced, in the know etc. Ignore the advice if you want, but you are the original poster. Not sure why you seem so defensive about the very advice that you have solicited.

 

[White98LS]

These quantitative analyses of "you'll make X $ more with an MBA" are a farce because they assume that all people are equal. Someone capable of getting into HBS will, most likely, be highly successful regardless of the degree. Fact is, the MBA will help you MOST while in school recruiting for your first postMBA job, by potentially getting you into employers or industries/jobs that you couldn't have gotten into before. Once "in" you will move up based 95% on your performance (which is a function of YOU, and not the degree). You should have a pretty good idea of "how" an MBA will help you, before matriculating, or it probably won't help much at all.

As an aside - you seem pretty argumentative with people that are older, more experienced, in the know etc. Ignore the advice if you want, but you are the original poster. Not sure why you seem so defensive about the very advice that you have solicited.

I didn't mean to sound argumentative, sorry that it came across that way. I just wanted to know how he got his figures. I failed to realize he was from a different country with very different typical benefits, employment, etc.

I agree though, it is the person getting the job and working for success, not the degree.:smile:

 

[Ryanmcd2]

I say save the money and start your own business or something else. I have seen very few people that work for someone who are truly rich "as in working when they want, doing what they want, and the harder they work the more they make".

 

[EIFFEL]

I say save the money and start your own business or something else. I have seen very few people that work for someone who are truly rich "as in working when they want, doing what they want, and the harder they work the more they make".

AMEN:biggrin:

 

[jonas1jp]

Many good points by all, but I think we're leaving something out. A huge part of the decision to get my MBA was who I knew prior to enrolling. If you know the right people in the right places, maybe the school doesn't matter as much. For instance, if you know the people that can get you the job, and the rest is 95% performance, the school remains as nearly irrelevant. After all, I got my current job because a friend recommended me.