Nitrous where the spare tire goes

[Darkcyd]

Can anyone see in the first 5 seconds viewing the pic tiger posted above what is 'so' wrong with that setup? I am amazed it works!

You mean besides the fact that you'd have to run hoodless?

 

[NSX/MR2]

Can it be assume that 50 shot is pretty safe, provided that it was install by a professional?

How reliable is the engine with a 50 shot given that the engine is ok or healthy to start out with?

Where do most people installed their bottles, (front or back?)

 

[nsxtasy]

i had this car for a while.. but I am a new member of the NSX prime. I always want to look for more friend have this car... i found this website yesterday..and i was so happy..^___^

You should join the NSX Club of America. The Sacramento Chapter, in particular, is very active. And you should come to NSXPO 2003 next month - it's not too late to sign up (only until the end of this week though)!

 

[SNDSOUL]

Can anyone see in the first 5 seconds viewing the pic tiger posted above what is 'so' wrong with that setup? I am amazed it works!

I believe nitrous bottles must lay horizontally with the neck a little higher to work properly. There is no way that set up is being used to its full potential,IMO.

 

[hi5417]

You should join the NSX Club of America. The Sacramento Chapter, in particular, is very active. And you should come to NSXPO 2003 next month - it's not too late to sign up (only until the end of this week though)!

I am very thankful for you suggestion to sign up for the NSXPO. I heard about it few month ago, but I just have chance to check it out today. that is a whole week event, but I have school from monday to friday and i can only go on saturday. It's really a HUGE PITTY for me. I really wanna join it. do you know if i can pay the entrance fee in front of the gate of sears point raceway. how much i problely need to pay for? some of my friend also want to go on saturday only, but two of them have NSXs, the other one drive a M coupe. is he able to enter? we just want to check it out there not for runing in the track.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

If a 10lb bottle with a blanket fits, does anyone know if a 12lb bottle will fit?

 

[BadCarma]

If a 10lb bottle with a blanket fits, does anyone know if a 12lb bottle will fit?

yes it will

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Thanks for the reply. I see bottles in sizesof 1 lb/1.4 lb/2.5 lb/5 lb/10 lb/12 lb/15 lb and was wondering if they are pretty much all the same standard sizes. A composite carbon-fiber bottle would be choice.

The more I learn, the more questions I have. Other questions that come to mind:

1) For a poser's 50-70 shot, wet or dry?
2) Any performance benfits from mounting the bottle closer to the engine in the trunk?
3) Any additional length of lines or wire needed for a front installation or does enough come with a standard kit?
4) What is the best way to route the lines back to the engine?
5) Where does one locate the solenoids, in the front with the bottle or in the engine compartment?
6) Does anyone still push a horn button to release the nitrous, or is a throttle activated switch the way to go? Zex has an electronic progamable unit, Venom has some brain out too, PC progamable with all kinds of monitoring, or keep it simple stupid?
7) Where is the best place to install the nitrous injector? Can I just tap the airbox? How about on a supercharged setup? What is heck is direct port with fuel rail or shower head?
8) What is a blowdown fitting/tube, and where to install it?
9) Where is the best place to mount the purge valve in this type of setup? Any trick ideas???
10) Wire up everything to one activation switch, or use separate switches to remote open the bottle, turn on the heater, another to arm the system, etc.?
11) What gauges would you install in the cockpit to monitor what? Install tips on what to buy?

Thanks in advance for any answers!

*I see that Zex recomends tapping into the intercooler on a WRX STi install, I wonder if there is any added benefit by the charge cooling down the condenser. I am seeing more and more CO2 installs, but haven't seen any numbers yet, anywhere. Aftercooler with CO2, NOS, and an electric fan in the lexan hatch duct, that's the ticket!

 

[BadCarma]

Thanks for the reply. I see bottles in sizesof 1 lb/1.4 lb/2.5 lb/5 lb/10 lb/12 lb/15 lb and was wondering if they are pretty much all the same standard sizes. A composite carbon-fiber bottle would be choice.

The more I learn, the more questions I have. Other questions that come to mind:

Major this is IMHO

1) For a poser's 50-70 shot, wet or dry?

Dry


2) Any performance benfits from mounting the bottle closer to the engine in the trunk?
yes, the shorter the feed line the better the 'hit' and less wasted juice when purging the system

3) Any additional length of lines or wire needed for a front installation or does enough come with a standard kit?

the feedline provided with most brand kits is long enough

4) What is the best way to route the lines back to the engine?
for a front mount under the car
5) Where does one locate the solenoids, in the front with the bottle or in the engine compartment?
engine compartment

6) Does anyone still push a horn button to release the nitrous, or is a throttle activated switch the way to go? Zex has an electronic progamable unit, Venom has some brain out too, PC progamable with all kinds of monitoring, or keep it simple stupid?
I have used them all but I like a setup that uses both a wot switch and the horn buttons. the car must be at wot and have the horn button depressed to fire the system


7) Where is the best place to install the nitrous injector? Can I just tap the airbox? How about on a supercharged setup? What is heck is direct port with fuel rail or shower head?

on a simple single fogger system the intake tube after the airbox or cone filter and before the throttle body ,for an S/C I like direct port.thats were you run a line to each port on the manifold that results in an even distrubution of the spray, NOS has a new setup that does not require drilling of the manifold.this setup is more advanced


8) What is a blowdown fitting/tube, and where to install it?

a blow down tube is mounted to the bottles safety valve,if the bottles valve releases from to high a bottle pressure it will vent the n2o outside the car
9) Where is the best place to mount the purge valve in this type of setup? Any trick ideas???
always mount the purge directly before your main selonoids,the purpose is to purge the system of gas state n2o and bring liquid n20 right to the main selonoid.this will help with lag time on the 'hit' and provide a harder hit.it is also good to purge the feedline with bottle closed and release pressure on the nos selonoid after use(turn off bottle heater before you close it).as far as routing the purged gas out of the system don't make the line to long and waste n20
10) Wire up everything to one activation switch, or use separate switches to remote open the bottle, turn on the heater, another to arm the system, etc.?

I use on most systems four control switches NOT to be confused with the safety switches like wot or fpss. one to purge the system before I spray,one to open/close the bottle and turn on/off heater(remote open and close and bottle heater on/off share the same switch),one to turn horn into nos button and one to master arm the system
11) What gauges would you install in the cockpit to monitor what? Install tips on what to buy?
its a personal choice but I like a fuel pressure guage and EGT. I like an electric full sweep fuel pressure qauge. what! no nos pressure gauge? I dont need one but you might want a nos pressure gauge in the cab.I use one at the bottle.because I keep my bottle heated I have a good idea where the psi is from knowing the temp and how many runs I have made

Thanks in advance for any answers!
your welcome

*I see that Zex recomends tapping into the intercooler on a WRX STi install, I wonder if there is any added benefit by the charge cooling down the condenser. I am seeing more and more CO2 installs, but haven't seen any numbers yet, anywhere. Aftercooler with CO2, NOS, and an electric fan in the lexan hatch duct, that's the ticket!

many guys do use a small shot of nos as an intercooler

BTW very good questions, remember that the answers are 'highly' opinionated and reflect my personal nitrous experience and theory. many others may do it differently.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Thanks again. Big help!

 

[MAJOR STONER]

I have been looking at different systems...


Performer EFI Wet System-$600
http://www.edelbrock.com

Power Wing Kit for EFI-$612
http://www.bgfuel.com

Stage One EFI System-$775
http://www.nitrousexpress.com

Sport Compact Nitrous System-$700
http://www.holley.com

VCN-1000 Computer Controlled Nitrous System-$700
VCN-2000 Computer Controlled Nitrous System-$1400
http://www.venom-performance.com

Wet Nitrous System-$612
http://www.zex.com

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Bottles come in several sizes, but mainly we see the ten and fifteen ound bottles in car applications. Several companies, Nitrous Express, Edelbrock, and NOS offer composite bottles, saving as much as three pounds. Chrome is also available, and NOS has a new anodized blue bottle. Bottle construction is a simple cylindrical pressure vessel. The domed top helps contain the highly pressurized gas. Inside the bottle is a tube that extends to the bottom, then off at an angle towards the outside. Nitrous needs to be picked up by this tube as a liquid, not a gas. This is why the bottles are mounted at an angle with the pickup at the lowest point.

Bottle colors...

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Solenoids are electrically controlled valves. When power is applied, nitrous or fuel can pass through the solenoid. The original method was to use a micro-switch near the throttle body, activated only when wide open throttle is achieved. Zex, NOS, Nitrous Express, and Venom offer electronic modules that connect electronically to the throttle position sensor and activate at a preset level.

Solenoids...

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Nitrous is very cold, and boils (converting to a gas) at -129 degrees F (-89.5 C). It cools the air charge going into the engine, and releases oxygen at 565 degrees F (300 C) during combustion, acting like a supercharger.

Single and dual nozzles, and jets...

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Zex and Venom go one step further, instead of just acting as an on/off switch, they also control flow level. The Zex Nitrous Management Unit matches the flow of additional fuel to the flow rate of the nitrous. This helps get a consistent mixture regardless of temperature.

NOS relay, main switch and micro-switch...

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Venom goes deeper with the VCN-2000, using a closed loop control system that monitors the air/fuel ratio and ajusts the nitrous/fuel ratio accordingly. It can be configured with a PC or Palm-based handheld to adjust the throttle activation angle, activation RPM, time based activation, and maximun nitrous pressure.

Smart systems...

 

[Zishan]

Well, I have to say, this has been by far, the most informative thread I've read in regards to nitrous! The concept of it is simple, it adds FI to your engine, and boom, more horsepower(umm, booms not a good word in describing nitrous )! But I never understood all the details and gadgets that go along with nitrous until reading thru this. Good post. Good answers.

 

[BadCarma]

Major, great job displaying whats out there! NOW you can answer all the tech questions that will pile in just kidding,I have worked with almost all of those systems but will only build and customize:
NOS
NX
ZEX
VENOM
As for the rest I don't care for them. you cannot use the Venom 1000 on NSX FYI you need the 2000. what I do is take these base kits (even the ones with the fancy control modules and tailor them to customer specs and custom setup's. once again great job showing what is out there.I am very impressed with the new NX control modules. its great to see people (you) do their homework and make informed decisions on what they will run on our awesome car.

Guy's, as a side note.I have found many of the systems out there to be marginal in quality and function. some say they will perform a certain aspect of control and fall far below the bar.others are fantastic. many state they control A/F and do to a certain degree but not to the extent I would trust it on my car. read between the lines and move slowly when focusing on what system you want.call the vendor and really pick the techs brain about pitfalls,if they blow you off move to another choice.the market and technology is expanding and so is the learning curve.good luck with your N20 and keep it safe!

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Last Night's Homework

There are three types of systems available: Dry, Wet, and Direct Port.

A dry system injects only nitrous into the motor through a jet or nozzle. The additional fuel required to achieve the correct air/fuel mixture is fed from the stock fuel system. This is commonly achieved by raising the fuel pressure when the nitrous is in use. The only drawback is if you are running near the limits of your stock fuel injectors, you may encounter a lean condition.

The second type is a wet system, where fuel and nitrous are injected together through the nozzle or jet. This alleviates any additional load on the stock fuel system, and allows for precise metering. This type is best used with intakes that are designed for 'wet flow' or in turbo/supercharged applications.

The third type is direct port, in which nitrous and fuel are injected separately into the intake ports of each cylinder. This is the most complicted type of install, as you need to plumb a nozzle for each cylinder. This is best left for experts like BadCarma that can make use of it's tuning ability, running more or less power for each cylinder for total optimization.

Even a simple system requires that you drill and tap something. Zex has solved that problem with the Ejector Air Amplifier. It is a replacement cone air filter with a nozzle that injects down the center. The vacuum created sucks in more air, 50 cfm w/75 shot, and works with any dry system.

Options may include a purge system that allows nitrous to vent into the atmosphere, ensuring that the system is full and fully charged with fresh liquid nitrous. Most companies have a nitrous filter that prevents any debris from clogging a nozzle. A remote bottle opener will allow you to open the bottle valve from the cockpit. Most systems come with a pressure gauge so you know when the bottle needs to be refilled. A bottle heater keeps the pressure constant during extended use. BTW-as long as we are tapping fuel lines, APC has a cool new fire extinguisher by Re-Works in black chrome for $65. United Performance Products from Catz has switches, panels, and purge bottons in all colors and carbon fiber.

http://www.4apc.net

http://www.fet-usa.com

The overly condensed version of an install goes like this, figure on 4-5 hours: Big pain is installing the solenoids, there are two and they both need to be wired and plumbed in a secure location. A throttle pedal activated microswitch is another pain. Install the bottle using the stock or optionally upgraded brackets. Route the blowdown tube to the outside. Run the nitrous line to the engine compartment solenoid. Install the nozzle with the supplied tap and hook up the nitrous line. Tap the fuel system and feed the fuel solenoid and connect to the fuel side of the nozzle.With the engine running, open the bottle and hope the engine speed doesn't change. Remember, nitrous should only be used at wide open throttle. Paint soapy water on all the joints and check for leaks/bubbles. How much power you make depends on the limitations of the motor. All systems can be configured through different orifice sized jets or through software to deliver various amounts of nitrous and fuel. When not in use keep the bottle valve closed. The only drawback is the weight of the system, about 15-20 lbs., there is no reduction of power when not in use. Check this site for nitrous system maintenance tips thread.

Maybe the purge should be hooked up to the air conditioning vent, why waste good laughing gas?

Nitrous is a great cost effective way to gain big power increases, but is not legal for street use in most states.

Street prices:

Zex basic kit $510
Zex Remote bottle opener $210
Ejector Air Amplifer $97

http://www.landspeedracing.com