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NSX shifting problem
- Thread starter JC
- Start date
I find all this interesting and I believe I have to agree with sjs. I read thru this thread this morning and I am experiencing the same issues in my 91 5 speed as the rest of you with your later models.
My car is actually on it's 3rd clutch and my car only has 47k miles!!! - I am convinced of two things - most people do not know how to "baby" a clutch for maximum longevity - plain and simple! Secondly the second clutch that was put in was put in by an Acura "mechanic" who used the wrong grease for the throw out or on the shaft - sorry I have never really taken one down to know the exact issue with the grease in my case but it was stiff and operated about mid point or below - so I thought it was bad. Turned out it had 40% of it's life left - just a bad install - good mechanics are not readily found at the Acura dealer!!! So glad I've had two good ones on mine - Barney and Eiffel - most fortunate.
Now I do believe that the other Ken (Chopsjazz) has driven his clutch a long way! I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in actually about clutch use and longevity and I'm looking forward to a very long life of clutch in my car - I never, ever ride the clutch - although it does engage very high on the pedal which is unusual for most other car manufacturers - but Barney assured me this was normal. If I ever had to replace it again - I would go to the new SOS model they've come up with recently!!!
As to the grinding from 1rst to 2nd - typical in cold conditions below 50 degrees or so. My Civic 2007 SI did the same thing. I found that I had to shift differently than I was used to in my 911 - you can actually feel the gate into 2nd in a Porsche and a little pause in nuetral and a little pressure on the gate before pulling it into the gear is necessar - THAT METHOD DOES NOT WORK on the NSX tranny. I had to adjust my shifting and even in the winter I can avoid that little grind into 2nd if I'm careful. I have to move a little slower but I have to move it on in - it's not a boomp pause boomp - it's more of a boomp boomp - if that makes any sense. It's all feel - the tranny is just slow into second when it's cold - plain and simple - it's just slow - balky not so much but it doesn't like cold weather. There should be a fluid warmer in these cars that would warm it up fast! But if you move the car out and into second in a smooth rather quick motion you will not grind but it is something you have to work at a bit.
That's all I can say about it - I do not think the tranny works very well when not warm - if you have a heated garrage - then you probably would never notice it unless it sat out in the cold where ever you parked it for a long period in the cold months. It's just touchy. I didn't like the tranny in the Civic SI for the same reason. But it's a lot better than any Italian tranny that old!!!! Now you talk about finiky- whew.
I am looking for a long life out of my new clutch - you can too if you learn how to use it - or as I say "baby" it! At 2400 a pop - you need to learn. Now in the NA2 - you really need to learn it - cause that clutch is super expensive. But correct me if I'm wrong - you can put the SOS clutch in the NA2 also - if I was replacing the clutch in my NA2 -that's what I"d do.
My two cents...
My car is actually on it's 3rd clutch and my car only has 47k miles!!! - I am convinced of two things - most people do not know how to "baby" a clutch for maximum longevity - plain and simple! Secondly the second clutch that was put in was put in by an Acura "mechanic" who used the wrong grease for the throw out or on the shaft - sorry I have never really taken one down to know the exact issue with the grease in my case but it was stiff and operated about mid point or below - so I thought it was bad. Turned out it had 40% of it's life left - just a bad install - good mechanics are not readily found at the Acura dealer!!! So glad I've had two good ones on mine - Barney and Eiffel - most fortunate.
Now I do believe that the other Ken (Chopsjazz) has driven his clutch a long way! I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in actually about clutch use and longevity and I'm looking forward to a very long life of clutch in my car - I never, ever ride the clutch - although it does engage very high on the pedal which is unusual for most other car manufacturers - but Barney assured me this was normal. If I ever had to replace it again - I would go to the new SOS model they've come up with recently!!!
As to the grinding from 1rst to 2nd - typical in cold conditions below 50 degrees or so. My Civic 2007 SI did the same thing. I found that I had to shift differently than I was used to in my 911 - you can actually feel the gate into 2nd in a Porsche and a little pause in nuetral and a little pressure on the gate before pulling it into the gear is necessar - THAT METHOD DOES NOT WORK on the NSX tranny. I had to adjust my shifting and even in the winter I can avoid that little grind into 2nd if I'm careful. I have to move a little slower but I have to move it on in - it's not a boomp pause boomp - it's more of a boomp boomp - if that makes any sense. It's all feel - the tranny is just slow into second when it's cold - plain and simple - it's just slow - balky not so much but it doesn't like cold weather. There should be a fluid warmer in these cars that would warm it up fast! But if you move the car out and into second in a smooth rather quick motion you will not grind but it is something you have to work at a bit.
That's all I can say about it - I do not think the tranny works very well when not warm - if you have a heated garrage - then you probably would never notice it unless it sat out in the cold where ever you parked it for a long period in the cold months. It's just touchy. I didn't like the tranny in the Civic SI for the same reason. But it's a lot better than any Italian tranny that old!!!! Now you talk about finiky- whew.
I am looking for a long life out of my new clutch - you can too if you learn how to use it - or as I say "baby" it! At 2400 a pop - you need to learn. Now in the NA2 - you really need to learn it - cause that clutch is super expensive. But correct me if I'm wrong - you can put the SOS clutch in the NA2 also - if I was replacing the clutch in my NA2 -that's what I"d do.
My two cents...
I also have that problem (2000 with 100k miles.) Seems to be a lot easier getting into 1 coming from 2.
It's been a long time since I've read it, but isn't that what the owner's manual recommends? So it's normal.
As far as clutch life goes. At 125K miles mine was starting to slip when shifting hard into 2nd. I went through all the service records that came with the car(including a service history print out from the Acura dealer) and could find no record of the clutch having been replaced prior(only the clutch master cylinder was replaced at 105K). It was an OEM clutch. Either the previous owners babied the car or someone had the OEM clutch replaced at some place other than a dealer and didn't keep the receipt(although it doesn't seem likely due to the amount of records/receipts this car came with).
This is a great thread, and think its great to have it get bumped for us "new-comers" to NSX ownership .
I bought mine in May, low mileage and very documented service records from day one. Nothing ever mentioned about clutch or tranny on any records.
One of the first things I noticed upon driving it initially (after all the people with twisting necks), was how the tranny felt, particularly 1st to 2nd, and 3rd to 2nd. - kind of like shifting in "Free-Air" (no resistance), and would describe it as putting a "square" object into a similar sized "square" hole...meaning that it you got it just right, it was fine, and solid feeling once in there, but if you happened to catch a corner fo the square trying to insert it, it was tough to fight it in....and just won't go, and almost had to start over. I have gotten used to it, but still a bit notchy overall.
The "free-air" meaning that it feels like no resistance, vs. say if something was being pressed through a liquidy gel...(I am not looking for "mushy" either though-just something that kind of "rounds out" the transition from one gear to another)
I changed my tranny fluid, with the Honda MTF fluid sold to me by dealer. (Not synthetic) it made no difference that I could tell. So although it is now put away for the season, I am following all threads tranny/shifter related, and be ready to try something different in spring.
I can attest to the fact, that when the car is colder the tranny is much notchier than warm, and when shifting very methodically (like slow and step by step as it goes from 1st to 2nd, feeling each step through the shift gate) makes it also less notchy. Speed/quick shifting needs to be very precise, or it bites back, at least on mine anyway. I am certainly no pro at manuals.
So my question is: lots of talk about Royal Purple, Amsoil, and GM synchro, along with various friction modifiers...on several differnet threads I have read of late. Some say yes, it helps, other say , friction modifiers will prematurely wear out tranny. Obviously, I would like longevity in my car's tranny, but if there is a way to get that "gel" feel to the shift mechanism, that would be nice. Is this in fact a tranny oil issue?...and if I did opt to try GM synchromesh with some GM Friction modifier, will I be doing more harm than good, just to reduce some of the notchiness? I hope I am describng this in a way that makes sense to you.
Is it like putting STP (for us old guys back in the day) in the engine to smooth it out? - short term fix on the surface, but probably was the sign of a deeper problem, and over the long run, made it worse once it burned out? From a layman's point of view, it would almost seem that the oil is too thin, and needs to be a bit thicker...like the contrast in kicking your leg in the air, or kicking it in the water....nothing is abrupt.
As a couple of side notes: I drove manuals for many years in the 80's and 90's - and never once replaced a clutch. Had over 250,000 kms on my 85 prelude when I sold it, same clutch just fine that I started with....my father drove an 82 Civic with 420,000 kms same clutch...no problems at all....
Obviously this is night and day comparisons to the NSX, but I do find that its a bit finicky to try and drive smooth (combination of the clutch and shifter). Maybe that is the inherent aspect of an exotic?
(or maybe just me...?)
Lastly, I had the occassion to drive a 99 Nissan Maxima SE yesterday, picking it up for a friend of my sons who indulged a bit too much at a Halloween party the night before. Without a doubt, this 5 speed manual in this car was the smoothest, easiest manual to drive I have ever driven. Car practically took off itself in 1st, no need to over acclerate, seemed to have so much torque on tap[...just a smooth transition of clutch and gas...and seemed to find all gears by itself, even though I had never driven it before...and had that "shifter going through a gel" feel...not once did I even feel the "edge" of a gear shifting up or down...very smooth, not floppy, but no resistance either...it was like a round object going into a round hole....kind of found its way with no rough edges. First gear was such that you could go from stop to decent speed without really needing to shift...of course in the NSX, you need to shift almost instantly....anyway, just some thoughts I would share on the topic from a non-technician.....
I find I need to keep RPM's fairly high in NSX to take off without chattering...where as in this Nissan, (comparing only) I think I was taking off pretty smooth and never going past 2000 RPM. Again, night and day comparison of cars, so don't flame me...just making a comparison from one manual to another. I am sure many of you have other manuals in sedan type of cars and can share comparisons as well. Its just funny how a 11 yr old Maxima can feel so much smoother and arguably, torqier than our NSX's....with coniderably more power and performance on tap...
(no need for someone to say "then go buy a 99 Maxima"...)
If anyone can make a suggestionfor me, to help me out with the NSX, I am willing to try it...for 3 litres of tranny fluid, I am willing to experiment a bit. I might try stopping by the local GM place this week and see if they sell it...
Also, is there a seperate procedure to change clutch fluid, or is this all part of the transmission?
Whoa, long post...I better stop now and leave the long posts to Tim....
(lol-all in good fun Tim)
Curtis
I bought mine in May, low mileage and very documented service records from day one. Nothing ever mentioned about clutch or tranny on any records.
One of the first things I noticed upon driving it initially (after all the people with twisting necks), was how the tranny felt, particularly 1st to 2nd, and 3rd to 2nd. - kind of like shifting in "Free-Air" (no resistance), and would describe it as putting a "square" object into a similar sized "square" hole...meaning that it you got it just right, it was fine, and solid feeling once in there, but if you happened to catch a corner fo the square trying to insert it, it was tough to fight it in....and just won't go, and almost had to start over. I have gotten used to it, but still a bit notchy overall.
The "free-air" meaning that it feels like no resistance, vs. say if something was being pressed through a liquidy gel...(I am not looking for "mushy" either though-just something that kind of "rounds out" the transition from one gear to another)
I changed my tranny fluid, with the Honda MTF fluid sold to me by dealer. (Not synthetic) it made no difference that I could tell. So although it is now put away for the season, I am following all threads tranny/shifter related, and be ready to try something different in spring.
I can attest to the fact, that when the car is colder the tranny is much notchier than warm, and when shifting very methodically (like slow and step by step as it goes from 1st to 2nd, feeling each step through the shift gate) makes it also less notchy. Speed/quick shifting needs to be very precise, or it bites back, at least on mine anyway. I am certainly no pro at manuals.
So my question is: lots of talk about Royal Purple, Amsoil, and GM synchro, along with various friction modifiers...on several differnet threads I have read of late. Some say yes, it helps, other say , friction modifiers will prematurely wear out tranny. Obviously, I would like longevity in my car's tranny, but if there is a way to get that "gel" feel to the shift mechanism, that would be nice. Is this in fact a tranny oil issue?...and if I did opt to try GM synchromesh with some GM Friction modifier, will I be doing more harm than good, just to reduce some of the notchiness? I hope I am describng this in a way that makes sense to you.
Is it like putting STP (for us old guys back in the day) in the engine to smooth it out? - short term fix on the surface, but probably was the sign of a deeper problem, and over the long run, made it worse once it burned out? From a layman's point of view, it would almost seem that the oil is too thin, and needs to be a bit thicker...like the contrast in kicking your leg in the air, or kicking it in the water....nothing is abrupt.
As a couple of side notes: I drove manuals for many years in the 80's and 90's - and never once replaced a clutch. Had over 250,000 kms on my 85 prelude when I sold it, same clutch just fine that I started with....my father drove an 82 Civic with 420,000 kms same clutch...no problems at all....
Obviously this is night and day comparisons to the NSX, but I do find that its a bit finicky to try and drive smooth (combination of the clutch and shifter). Maybe that is the inherent aspect of an exotic?
(or maybe just me...?)
Lastly, I had the occassion to drive a 99 Nissan Maxima SE yesterday, picking it up for a friend of my sons who indulged a bit too much at a Halloween party the night before. Without a doubt, this 5 speed manual in this car was the smoothest, easiest manual to drive I have ever driven. Car practically took off itself in 1st, no need to over acclerate, seemed to have so much torque on tap[...just a smooth transition of clutch and gas...and seemed to find all gears by itself, even though I had never driven it before...and had that "shifter going through a gel" feel...not once did I even feel the "edge" of a gear shifting up or down...very smooth, not floppy, but no resistance either...it was like a round object going into a round hole....kind of found its way with no rough edges. First gear was such that you could go from stop to decent speed without really needing to shift...of course in the NSX, you need to shift almost instantly....anyway, just some thoughts I would share on the topic from a non-technician.....
I find I need to keep RPM's fairly high in NSX to take off without chattering...where as in this Nissan, (comparing only) I think I was taking off pretty smooth and never going past 2000 RPM. Again, night and day comparison of cars, so don't flame me...just making a comparison from one manual to another. I am sure many of you have other manuals in sedan type of cars and can share comparisons as well. Its just funny how a 11 yr old Maxima can feel so much smoother and arguably, torqier than our NSX's....with coniderably more power and performance on tap...
(no need for someone to say "then go buy a 99 Maxima"...)
If anyone can make a suggestionfor me, to help me out with the NSX, I am willing to try it...for 3 litres of tranny fluid, I am willing to experiment a bit. I might try stopping by the local GM place this week and see if they sell it...
Also, is there a seperate procedure to change clutch fluid, or is this all part of the transmission?
Whoa, long post...I better stop now and leave the long posts to Tim....
(lol-all in good fun Tim)
Curtis
i recently got a new oem clutch with the gm synchromesh fluid,and shift feel is great-smooth cold or warm,solid feel,no notchiness,i can take off at fairly low rpm's if i want to (but not as low as the integra)
i don't like gm,never had any of their stuff,but do recall that rolls-royces had their transmissions back in the day.
i don't like gm,never had any of their stuff,but do recall that rolls-royces had their transmissions back in the day.
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- Joined
- 12 July 2010
- Messages
- 17
Hello, I have a question. I am running a NA2 and whe I shift from 1 to 2nd I some times get a nochy feeling in 2nd and it feels at times it doesn't want to go into 2nd gear. Same as when I drop from third into second it just feels rough. I have notice when shifting from 1st to 2nd if I hold the shifter to the left as I pull down into second from first it is a bit smoother. Has any one experience that?
and is there anything I can do to make it smoother? Is this normal? Or do I need this to be looked at?
I do realize this car needs to be driven and it can and likes to be driven and I would say that 2nd gear is most used, but the wear it feels it has does not sit right with me and is this normal for an NSX?
and is there anything I can do to make it smoother? Is this normal? Or do I need this to be looked at?
I do realize this car needs to be driven and it can and likes to be driven and I would say that 2nd gear is most used, but the wear it feels it has does not sit right with me and is this normal for an NSX?
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That was sly Curt....:biggrin:
When I was looking by scrolling down I thought I had passed my post twice....:biggrin:
ba-dum-ding
(simulated drum-snare-cymbal):biggrin:
(simulated drum-snare-cymbal):biggrin:
- Joined
- 12 July 2010
- Messages
- 17
Hi again, I have put this in another post as well to see if they might be able to answer. I contacted the original owner of my car when I ask the same question as above. His reply was:
I believe the clutch cyclinder on the clutch pedal is giving out, you may have to replace the slave cyclinder.
Can any one here be able to explain this too me?
What does that have to do with hard shifting into second gear? Is there soemthing I am missing?
Thanks in advance!
Cheers!
I believe the clutch cyclinder on the clutch pedal is giving out, you may have to replace the slave cyclinder.
Can any one here be able to explain this too me?
What does that have to do with hard shifting into second gear? Is there soemthing I am missing?
Thanks in advance!
Cheers!
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What year is your car, though you said na2 so I assume its a 6 speed. Dont worry about your slave. In regards to the slave, if it is leaking very very slowly, it wont hold pressure sometimes and wont fully disenguage the clutch so its almost like not pressing the clutch in all the way. Check your fluid level under the hood. I was just like you, you can probably find a number of threads about how I felt the car should shift smoother for an NSX. After numerous oppinions and even having the guys at autowave drive it, its just me. I realized all my cars (93 rx7, 06 350z, 97 prelude and my nsx) all felt "knotchy" i think its just me. I replaced the master and slave and it didn't do much because it was never broke to begin with. Going from 1-2 is the worst for me, and everyone told me (mechanics) that it is a tight set up, just make sure you fully push in the clutch then pull it and dont half ass the pull. Auto wave told me something along the lines that the 5 speed is more open you could say vs the 6 speed gears are really close so there may be some notchyness in the 6 speed. Down shifting from 3-2 you have to rev match the rpm to the speed, that helps me at least. Im happy to answer any questions I can as I was in your position and I got tired of people saying use the search feature, the search only goes so far.
- Joined
- 12 July 2010
- Messages
- 17
Thanks NSXFTW
It is a lot of piece of mind to be honest. I had a 92 Prelude and if I remeber right it almost felt the same. I will check the fluids and start there. Thank you for your advice and wealth of knowledge.
Cheers!
It is a lot of piece of mind to be honest. I had a 92 Prelude and if I remeber right it almost felt the same. I will check the fluids and start there. Thank you for your advice and wealth of knowledge.
Cheers!
You probably won the most oldest thread bumped of the year award!
I love revivals. I can't wait for the tale of ShiftyBob to resurface! Somebody do it, 'cause I don't have the heart to...
In the interest of the thread, my 95 converted to six speed is notchy under most of the already stated conditions: when cold, when the slave has "discharged" or low on fluid and when I half-ass the pull.
I'd say it is indiginous to the 6 speed breed and I am at 62K w/ RPS clutch.
- Joined
- 21 October 2010
- Messages
- 178
Greetings,
I have a problem when I put the third gear at high rpm, sound like a sincro, change recently transmicion oil by Repsol Cartago and continuing the problem. Which oil can I use to reduce the noise in the tranny?
Should a use honda MTL or redline?
Thanks.
I have a problem when I put the third gear at high rpm, sound like a sincro, change recently transmicion oil by Repsol Cartago and continuing the problem. Which oil can I use to reduce the noise in the tranny?
Should a use honda MTL or redline?
Thanks.
I never ended up using that cause it said not for limited slip diffs. and thought our trans oil was also used in our diff oil.
It does say not to use it for LSD's. At worst case, if the LSD locks up, it should just "skip" around tight turns. It's not like one side will lock up and send you spinning into a guardrail!
Well, I put it in anyways about a month ago since I had some Amsoil laying around. It replaced my GM synchromesh concoction (I think there was quart of the FM in there).
After about 250 miles, it seems the Amsoil is a little notchier but has gotten slightly better. I'll give it some more time though.
My $0.02.
Dave
I have it in my tranny for over 10k miles. Prior to that was the Honda MTF, Redline MTL, and Redline MT90. Both Redline exacerbated my notchy shifting. Then I read about the raving reviews on the GTO forums (and confirmed with the vette and Mustang forums) about the different tranny fluids everyone tried. At the end of the day Amsoil Syncromesh seem to have won by a large margin.
The GTO had stock ATF fluid which was replaced by Redline ATF fluid (same thing here - both notchy) then I poured in the Amsoil and VOILA! immediate difference. Was like hot knife through butter.
Immediately I bought more for the NSX and same results. As a matter of fact, my LSD seem to react faster.
Dave, I drained out the amsoil after the next oil change and poured some new amsoil in and it was better. What I think might be happening is that the residual fluid in there probably contaminated/diluted the Amsoil.
Hey Guys after reading thru this post I got amsoil mtf but it says 5-30 and the spec’s are the same so I put in car everything fine feels much better but now when its cold going from 2and to 1<SUP>st</SUP> is little bit hard I had issue going to 2and that doesn’t happen any more so please let me know if I need to get 1 without the 5-30 rating
http://www.worldsbestoil.ca/Synchromesh-Transmission-Fluid-MTF.php
Thanks
Ravi
http://www.worldsbestoil.ca/Synchromesh-Transmission-Fluid-MTF.php
Thanks
Ravi
I've had this problem since I bought my 2003 last August. It seems worse when cold. By cold, I mean not up to temperature as opposed to ambient temperature. Larry B recommended the Honda MTF which helped but didn't completely cure the problem. I found the best solution is to double clutch the shift from 1st to 2nd gear when she's cold. It shifts much better that way and I don't have to cringe at every shift. Your results may vary.
With all due respect to other posters on this forum, I would put a lot of
credibility to anything posted by Larry B. He's probably seen the inside of more NSX clutches and transmissions than any one else on this forum. If Larry says it... it's good enough for me.
Gary
With all due respect to other posters on this forum, I would put a lot of
credibility to anything posted by Larry B. He's probably seen the inside of more NSX clutches and transmissions than any one else on this forum. If Larry says it... it's good enough for me.
Gary
thanx as you sad i had issue with going from 1st to 2and that has been resolved with switching to Amsoil i was running Honda MTF first witch i had issue going to 2and but not anymore i was checking to see if someone was running same Amsoil as me had the same issue or it just could be me. as the amsoil I used sad 5-30 and pics i see on forum does not have any rating on bottle.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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