I am running out of patience.
I can't wait any longer for 2nd generation NSX. ANY NEWs?
I can't wait any longer for 2nd generation NSX. ANY NEWs?
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NEXT NSX
- Thread starter NextNSX
- Start date
No.
They talk about not wanting to mess up the "balance" of the car by adding a bigger, heavier engine. I don't see why they don't research a way to bump up the torque peak and the redline on the existing engine by another thousand rpm or so... if they can invent variable valve timing, they can come up with a way to get the engine to safely rev higher.
Assuming that the power peak remained 1600 rpm above the torque peak, and the redline and torque peak were increased by 1000 rpm, with 224 ft.lbs @ 6500, the engine would be putting out 330 HP at 8100. And with a higher redline, they can shorten the gear ratios without compromising top speed compared with the current model.
To tell the truth, I'm kind of scared of seeing a "next" NSX. Some of the supposed concept art was HORRID. I don't care what they do to the car, as long as it still looks the same...although I still like the pre 02s best.
Assuming that the power peak remained 1600 rpm above the torque peak, and the redline and torque peak were increased by 1000 rpm, with 224 ft.lbs @ 6500, the engine would be putting out 330 HP at 8100. And with a higher redline, they can shorten the gear ratios without compromising top speed compared with the current model.
To tell the truth, I'm kind of scared of seeing a "next" NSX. Some of the supposed concept art was HORRID. I don't care what they do to the car, as long as it still looks the same...although I still like the pre 02s best.
regards naaman's comments... the moment they say "we can't do this because blah blah blah" is the very moment they SHOULD try to do it...
we didn't listen to "man could never walk on the moon" did we?
we didn't listen to "man could never walk on the moon" did we?
I am sure a change will come in the next few years. 2015 by the latest.
None of the next generation cars will be available to the US market however.
I'm sure the dealers don't relish having to floorplan these vehicles and that is part of the problem. I love the car but if I were a Acura dealer I wouldn't want to tie up the cash on a car that has such a small market and is positioned in it so poorly.
We can love the car but the criticism of the price,old design, bang for the buck etc. is what kills the car for a business that wants to sell cars to make money.
No way a dealer should have to discount a car as they are with the NSX to move them.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this car but it is a stinker when it comes to sales.
[This message has been edited by pbassjo (edited 31 January 2003).]
None of the next generation cars will be available to the US market however.
I'm sure the dealers don't relish having to floorplan these vehicles and that is part of the problem. I love the car but if I were a Acura dealer I wouldn't want to tie up the cash on a car that has such a small market and is positioned in it so poorly.
We can love the car but the criticism of the price,old design, bang for the buck etc. is what kills the car for a business that wants to sell cars to make money.
No way a dealer should have to discount a car as they are with the NSX to move them.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this car but it is a stinker when it comes to sales.
[This message has been edited by pbassjo (edited 31 January 2003).]
I agree with pbassjo.
However, I think they made a big mistake on pricing. For a long time, they have had an MSRP of $89K, a dealer cost of $75-78K, and at times dealer incentives of $7500. They could have sold a lot more with an MSRP of $78K and dealer cost of $70K or so, without the need for incentives. We continue to hear the NSX repeatedly referred to as a $90K car. If people realized they could buy one new for $75K it would get a lot more respect.
However, I think they made a big mistake on pricing. For a long time, they have had an MSRP of $89K, a dealer cost of $75-78K, and at times dealer incentives of $7500. They could have sold a lot more with an MSRP of $78K and dealer cost of $70K or so, without the need for incentives. We continue to hear the NSX repeatedly referred to as a $90K car. If people realized they could buy one new for $75K it would get a lot more respect.
The REAL question is who will be the race driver who will help develop it? With Senna and Zanardi off the table, do they turn to; Fisichella, Villeneuve, Cunningham?
Honda didn't just "build" one of the best cars ever made - they developed it. Just jamming a 500hp motor between 4 tires and adding a couple seats isn't the scenario here. If they did it right for a second time, with the goal of running and winning in GTS classes of racing, (F575, C5R, GT3C, etc) I think we'd all be better off - but that's just my opinion.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
Honda didn't just "build" one of the best cars ever made - they developed it. Just jamming a 500hp motor between 4 tires and adding a couple seats isn't the scenario here. If they did it right for a second time, with the goal of running and winning in GTS classes of racing, (F575, C5R, GT3C, etc) I think we'd all be better off - but that's just my opinion.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
Ed, You have mail!
nsxbuilder you made a great point.
Having Fisichella or Villeneuve developing it would be great. Cunningham's a great driver and has done the NSX proud, but a car that was developed to be an F1 car for the street would need the ultimate drivers of the world developing it. And an F1 champ like Villeneuve would be great, maybe Honda could buy some of Schumachers time too.
Having Fisichella or Villeneuve developing it would be great. Cunningham's a great driver and has done the NSX proud, but a car that was developed to be an F1 car for the street would need the ultimate drivers of the world developing it. And an F1 champ like Villeneuve would be great, maybe Honda could buy some of Schumachers time too.
Agree, it must be part of its development, if not I don't want to see it done. The unfortunate part of that is, Other than Honda engine programs in the IRL and F1, I don't see them as using the NSX platform in anytype of racing series and w/recent results in F1 they are behind. I wonder how things would have been different if Senna lived, would it have made any impact on the NSX future?
Actually what I think they should do is get some of the ideas and suggestion that Artyon Senna had and try to make a new nsx not just a nsx that has more power. One that is lighter, more balanced, and a little more increase in power, with the suggestion that he had honda will probably make a even better nsx. I don't think honda through away the information that they used to make this car. Also I think if they change the driver who help develop it, it will cause the car to change because everyone has thier own type of driving.
You see they should start the project over again starting from scratch except for the body line which I think they should still keep.One that stays true to the name NSX New Sportcar eXperimental.(Hey they made a robot so I guess they can make a better car)
You see they should start the project over again starting from scratch except for the body line which I think they should still keep.One that stays true to the name NSX New Sportcar eXperimental.(Hey they made a robot so I guess they can make a better car)
I heard the new generation NSX is going to be made of carbon fiber with a 6.0 liter V12 engine that produces 1200 HP at 200HP per liter while getting 50 miles per gallon and weights rougly 2,200 pounds and costs about the same as the first generation NSX.
Originally posted by Zuerst:
I heard the new generation NSX is going to be made of carbon fiber with a 6.0 liter V12 engine that produces 1200 HP at 200HP per liter while getting 50 miles per gallon and weights rougly 2,200 pounds and costs about the same as the first generation NSX.
now we have it in writing (and here on the Internet too where EVERY rumour is true)... so i believe you!
actually, i 'heard' they were using a modified engine from the Zonda... so i think 6.0L is too small.
Originally posted by Zuerst:
I heard the new generation NSX is going to be made of carbon fiber with a 6.0 liter V12 engine that produces 1200 HP at 200HP per liter while getting 50 miles per gallon and weights rougly 2,200 pounds and costs about the same as the first generation NSX.
Actually I heard exactly the same thing except for the price which was supposed to be half of what it is today.
[This message has been edited by NSX-GUY (edited 04 February 2003).]
Porsche sales seem to be very strong at the moment, in part I'm sure by the fact theat the entry level Carrera is priced equivalent to the NSX, has alot more horsepower, and they are readily available. If Acura wants to stay in the game, they need to offer two different models. Maybe an entry level, 75k car producing over 300hp (I mean come on, even the Lexus SC430 has it), and an R-type marketed turbo version from the factory. Some say impossible to sell, but they sell quite a few Porsche Turbos at $136k!
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- 1992 Acura NSX Black
- 2002 Audi TT 225 Coupe Black
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- 2001 Nissan Xterra Blue
- 1968 Lincoln Sedan Black (Yes the Matrix Car!)
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Porsche sales in the U.S. in 2002 were down 7 percent from 2001. Porsche sales so far in 2003 are down 9 percent from 2002.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 04 February 2003).]
Originally posted by pbassjo:
I am sure a change will come in the next few years. 2015 by the latest.
None of the next generation cars will be available to the US market however.
I'm sure the dealers don't relish having to floorplan these vehicles and that is part of the problem. I love the car but if I were a Acura dealer I wouldn't want to tie up the cash on a car that has such a small market and is positioned in it so poorly.
We can love the car but the criticism of the price,old design, bang for the buck etc. is what kills the car for a business that wants to sell cars to make money.
No way a dealer should have to discount a car as they are with the NSX to move them.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this car but it is a stinker when it comes to sales.
[This message has been edited by pbassjo (edited 31 January 2003).]
I hate to admit it but pbassjo is right. Acura dealers are much more interested in selling TLs and MDXs than the occasional NSX. From an economic standpoint you can't really blame them. The word from my Acura dealer friend is that the dealer representatives on the Acura product development team have been almost unanimous against producing a V8 NSX. For their part Acura is very reluctant because the cost to develop a V8 and design the new NSX is astronomical. (I won't mention the number because it was so high that I still have trouble believing it). Acura produced a great car in 1990 and it generated excitment and brought a great deal of attention to what was seen as a very practical car company. I guess Acura does not feel the need to position itself that way now.
The base 911 is priced similarly to the NSX and has more hp, but it doesn't perform any better and it looks pretty bland. No one is going to mistake the plain vanilla C2 for the C4s or the Turbo. The NSX looks massively exotic next to the base 911.
I don't think the problem is pricing at all. I agree with pbasso and sansnsx in that the problem is market positioning. Honda has chosen to position Acura as a boring, sensible, Volvo competitor that has this bizarre $90k sports car sitting out of place in it's showrooms. The hot version Integra/RSX editions are oddballs as well.
Until Honda figures out what they want to do, the NSX will languish.
I'd be willing to bet that if Toyota brought out an $80k Lexus Supra that were the rough equivalent of the Carrera 2 and the NSX in performance and looked good, it would destroy the NSX in sales.
[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 05 February 2003).]
I don't think the problem is pricing at all. I agree with pbasso and sansnsx in that the problem is market positioning. Honda has chosen to position Acura as a boring, sensible, Volvo competitor that has this bizarre $90k sports car sitting out of place in it's showrooms. The hot version Integra/RSX editions are oddballs as well.
Until Honda figures out what they want to do, the NSX will languish.
I'd be willing to bet that if Toyota brought out an $80k Lexus Supra that were the rough equivalent of the Carrera 2 and the NSX in performance and looked good, it would destroy the NSX in sales.
[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 05 February 2003).]
The only way NSX sales could get worse is
if Acura had to start buying back previously
sold cars. 200 to 300 cars a year is for all
intensive purposes-not worth the effort.
Keep in mind that in 1991 Lexus and Acura
were just attempting to build a good reputation and develop strong market penetration. The Nsx was good for advertising
and an excellent way to demonstrate their
technical excellence.Well, they have done
both and the Nsx has probably served it's
purpose.
In 1991 it was a big step to purchase either
a Lexus or Acura-fortunately I took a chance
when I bought my first of my four Lexus'.To
this day they are hands down the four best
cars I have ever owned.
For the record-the worst is my current volvo
S80--very dependable but just a piece of
Ford junk!
if Acura had to start buying back previously
sold cars. 200 to 300 cars a year is for all
intensive purposes-not worth the effort.
Keep in mind that in 1991 Lexus and Acura
were just attempting to build a good reputation and develop strong market penetration. The Nsx was good for advertising
and an excellent way to demonstrate their
technical excellence.Well, they have done
both and the Nsx has probably served it's
purpose.
In 1991 it was a big step to purchase either
a Lexus or Acura-fortunately I took a chance
when I bought my first of my four Lexus'.To
this day they are hands down the four best
cars I have ever owned.
For the record-the worst is my current volvo
S80--very dependable but just a piece of
Ford junk!
If they would just sell me a Type-R I wouldn't be looking fot the Next NSX.
I believe the figure is somewhat north of $800 mil U.S., which include R&D and tooling costs.
As for my speculation of when the 2nd gen NSX may be ready to hit production, it may boil down to Honda's IRL success within the next few years. Perhaps if Honda begins a series of back-to-back IRL championship and constructor title wins (a good probability since the Homestead test 2 weeks ago proved Honda-powered cars are 4 mph faster than TOyota and 7 mph more than Chevy), maybe by 2006 they will be boasting about the same de-tuned 3.5 liter V-8 that won Inday races NOW powers the new NSX. Sales will go through the roof and Honda's recognition in motorsports will be restored and respect gained once again.
Again, it's just a speculation. It may be the plan you know....Only time will tell.
In 1991, the concept of the NSX pushed the envelope and raised the bar for automotive excellence.
Honda is quite satisfied with their current image--one of providing affordable and reliable transportation for the masses.
Sports car enthusiasts are left in the back-burner. If you can purchase a new NSX, fine. If not, Honda can always find buyers for their other models so they can still "keep up with the Jones'." No big loss.
After all, rival corporations like Nissan and Toyota are quite content with staying away from the exotic car market. They're doing well for themselves so why should Honda voluntarily fork over the $$$ to manufacture such expensive cars? For image? Please.
Am I wrong?
Honda is quite satisfied with their current image--one of providing affordable and reliable transportation for the masses.
Sports car enthusiasts are left in the back-burner. If you can purchase a new NSX, fine. If not, Honda can always find buyers for their other models so they can still "keep up with the Jones'." No big loss.
After all, rival corporations like Nissan and Toyota are quite content with staying away from the exotic car market. They're doing well for themselves so why should Honda voluntarily fork over the $$$ to manufacture such expensive cars? For image? Please.
Am I wrong?
The only problem is that Honda already made the leap and it is too late to go back. They chose to attempt to take on Porsche and Ferrari back in 91 and they have chosen to not just bite the bullet and pull the car. They don't make any money on the NSX and they don't update it or try to increase it's presence: it just languishes.
Now they are in a situation where the other Japanese marques are *returning* to the sports car fold with high performing, low cost, entries. Honda simply must do something in the face of the WRX, EVO, RX-8, 350Z and, potentially, a new Supra.
