New Uprated Brakes?

[Welsh Dragon]

Hi All

Had a graet day at Brands Hatch in the UK yesterday a great day the car was great except for the brakes.
I have removed the stone guards that is a big increase in the cooling of the disc but I am still having to brake to early and when I am battling with GT 3 and 360 Maronello race car not forgetting the Radical & Caterham R400 with there light weights.

There is no problem with all the general cars on the track but I want to be able to stay with the big boys

Someone has recomend to me a system in the states called
THE Brakeman

http://www.thebrakeman.com/acura

Does anybody use this setup?

AP Racing are going to do a bespoke set but they are taking forever

Dale
NSX 1

 

[Ponyboy]

FWIW, I don't know of anyone running the Brakeman system nor do I understand any improvements of running a "wave" rotor. I'm unsure as to whether or not you're just wanting more cooling and are experiencing some kind or if you're wanting more stopping power.

Tell us a little more about your setup. You mention taking the dust shields off but don't write anything about hi-temp fluid, pads, additional ducting, or tires.

 

[nsxtasy]

And why are you braking too early?

Watch out for baking the ball joints with the dust shields removed...

 

[winreboot]

It just happens that I just changed my pads last weekend.

I got the Carbotech Panther Plus pads. They go for around $220 for a set, and it is worth every penny.

Diffrence in notisable right a way. When you stop hard you slide off the seat I didn't know that good pads make such a big diffrence.

The only thing I notice they are little loud when braking at high speeds. You can actually hear the rotors getting grinded (not squiki noice) and the wheels dust more. Also after hard braking the rotors turn rainbow, I guess from the heat.

But stoping is inproved with this pads. Highly recommended. Any one else using those?

 

[nsxtasy]

I am using them at the moment.

Stopping distances aren't shortened, since they are determined by the tires, not the pads. (Unless you were using crappy brake pads that faded when hot; I wasn't.)

They squeak and they dust...

 

[ctrlaltdelboy]

hey Dale

are you planning to use smaller wheels on the track?

if you stick to your existing 18"/19" setup you can afford to step up to a big brake kit which of course will help lots both in cooling to reduce fade and improve stopping power - if you want to use smaller (lighter) wheels for the track then you'll need to stick to the oem size (282mm) rotors.

to make the most of the oem setup you need to:

a) remove the shields (you've done that)
b) duct some cool air onto the rotors (you can buy these from loads of places - Kevin @ NSXCB has made some)
c) use high temp fluid (I use Castrol SRF)
d) use an endurance/high temp brake pad (Pagid yellow or blue are good)

there are some good discussions on braking on Honda-R, use the search function there too for more help.

see you later

Darren

 

[Welsh Dragon]

Hi All & not forgetting Darren

As Darren says I am running 18-19" setup I am still having a problem with the spacing to put a bigger brake kit in.
I have had 6 Pot APs before on my EVO that where wonderful.

I use Castrol SRF fluid fresh every trackday and Ferodo pads.
My aim is to brake on the corner not 150 yards away.

The cooling could be improved with some deflectors but this does need some attention due to having a Mugen front spoiler.

NSXTASY I am braking earlier because of no confidence in the brakes I have at presant. I do not hang around on track but with my racecars I can do what I want to I want the same thing with the NSX 1
My Tyres are Toyo that I have found to be better than the Continental's, Fulder and Bridgestone.

Thanks all for your comments

Dale
NSX 1

 

[nsxtasy]

I am braking earlier because of no confidence in the brakes I have at presant.

Then I think the problem has nothing to do with your brakes. The problem is in your level of confidence. Since you are not using proper threshold braking technique - using the brakes to their maximum capability by doing so on the threshold of locking up (but not actually locking them) - then you clearly have no idea what they are capable of.

You should try moving your braking points a few feet later on each lap, lap after lap. This will give you a better feel for what your brakes are capable of. Once you reach proper threshold braking, then you will see what they are capable of (and you will find out whether your setup encounters any heat-related problems). Until you do so, mods won't make any difference whatsoever.

Once you start proper threshold braking, you can consider mods to shorten your braking distances even further. I would suggest trying out mods in the following order:

1. R compound tires (I assume the tires you are using are not the Toyo RA-1, their track tire) on a smaller, lighter set of wheels

2. Cooling ducts (not just deflectors, but ducts)

3. Removal of the Mugen spoiler

4. Depending on which Ferodo pads you are using, there might be a more aggressive pad you can try.

 

[Welsh Dragon]

Hi NSXTASY

It is the one disapoinment with the NSX are the brakes.
I have other race cars that I do not have any problems with that I heel & toe as I do with the NSX.

The tyres are the TOYO Proxys T1.S that are a good all round tyre.
The wheels are as below

I agree with the ducting I would prefer to keep the Mugan spoiler and work around it.

Thanks for your thoughts

Dale
NSX 1

 

[MvM]

Welsh,
I am not sure I entirely understand you're problem.
Are you having your braking-problems right from the start or just after a few laps.

 

[Ponyboy]

Yeah, I'm not quite understanding what exactly the problem is either. Is it a heat problem? Warping? Stopping distance? Etc?

 

[nsxtasy]

Apparently, there are no problems with the braking. As I understand it, Welsh Dragon just is not confident using the brakes as strongly as they are capable of being used.

The T1-S is a good street tire, but it is only a street tire. It sounds like the tires are limiting the braking performance. Try track tires, such as

Hoosier R3S03
Kumho V700 Victoracer
Kumho V700 Ecsta
Toyo RA-1
Yokohama A032R

 

[ky650]

There is a fairly long thread on the wave rotor brakes on s2ki.com (it's been a while). I thought they were strictly for reducing unsprung weight (hence the funny wave design) and street use only.