Oil leak help please

[TANTO]

So i just did a TB/WP job and all the LarryB coolant hoses. All went well, except a relulting oil leak. It was dripping in the area of the oil coolant block but after drying all off and rerunning the engine i found a healthy leak from about an inch above the dipstick tube/block junction. At first i assumed it was the dipstick as thats the only part of Larry kit i didn't install, but the tube is totally dry. It's about 1 inch above the dipstick/block junction at the tb cover to block. So i assumed i messed up the valve cover, but it looked good at dissasembly and i felt no oil below the cover gasket so i'm wondering what i'm missing. Any other culprets in this area? I may loosen the AC to get a better look. TIA

 

[Larry Bastanza]

So i just did a TB/WP job and all the LarryB coolant hoses. All went well, except a relulting oil leak. It was dripping in the area of the oil coolant block but after drying all off and rerunning the engine i found a healthy leak from about an inch above the dipstick tube/block junction. At first i assumed it was the dipstick as thats the only part of Larry kit i didn't install, but the tube is totally dry. It's about 1 inch above the dipstick/block junction at the tb cover to block. So i assumed i messed up the valve cover, but it looked good at dissasembly and i felt no oil below the cover gasket so i'm wondering what i'm missing. Any other culprets in this area? I may loosen the AC to get a better look. TIA

I would say that the front VC cover gasket needs some attention. Unless this is the classic cam position sensor drool. That's not like oil though...

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Honcho]

Larry I am having the same issue. Front cover is dripping down on front manifold and smoking. Gaskets are new. I used your permatex hi-tack trick. Is there a proper order to torque the cover bolts down? What do you use to clean the head mating surface?

 

[OLDMNSX]

Remove the suspect valve cover. Clean the sealant out of the 90 degree corners on the head around the cam covers. You may have to use an inspection mirror and light to make sure you get all of the old sealant out of the 8 corners. If you reuse the valve cover gasket, if it is good, make sure all of the old sealant is off of it too. I use brake parts cleaner to clean head surface and lightly wipe the gasket too. Make sure the whole gasket is dry to include the groove in the valve cover. This will insure that the gasket doesn't fall out of the valve cover and get pinched during installation.

Apply the sealant (Permatex/Honda Bond) to the 8 corners, about the size of a small pea, on the head in the corners (not on the gasket) and reinstall the valve cover. It's very easy to look at the gasket and think that putting the sealant on it would be a GOOD idea, but you will end up getting it all over areas that don't need it. Trust me, I tried it. (You get it everywhere BUT where it needs to go.)
Keep the valve cover square with the head as you lower it on head. After evenly tightening all of the nuts/bolts use your inspection mirror and light to inspect the corners, that you can see, to see if some sealant has pushed out. I let the sealant cure for at least 8 hours before running the engine.
GOOD LUCK.
Brad

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Brad's advice is sounding pretty good to me. In regard to sequence I do the two middle bolts first(by the spark plug holes), then the lower ones, (exhaust side), then the upper ones(intake side).

HTH,
LarryB

 

[TANTO]

Since my header needs recoating and it's getting cool, i pulled my headers and could see the leak was not from the VC but is coming from the junction of the " front timing belt cover plate" and the head/block. My question now, is this simply the related seal or is this from say the cam seal or something else? As i don't know if the this seal actually seals oil or if it's like the tb cover seal that is more a dust seal. It's like twilight zone as i did all this work and then i have a leak that can't be related to my work. So what are sources for a leak in this area? TIA

 

[Larry Bastanza]

The timing cover seals DO NOT seal in oil, just dirt. This is beginning to sounds like you have a bad cam seal, especially if it appears to be coming from where you describe. Besides the VC gasket, the cam seal is the only thing that seals oil in this area.

Also just above the cam seal is the VC gasket to seal the cam holder at that end. If you did not remove the VC to check you are still not really seeing the leak, remember the highest wet area is the leak. I am thinking you are seeing the result, but not the source, of the leak.

If it is the case that it is a cam seal, this leak existed prior, unless of course in this process you removed the cams. Did you?

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Tanto.

Behind the TB front cover plate, the rubber seals are positioned like this and the 2nd photo shows the mating surface.

As you can see, if the oil has seeped out from the cyl head behind the cover plate (narrow gap), the oil will be guided by these rubber seals to exit from the gap at the cyl head mating surface just below the exhaust side cam seal.

Anything seeped from the V-bank side will be guided by the lower seal towards the exhaust side.

Then, eventually, the oil will drip over the oil level gauge pipe just above where it is inserted to the eng block, as in your original post.


If the cam seals were damaged in the past or replaced but not installed properly, then the result is obvious.


Quite often, I saw seepage from the four edges where you apply the liquid gasket on the valve cover gasket where it sits on the #1 cam holder.

It’s the 90deg created by the cyl head and the half moon shape of #1 cam holder.
The old liquid gasket was not removed thoroughly or the surface was not degreased properly. Quite often, you will see white and black liquid gasket there because it was not cleaned at all.
On a few engines, I even saw blue, black and white liquid gaskets left at all four edges.


After #1 cam holder was removed and if the old liquid gasket under the holder was not cleaned thoroughly or new liquid gasket applied before the surface was degreased, then it will cause seepage but very slow one. Normally, it takes ages before you can notice it as oil seepage.


You seemed to have already checked but on many engines, I saw the gasket dislocated itself while installing the valve cover resulting in seepage.


As a side note, if the six rubber/metal washers under the valve cover fixing nut were not replaced or the mating surface of the valve cover gasket was not degreased, then it will be guaranteed to cause seepage but from what you wrote, it seems that these were not the case as you didn't see any wet areas where you can see/touch around the valve cover.

Kaz

 

[TANTO]

UPDATE FROM OP: I did not pull cams, so my leak coming from the bottom open "drain" area at the front right lower of the front head had to be the VC which i did do or cam seals which i did not do, so after i got my header back from coating, i decided to redu the front VC as Larry suggested and so far that appears to have done the job. I was even more careful this time. Note to poster above- i used 3m brake cleaner to clean the head surface although i make sure there is only a little on the rag as this cleaner will cause gaskets to swell. I previously used hondabond spots to hold the gasket. This time i used Permatex high tack, but only a few 1/8" dia spots. While i don't know if Larry said specidically, but i think uses his perma the same way. When i used to be a pro i would use high tach only to hold a gasket. I've never used it as an actual gasket sealer. Just wanted to make that clear. A full high tacked gasket is one f-ing mess. Thank god i baught a MaxJax lift. I couldn't imagine doing all this without it, and a TV, and a couple of Vodka's (i do my work late at night). Thanks all and happy holidays!

 

[Sportsmind4me]

I've go a similar issue and my car was smoking a little after a drive this morning. TB was replaced when I first got the car (2 yrs ago and 2k miles) and dye was put in the system to reveal that the vlv cvr gskts are leaking which were supposed to have been replaced by the dealer. I'm thinking I should take it back there or could this be a mis-diag by the tech and it actually be from the cam seals? Have kept check on oil levels and leak is minimal, just annoying.