Opinions, junky NSX, full Stage 3 SOS Rebuild and Turbo???

[nray]

Hi everyone,

I will be purchasing an NSX in April-May. I am toying with the idea of buying a cheap NSX in rough condition (high mileage) and completely rebuilding it. SOS Stage 3 engine w/ Lovefab Turbo, and obviously all the other toys to go with it... suspension, exhaust etc.

Please, I know how much this costs, you don't know how much I make (or have to spend) and NO... I don't want a Ferrari, Porshe or anything else (its a boyhood thing.. since the X came out).

I want to know has this ever been done? Yes I would be able to drive it as I have driven +400hp often and take driving lessons on a closed course a couple of times per year. Driving is my hobby. Obviously it would not only be a track car.

So what do you guys think ? Has it been done ? Results? Sound like fun?

Have a good one everyone and I look forward to continuing this discussion.

 

[nray]

Also, what other options are to be considered. I noticed that SOS has a fully built Naturally Aspirated Engine (3.8l) and then there is also the supercharger route.

 

[stuntman]

400whp+ is a lot of fun in an NSX. As long as the chassis is straight (not crashed), it would make sense, as you are going to replace all the suspension, engine, brake, interior components anyway...

Only thing to keep in mind in this build would be wheel bearings, bushings, and ball joints... all need to be checked/replaced on higher mileage cars.

Figure out what HP level you want and then make it reliable.

If you only wanted 400-450whp, it wouldn't make sense to build a 4.0L stroker, high compression, 100-shot, GT42R setup (exaggeration)...

 

[nsxman2001]

That setup sounds great. I toyed around with the idea of doing this also but I don't drive often enough for this to make sense..So if u have the funds to do this setup do it and make sure to make some nice videos to share with us prime members..

GOOD luck

 

[nray]

Stuntman, you are the race pilot is some vids I have seen, am I right ? If so you have mad skills, I wish that I was as good a driver as you!

I would not get a crashed car, that is for sure.

Well I have not thought that much about the HP, but I am thinking if I am going to put this much work into the project, why not aim high. Say 500-600whp.

I'm just wondering what the best setup would be, as I do not wish to build a drag racer.

So either go NA(3.8 stoker), turbo or supercharge. But I guess that is a question often pondered.

 

[stuntman]

Stuntman, you are the race pilot is some vids I have seen, am I right ? If so you have mad skills, I wish that I was as good a driver as you!

Yea that's me. Thank you. Those videos were of me in the 500whp Factor X NSX.

Well I have not thought that much about the HP, but I am thinking if I am going to put this much work into the project, why not aim high. Say 500-600whp.

I'm just wondering what the best setup would be, as I do not wish to build a drag racer.

So either go NA(3.8 stoker), turbo or supercharge. But I guess that is a question often pondered.

IMO, 400whp makes the car perfect and you'll be happy with it. 400 is pretty easily attainable. 500 is a complete blast, and proven to be very reliable as well, but usually requires a built motor.

Not sure about the 3.8L, hasn't had much time, development, or put under racing conditions and stress for longevity testing, also that's .6-.8L more than the motor was originally designed for... Also I don't think it'll be able to do 400whp NA... but you'd have to ask SOS.

Superchargers have made 400whp (rare) but have, and are usually pretty stressed.

Turbo is the most logical way to go, easy to get 400-500whp with a safe built motor, and many companies from FactorX, Lovefab, and HP have all made good numbers, some kits doing more track days and put through abuse (as a true testament of quality) than others.

Many have made 500+hp on a dyno, and for daily driven only use, -dosn't mean it's reliable.


My advice would be, talk to a company you can get good support from, discuss your performance goals and what it would take to get there financially and the positives (power) and negatives (reliability) of your power goals. Also it's a good rule of thumb to go with companies who have been doing it for a while, and have had many kits put through abuse and are still holding up well (rather than a small shop who just simply slapped on a turbo to the car without doing any development work).

Turbo NSXs are a blast, just make sure you are working with a group that will give you a reliable system. Nothings worse than oil leaks, blown motors, etc... every month.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I thought about this concept too. Certainly sounds appealing doesn't it? If you are looking for anything less than 550 whp, you can attain it quite easily with a turbo setup. I believe Factor X, LoveFab, and HP all have no problems getting to that level of power with just a single turbo. Just something to keep in mind.

But back to your originial question, if you go with the 3.8L displacement, I would go with a supercharger, rather than a turbocharger. There are several reasons why I think this. I won't go into all of them, but the main one I can think of is the dynamics of applying all that power. If you figure you can get about 350 whp with the 3.8L displacement, a good single turbo could easily get you around 650 whp (probably greater). For the most part, that is mostly unusable in normal street driving conditions. I only have about 450 whp and 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd gears are useless because I'm just spinning my wheels as soon as the boost kicks in. With the sudden on rush of power with a turbo, you simply won't be able to hook up and all that power is a waste, unless you are doing 60-120 mph runs. Or you go widebody and get some super sticky, super wide tires. If you supercharge the car instead, hopefully you will spread the power out more uniformly and maintain more usable power. I think that car would be a beast. You may not get as peak power as say a turbo, but it would be almost N/A-like wide and linear power. All usable power. If you could balance it right you would have an absolute monster. I would imagine it would feel what a Honda V10 engine must feel like. That would be too cool.

 

[nray]

Yeah, I am thinking SOS engine rebuild (stage 2 or 3) + lovefab turbo. 500 engine Hp would be good for me!

 

[stuntman]

but the main one I can think of is the dynamics of applying all that power. If you figure you can get about 350 whp with the 3.8L displacement, a good single turbo could easily get you around 650 whp (probably greater). For the most part, that is mostly unusable in normal street driving conditions.

I'm not sure how much SOS claims their 3.8L makes. On a separate note, you have kind of a vague jump from the 350whp NA 3.8 to a single turbo making 650whp, I don't really see the connection in what you were trying to get at in that paragraph. I wouldn't say that 650whp isn't totally unusable on the street.

I only have about 450 whp and 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd gears are useless because I'm just spinning my wheels as soon as the boost kicks in. With the sudden on rush of power with a turbo, you simply won't be able to hook up and all that power is a waste, unless you are doing 60-120 mph runs.

Also you have to keep in mind you're in vegas where the streets are slicker than rain. Kind of a weird situation over there... Anywhere else, 450whp would hook up alright in 2nd and 3rd.

If you supercharge the car instead, hopefully you will spread the power out more uniformly and maintain more usable power. I think that car would be a beast. You may not get as peak power as say a turbo, but it would be almost N/A-like wide and linear power. All usable power. If you could balance it right you would have an absolute monster. I would imagine it would feel what a Honda V10 engine must feel like. That would be too cool.

Supercharger will be more linear, not necessarily more usable or 'wider' power band. A properly done turbo would be fine for the street/track use.

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

I've seen many other people do it but not NSX guys. You could just put Cometic .140" HGs on to lower compression, and put to GT28rs Turbos on and call it a day until something goes that requires a rebuild. I know many BMW guys do this with great results. Its their greed and lust for more power which forces them to go and rebuild their motors

I've noticed the NSX has real good weight transfer. Sometimes adding too much power might just cause you to wait for traction before you start moving...

 

[Ponyboy]

Yeah, I am thinking SOS engine rebuild (stage 2 or 3) + lovefab turbo. 500 engine Hp would be good for me!

The SOS/Lovefab/Dreamsports listing and video on the SOS website shows their turbo did 534+rwhp on a Dynapack. Personally, I wouldn't necessarily up the displacement for more power. Just get the build bomb-proof, size the turbo correctly, and bump up the boost.

FWIW, my 3.6L NA (done by ScienceofSpeed) dyno'd 333rwhp/266rtq and I was very happy with it. Add maybe another 30-40rwhp with ITBs or a single plenum with enough volume.

 

[stuntman]

I've seen many other people do it but not NSX guys. You could just put Cometic .140" HGs on to lower compression, and put to GT28rs Turbos on and call it a day until something goes that requires a rebuild. I know many BMW guys do this with great results. Its their greed and lust for more power which forces them to go and rebuild their motors

Why? When one 30R or 35R would be more than enough, simpler, easier to tune...

I've noticed the NSX has real good weight transfer. Sometimes adding too much power might just cause you to wait for traction before you start moving...

 

[WOODY]

a 3.0 L , sleeved, with low comp pistons is a simple way to get your 500 rwhp when combined with current turbo options. no race gas needed and makes for an exciting daily driver!

 

[sahtt]

Depends on what you already have in your garage IMO.

I think a 335-350whp n/a NSX would be the most enjoyable all around experience. I've already owned several powerful/modified turbocharged cars and as much as I believe how fun a turbo NSX would be, unless outright power was your goal I think a built N/A drivetrain would nearly perfect the car without overly changing its character.

Perhaps it's because I own/have owned several supersport motorcycles. I firmly prefer balance over outright power, though I'm not claiming you can't build a well rounded turbocharged NSX, Factor X has already proven you can, at least IMO.

Going N/A to the extent of the above power levels isn't necessarily any cheaper or more reliable than going turbo in the end, but it is lighter and there is a lot less complexity involved, two traits I specifically like about the NSX I'd try to enhance before taking a completely different direction with the car.

However, if you are just looking to build the most powerful machine in your garage, a turbo NSX has the potential to destroy almost anything around a racetrack.

 

[Ponyboy]

I firmly prefer balance over outright power...

Very good point.

Going N/A to the extent of the above power levels isn't necessarily any cheaper or more reliable than going turbo in the end, but it is lighter and there is a lot less complexity involved, two traits I specifically like about the NSX I'd try to enhance before taking a completely different direction with the car.

Realtime used to get 400rwhp out of their NA NSX back in the hayday of the NSX in SCCA WC. IIRC, it was 400rwhp but had to be rebuilt after ever race. Trying to get 500 NA would be a wonderous feat.

 

[stuntman]

Realtime used to get 400rwhp out of their NA NSX back in the hayday of the NSX in SCCA WC. IIRC, it was 400rwhp but had to be rebuilt after ever race. Trying to get 500 NA would be a wonderous feat.

Realtime was supercharged, not NA:

 

[docjohn]

Old number 42 was na in the early years,that was probably when you were about 8 or 10 years old stuntman:wink:

 

[stuntman]

Old number 42 was na in the early years,that was probably when you were about 8 or 10 years old stuntman:wink:

Yes, but was it making 400whp then (n/a)? If so, how much hp was it making supercharged?

 

[Ponyboy]

Realtime was supercharged, not NA

Negative ghostrider. When the NSX won the WC T1 div in '97 it was NA and made somewhere around 400hp. I could dig it up w/ the search feature but I'm lazy tonight.

IIRC, the SC version made over 650rwhp. The actual Vortech unit was on sale several years ago here on Prime.

 

[stuntman]

Negative ghostrider. When the NSX won the WC T1 div in '97 it was NA and made somewhere around 400hp. I could dig it up w/ the search feature but I'm lazy tonight.

IIRC, the SC version made over 650rwhp. The actual Vortech unit was on sale several years ago here on Prime.

Request permission for flyby...

I was too busy playing with legos... but I doubt they made 400whp NA back then. Also their's a lot of tuners out there now and no one is making anywhere near 400whp NA on a 3.2L motor.

I also highly doubt Realtime made over 650whp out of the NSX from a supercharger. Plus World Challenge GT cars aren't making that even today, let alone back then. Current World Challenge GT cars making 400-550whp (they advertise 425-550bhp), but no where near 650whp.

 

[docjohn]

From what I recall the na version made about 355 rwhp and I was told the boosted motor was 450.Remember they rebuilt the na motor many times during the season.Btw Bill, leggos can be quite distracting .:wink:

 

[Ponyboy]

Did some digging and found several references to the Realtime/Comptech NSX having 380hp (Acura literature) and 390hp (magazine articles). But I remember reading somewhere that Comptech managed to get 400+hp out of their race engines but they needed to be rebuilt after each race. However, I could very well be incorrect in that rememberence.

I'll ask around to see how much supercharged hp RTR was running in WC.

 

[Bob Kenney]

Request permission for flyby...

I was too busy playing with legos... but I doubt they made 400whp NA back then. Also their's a lot of tuners out there now and no one is making anywhere near 400whp NA on a 3.2L motor.

I also highly doubt Realtime made over 650whp out of the NSX from a supercharger. Plus World Challenge GT cars aren't making that even today, let alone back then. Current World Challenge GT cars making 400-550whp (they advertise 425-550bhp), but no where near 650whp.

Stuntman,

If I recall correctly; I believe Rob Morrison's [Racer X-21] NSX was in the 650 HP neighborhood with a SC set-up. He had sent me some specs when he was selling the car.

But to the point; I have ridden in Woody's turbo-ed NSX and I am extremely impressed with the streetability of a 493 RWHP car. Additionally; I recall that Woody uses this car as a daily driver and I can attest that I have seen him diving it in rush hour traffic during a snowfall. :biggrin: Now that is dependable.

 

[omega2]

I just bought my 91 NSX several months ago and was completely blown away at how fast and smooth it drives considering it is still stock with 107,000 miles.

I too was debating the NA vs FI route prior to purchase. As far as horsepower goes, it really depends on what you want to use the car for and how much you want to spend. I have talked to several shops in Southern California and none have personal experience with stroking an NSX motor. Cost to horsepower comparison doesn't sound as appealing for an NA either. If 400hp and up is your goal, then the turbo with low compression pistons is your best option. Before I bought the car it was going to be a lovefab turbo, but after driving the car I figured the 500hp would be wasted on the freeway as I was flying past people with the stock engine.

Consequently, I am aiming conservatively for 350 to 370 hp with the stock engine. I just put in my order for a Comptech SC and hopefully it should arrive soon. Basically, I think you should drive the NSX around for a month and get a feel for the car. Since the car is light, it feels a lot different than most cars I've driven (mustangs and camaros), thus I lowered my horsepower goals and my project budget.