Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 vs Potenza RE750

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!!

I really need some help. I have to replace the rear tires on my '91 stock NSX. Since OEM tires are becoming increasing rare [none to be found in Canada - says Yokohama] I'd like to switch to a NEW brand of tire. I've narrowed my choices down to two. Yokohama recommended Yokohamas. [Can you believe it?! lol] They suggested the AVS ES100. Trouble is [and it IS 'trouble' - isn't it?] the only way I can get those tires is if I accept Z-rated rears and V-rated fronts. I don't THINK I want to do that. [do I?]

So basically - it's down to the Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 and the Bridgestone Potenza RE750. Why those two - I don't really know. I guess I just feel more confident buying brands that I'm familiar with.

Of those two [unless I'm completely blind to a much better choice] which would you choose? [I'd like my NSX to feel like my NSX - or at least VERY close to it] Also - my fear - having only used OEM tires since I first bought my '91 almost 10 years ago - is that by using the Michelin or Bridgetones [or any other tire - for that matter] what I love about my NSX will be lost forever. Is that fear unfounded?

Please help.

Craig!!

 

[ncdogdoc]

Nothing concrete but I hate Michelins and I have been very pleased with the RE 750's I have on my 15/16 wheels.

 

[apapada]

here ya go : PE2 vs RE750 vs ES100 vs RS-A. And results can be found here. Bottom line, PE2 is best overall: on the street PE2 is best. On the track, PE2 and Re750 are equivalent on dry and PE2 is best on wet.

 

[nsxtasy]

If you really love the OEM tires, then get the OEM tires. Does the Tire Rack ship to Canada? Or, have you tried getting the Bridgestone RE010 OEM tires? They're as similar to the Yokohama A022H OEM tires as any tire out there.

Aside from the OEM tires themselves, there are other choices that will be better suited for your needs. I am assuming, from your stated desire to come as close to possible to the OEM tires, that you are most concerned about crisp handling and dry traction. If that is the case, then you should look at the best, top-of-the-line street tires out there, that are available. Unfortunately, many of these are not available in the stock sizes for your '91. If you're looking for those sizes, I would recommend getting the Bridgestone Potenza S-03 , which costs USD570 for a set of four. The S-03 will stick better, and give you better handling, than any of the other tires mentioned above.

There are other reasons for getting some of the other tires mentioned - notably lower price and better traction on wet roads - but if you're looking for handling and dry traction that are similar to the OEM tires, that's what I would do.

 

[CanadaCraig]

Hi ncdogdoc!!

Thanks. Compared to the stock Yokohama's [which I assume you had] what differences did you notice when you put on the RE750's? Does your NSX handle as well? Is it quieter? Does it still FEEL like an NSX?! [that sort of thing] Are there any negatives?

Hi apapada!!

Thanks. I appreciate the link. In your opinion - would test results gathered by comparing tires mounted on a BMW 330ci prove to be the same as if the car used was an NSX? [if that makes sense]

Hi nsxtasy!!

Thanks. I appreciate the response. Yes - the TireRack does ship to Canada. In fact - I've done that once before. Was very pleased. I MIGHT end up doing that again. [when all is said and done] But I just want to make sure it's the RIGHT thing to do. And I say that because in the not too distant future - new Yokohama A022H OEM tires will no longer be available. And my thinking is - if the front Yoko's I have on need to be replaced before the soon to be new rear tires need replacing [which is quite possible] then I'll be right back to where I am NOW. It's also not that much more money to buy 4 brand new RE750's or Exalto PE2's near where I live as it is to buy 2 brand new A022H's and have them shipped to Canada. Plus - if there is a problem - I can't see myself mailing two tires BACK to Reno, Nevada. That all said - I'm chewing over your advice. [which was great advice - by the way]

Craig!!

 

[apapada]

Thanks. I appreciate the link. In your opinion - would test results gathered by comparing tires mounted on a BMW 330ci prove to be the same as if the car used was an NSX? [if that makes sense]

The short answer is it depends. The same, no. Similar, probably.
If results were exactly the same, tire manufacturers would use any given vehicle when developing OE programs for a new vehicles. This is not the case, they try to use prototypes (test mules) whenever possible, or in the worst case they use the previous model of that car. They do so, for the results to match as closely possible the results of the vehicle in its final version (production).
As you pointed out very well, a 330ci and a NSX are pretty different vehicles with different layouts, configuration, balance and dynamics. The size and dimension of the tires they tested is most likely different than the one you will end up with on your NSX. That matters too. But the key when reviewing such test results is relative comparison: If tire A is 10% better than tire B on vehicle 1, you may expect +/- a similar improvement on vehicle 2. In extreme cases it might be 5% better or 20% better. In some rare case, we can even have an inversion (happens sometimes especially due to track characteristics used for testing). But for the most cases, you should have a similar improvement. I have reviewed Tirerack's testing methods. They're doing a good job.

 

[nsxtasy]

Thanks. Compared to the stock Yokohama's [which I assume you had] what differences did you notice when you put on the RE750's? Does your NSX handle as well? Is it quieter? Does it still FEEL like an NSX?! [that sort of thing] Are there any negatives?
.
.
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It's also not that much more money to buy 4 brand new RE750's or Exalto PE2's near where I live as it is to buy 2 brand new A022H's and have them shipped to Canada.

Neither of these tires will grip or handle as well as the OEM tires. Yes, they are less expensive. If you are willing to get a tire with less grip and less cost - that is the trade-off, in a nutshell - then there are other tires that you might consider, in addition to these two, including the Fuzion ZRi, the Avon Tech M500, the Yokohama AVS ES100, and the Kumho MX. In terms of dry grip and handling, none of these six tires performs as well as the S-03 or the OEM tires. But if cost is a something you want to consider along with performance, then you might take a look at any or all of these. There are side-by-side comparison tests of all of these tires (other than the OEM tires) on the Tire Rack website, and they are very useful. (Not all against each other at the same time, though; the Tire Rack does not usually test a top-of-the-line tire like the S-03 or MX against a budget performance tire like the RE750, ES100, etc.).

in the not too distant future - new Yokohama A022H OEM tires will no longer be available.

I don't believe that. And I have heard nothing from anyone "on the inside" (e.g. the Yokohama rep who spoke at NSXPO 2004) to indicate that. The only time I ever hear comments like that is from tire dealers who don't want to be bothered ordering tires that they don't have in stock.

the key when reviewing such test results is relative comparison: If tire A is 10% better than tire B on vehicle 1, you may expect +/- a similar improvement on vehicle 2. In extreme cases it might be 5% better or 20% better. In some rare case, we can even have an inversion (happens sometimes especially due to track characteristics used for testing). But for the most cases, you should have a similar improvement.

I agree. And one additional point - the Tire Rack tests usually provide ratings in over twenty specific attributes, everything from wet pavement braking distances, to dry pavement lap times, etc. And it is rare that one tire will be better than another in every single characteristic. You can use these ratings and assume that the specific strengths and weaknesses of one tire vs another should translate from one vehicle to another. So, for example, if a test using a BMW shows that tire A grips better than tire B in wet conditions but tire B grips better than tire A in dry conditions, then you can expect that the same will probably be true for those two tires when used on another car.

 

[todddejag]

I also have a stock '91 with stock wheels & recently had to replace the Perrellis that were on the car when I bought it 2 yrs. ago. The Perrellis developed an inner side wall "buldge", and were recently discontinued. SP7000- (No replacement from Perrelli...said I must have done this myself!)
I looked at the options which are few for a "matched" set, and bought Potenza...RE 950s, I believe. "W" rated...higher than "z"s. They are GREAT! Ride well- less sound- great handling. Mich. are hard- very poor on wet road traction/ conditions.

Good luck...go with the Potenza!!! :smile:

Deborah from Knoxville

 

[nsxtasy]

"W" rated...higher than "z"s.

Not exactly. W represents more precision in the speed rating, but not necessarily a higher speed capability. Here's what it says on the Tire Rack website:

While a Z-speed rating still often appears in the tire size designation of these tires, such as 225/50ZR16 91W, the Z in the size signifies a maximum speed capability in excess of 149 mph, 240 km/h; the W in the service description indicates the tire's 168 mph, 270 km/h maximum speed.

225/50ZR16 in excess of 149 mph, 240 km/h
205/45ZR17 88W 168 mph, 270 km/h
285/35ZR19 99Y 186 mph, 300 km/h

Most recently, when the Y-speed rating indicated in a service description is enclosed in parentheses, such as 285/35ZR19 (99Y), the top speed of the tire has been tested in excess of 186 mph, 300 km/h indicated by the service description as shown below:

285/35ZR19 99Y 186 mph, 300 km/h
285/35ZR19 (99Y) in excess of 186 mph, 300 km/h

As vehicles have increased their top speeds into Autobahn-only ranges, the tire speed ratings have evolved to better identify the tires capability, allowing drivers to match the speed of their tires with the top speed of their vehicle.

 

[ncdogdoc]

CanadaCraig,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

The RE-750's are definitely less "crisp" than the OEM tires. Noise level about the same, ride comfort about the same. A much harder compound. I have not driven a better tire on the NSX than the OEM tires (except R compounds ). I have chosen to use Bridgestone SO-3's as my primary tire due to longer life than the OEM at the same or less money.

I bought an extra set of 15/16 wheels with 750's mounted. I just could not throw them away so I used them for cool weather tires. I liked them so much I bought another set to go on my chrome 15/16's. I still have SO3's on my 16/17's, and I have an extra set of OEM's to go back to since I am no longer tracking on street tires.

I was probably a little too hard on the Michelins. I have never had a set that I really liked, starting with the original Michelin Sports I put on my Mustang GT in place of Goodyear Gatorbacks. Better in the dry, much worse in the wet. Wore much more quickly than the Gators. I have had other Michelins on my other Ford, my Lexus, and my parents' cars in the past, with similar experiences. My last set was Michelin MXX3 on the NSX - lots of fun in town, but understeered like a pig when really pushed, much like the runflats I had on my Mini Cooper S.

Just for comparison, I had Yoko ES100's on my Lexus. Great looking tires, but they became so noisy that my mechanic suggested I needed new wheel bearings I now have Bridgestone Fuzions and really like them, just not as aggressive looking on 18x10 rims

In case it has not shown, I am a big fan of Bridgestones!