Porter Cable vs The Cyclo (random orbital polisher)

[Jay444]

I detail my cars myself most of the time. I am now considering purchasing a random orbital polisher to make this job easier. I have read up on various options...and I would like feedback on what seems to be the most popular choices... the Porter Cable 7336/7424 or the Cyclo.

I would like feedback from those who have used either one or both of these polishers (or similar ones for that matter).

I havent used one before...but I do have a few practice cars in mind before I try it on my NSX.

 

[mojo]

I've used the Porter Cable random orbital polisher, along with the polish and wax pads from Griott's, and love the results- much better than I can do by hand. Skip their wax removal pad - it's worthless; you'll have to still remove the wax by hand.

I haven't tried anything else to compare it against, but I really don't have any complaints.

 

[pt91]

A couple of months ago I would have said PC. It is cheaper, more pads are available and there are a lot of tutorials/info on using it. I have one, use it a lot. It doesn't do everything. Also many of the 7.5" pads I purchased for the PC are compatible with a rotary machine. This could mean less pads to buy long term.

I am now very seriously thinking about adding a cyclo. Here is one of several conversations that have me rationalizing the purchase of another tool!

If the cyclo is a little more powerful/faster at removing imperfections, this would be an advantage. The price difference is $100-$150.

Not sure if I helped or just confused you more :redface:
Let us know what you decide.

 

[DetailersParadise]

For someone just getting started, I say the PC. I have taught several training classes here and we request the students try both. They all appreciate the Cyclo on the flat surfaces of the hood/top/trunk, but by the end of the class the PC is running strong and the Cyclo sits.

Personally, I think the Cyclo has its place. It has more torque, more weight and seems to cut quicker. Again, this is great on flat surfaces, but sides take a little practice.

All biases aside, I sell both the PC 7336SP and the Cyclo. I could get you set up with either system.

 

[whealy]

I've used the Porter Cable random orbital polisher, along with the polish and wax pads from Griott's, and love the results- much better than I can do by hand. Skip their wax removal pad - it's worthless; you'll have to still remove the wax by hand.

I haven't tried anything else to compare it against, but I really don't have any complaints.

Ditto ... much less typing and reading this way.

 

[Hiroshima]

For someone just getting started, I say the PC. I have taught several training classes here and we request the students try both. They all appreciate the Cyclo on the flat surfaces of the hood/top/trunk, but by the end of the class the PC is running strong and the Cyclo sits.

Personally, I think the Cyclo has its place. It has more torque, more weight and seems to cut quicker. Again, this is great on flat surfaces, but sides take a little practice.

All biases aside, I sell both the PC 7336SP and the Cyclo. I could get you set up with either system.

I totally agree with this review. I think it would be very hard to control the pads when working near the wing, on the rear bumper, near the side mirrors, in and around the side vents with the Cyclo. The pads that I have seen on the cyclo just don't give you a lot of room for error, and with the speed they are going, if you bump into paint with the edge rather than the face of the pad, you are going to put a pretty good scratch in the car.

The weight of the thing alone makes it a chore to work on the verticle surfaces.

I use 6" and 7.5" pads on my PC. I really like having the extra saftey net of the 7.5" pads when comming up to complex areas.

JMO, I am sure that Mike Lee of Detailing Dynamics will have a lot to add as he has a lot of experience with the Cyclo.

HTH

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Get the PC. Home depot is best. I've been through about 4-5 of them and can say they are built like tanks; also the variable speed feature is great. Absolutely do not make your NSX the first car you learn to play detailer on with it.

 

[ANYTIME]

Buy the PC then read these instructions.

 

[SoCalDude]

Get the PC. Home depot is best. I've been through about 4-5 of them and can say they are built like tanks; also the variable speed feature is great. Absolutely do not make your NSX the first car you learn to play detailer on with it.

I beleive if you buy the PC through Meguiars, you get a lifetime warranty.

 

[white93nsx]

I totally agree with this review. I think it would be very hard to control the pads when working near the wing, on the rear bumper, near the side mirrors, in and around the side vents with the Cyclo. The pads that I have seen on the cyclo just don't give you a lot of room for error, and with the speed they are going, if you bump into paint with the edge rather than the face of the pad, you are going to put a pretty good scratch in the car.

The weight of the thing alone makes it a chore to work on the verticle surfaces.

I use 6" and 7.5" pads on my PC. I really like having the extra saftey net of the 7.5" pads when comming up to complex areas.

JMO, I am sure that Mike Lee of Detailing Dynamics will have a lot to add as he has a lot of experience with the Cyclo.

HTH

1) Control
a) Near rear wing, the two heads are more stable and with the 2nd hand on the unit, you can use your fingers to guide it along the contour of the wing and the motion is predictable where the PC has less control since you are trying to balance the unit and keep the pads flat on the paint.
b) Rear bumper, the Cyclo fits perfectly on the bumper surface so not sure what the control issue is here?
http://www.detailingdynamics.com/webgallery/Events/Asian/nsxday0408/pages/a011_jpg.htm
c) Near side mirrors- the mirrors pivot so that the Cyclo fits into every area. On any hard to reach area, no machine will effective work those areas and it usually needs to be done by hand in any case.
d) Side vents- the Cyclo fits right into the side vents to get most of this area and as with any hard to reach area, you may need to touch up by hand no matter what unit you are using. Ths PC's 6" or 7.5" pads is harder to get to the vent area than the 4" Cyclo pads.
e) On bumping the edge on the paint, in 10 years of detailing, I've never caused a scratch with the Cyclo? If you take a look at the unit, the buffing area of the Cyclo is either the pads or the rubber pad holders so not sure what areas would cause a scratch? Plus with a random orbital motion, the edges will not scratch the paint and if they did, with a PC, the pads are 6" or 7.5" which make the effective speed at the edge faster than the Cyclo's 4" diameter edge.

Remember this unit will be used on other cars besides you NSX so what's the stability when you have to polish your sedan's or SUV's roof. You'll always need two hands on the Porter Cable unit so you'll end up leaning on or laying on the roof thus possibly creating scratches while the Cyclo can be used with one hand.

2) The weight is what gives you the stability and to prevent vibrations that create fatigue. On vertical surfaces, you can hold the unit upside down with one hand for low areas while guiding it with your other hand to effectively and safely control the unit. Due to the two heads of the Cyclo, it is easily balanced and flat to the surface of the paint but with a PC, you are busy balancing the unit to try to keep the head flat on the surface. Also, the weight of the Cyclo helps with cutting and polishing while the PC needs you to use more arm strength to put pressure on the unit.
The Cyclo weighs 6.5 lbs vs. The PC's 5.75 lbs so there isn't much of a weight difference.

Also some pros and cons to follow.

 

[white93nsx]

The decision between these two are sometimes preference and economics but here are soem pros and cons:

The Cyclo Pros and Cons:
1) Pro- Exclusive dual orbital action heads feature polishing motions that simulate gentle hand-rubbed quality at industrial pace with effective coverage larger than a single head design.
2) Pro- Twin head design ensures surface pressure is always applied evenly.
3) Pro- The synchronized movement mirrors that of two hands rubbing in counter motion - an Overlapping random circular motion.
4) Pro- Balanced design vs. single head designs for stability.
5) Pro- 4" heads manage large areas and hard to reach contours with equal efficiency.
6) Pro- Exceptional stability and smooth operation.
7) Pro- Handle is center on unit for increased stability, control and ergonomics.
8) Pro- One hand operation under complete control. This is great when you need to reach for an area like high car roofs without leaning on top of (thus creating scratches with your clothes and weight).
9) Pro- Under light or heavy pressure, the Cyclo Hand Action Orbital Polisher remains steady and safe from swirls, gouging or heat buildup.
10) Pro- Constant speed with any load
11) Pro- Reliability (our shop uses it 14 hours a day for the last 10+ years without a failure). The units are industrial grade and made of heavy duty cast aluminum that are double insulated. Sealed, steel ball bearings and needle bearings. Easily serviceable long life carbon brushes and other changeable parts that are self serviceable and parts readily available.
12) Pro- designed in 1953 and approved by the government to polish military aircrafts and missiles so built to the highest standards and tolerances. Still used to polish the Air Force One fleet and major airlines worldwide.
13) Con- Tight interior spaces when shampooing carpets can be a challenge sometimes.

Porter Cable Pros and Cons:
1) Pro- Good starter Dual Action polisher and lower price making it more popular
2) Pro- Can get into tight interior shampooing areas
3) Con- reliability and cannot be field serviced. Reason Mequiars has a lifetime warranty is that it does break down so there is a waiting period to get it fixed. If you plan on using it often, this will be an issue. If you use it once or twice a year, it may not be.
4) Con- stability on hard to reach areas like the roof of cars or vertical surfaces.
5) Pro or con- variable speed- learning curve here is high- figure out what speed works or ask others who have used it for the sweet spot. Do you really need variable speeds since the DA action doesn't cause any heat (the main use for variable speeds is to heat generation for rotary type polishers, not DA polishers)

 

[DetailersParadise]

Both are great tools, but there is some mis-information concerning the PC.

The PC is lighter, well-balanced and can easily be used with one hand.

Reliability is not an issue with the PC. We have sold hundreds of units and have had two come back. Both worked fine when we received them.

The Cyclo is also a reliable product. I have been to the factory in Longmont and seen the manufacturing process. They take a great deal of pride in the quality of their tool.

Yes, variable speed is a nice feature. Different polishes break down at different rates. If you can control the speed of the polisher, you can better control how the polish works the surface.

Personally, I find the large metal surface above the heads of the Cyclo a bit cumbersome. You simply cannot service, with a 4" pad, close-in fine areas, such as directly around the base of the mirrors. This holds true for both the PC and Cyclo. The machine housing on either unit will hit the mirror. A larger pad will give you greater margin for error. It will also allow you to reach further under areas such as the spoiler or around mirrors. Certainly, a six inch pad won't fit in a five inch area, but a neither will a four inch pad fit in a three inch space.

 

[MJK]

3) Con- reliability and cannot be field serviced. Reason Mequiars has a lifetime warranty is that it does break down so there is a waiting period to get it fixed. If you plan on using it often, this will be an issue. If you use it once or twice a year, it may not be.

I've tried to stay out of this as I have a dog in this fight, but this is blatently wrong.
A) I've have access to the warranty rate on this tool, and even when used in countertop shops for 10-12 hours a day for years the return rate is virtually nil. Bevel gears wear on any angle drive, but the load on these is nothing compared to metal grinders that operate very durably with the same basic design.
B) There are service centers nationwide that can repair these with minimal turnaround time. Any PC or DeWalt service center should have parts in stock - not that you will ever need them.
C) Simple business acumen suggests that you only offer a lifetime warranty on tools that DON'T break. PC is not backing this program, so any expenses for new tools/repairs comes from Mequiar's profit. If it wasn't both profitable and a positive reflection on thier brand, I assure you it would be gone yesterday.

4) Con- stability on hard to reach areas like the roof of cars or vertical surfaces.

A matter of opinion I suppose, but mine works fine polishing the top of a 4runner palm grip style. Check to make sure that you have the correct counter balance installed for the size pad you are using.

5) Pro or con- variable speed- learning curve here is high- figure out what speed works or ask others who have used it for the sweet spot. Do you really need variable speeds since the DA action doesn't cause any heat (the main use for variable speeds is to heat generation for rotary type polishers, not DA polishers)

I find it pretty handy for flat vs curved surfaces, but your point is well made. Good pads, good compounds and no heat are the keys. However, it is pretty hard to mess up anything unless you are running it way too fast and not moving it.

 

[white93nsx]

On reliability, maybe they have fixed that problem. But a good business gesture to take the hit on the PC which is minute vs. their detailing product numbers is not out of the question. The warranty marketing does help some with peace of mind decision making. Just an opinion.

 

[Hiroshima]

Mike makes some great points. Some I agree with, others I don't but it is really not all that importiant. I think the bottom line for me is this: the best polisher between the two under discussion is the one that will get used, and used frequently. I think we can agree that both are reliable, both have + and -'s, and both are better than doing it by hand. So it comes to personal preference (IMHO). I would buy whichever one you (OP) feel more comfortable with. Try them both out if possible. Buy the one that works best for you, and not the one that others think are better. If you buy a tool you don't use, or are too scared to use, it is just wasted money.

 

[white93nsx]

Agreed. We are all different with different preferences and it will come down the what one is comfortable with, etc. That's why there are so many different brands and options available to the public to meet the different needs and tastes. They are both good choices so you can't go wrong with either.

 

[Jay444]

Thanks for all the responses.

Hiroshima...agreed. I need to (somehow) try both of them before purchasing one.

With respect to the Meguiars tool...if this is the same PC tool ...then it is listed at twice the price of the PC ($250Meguiars vs $125PC7424).

It seems as though the PC has a greater availability of polishing pads etc. I think this would translate into lower costs.

1. How often do the pads need to be replaced?

2. Can smaller or larger pads be used with either the PC or the Cyclo?

3. What is the difference between the PC 7424 and PC7336sp? The specs look similar...seems like the packaged accessories are the difference.

4. I think that the variable speed option would be a benefit. The cyclo is fixed at 3000rpm and the PC ranges from 2500-6000rpm. What are the incremental settings for the PC?

5. Does the Cyclo offer sanding pads? Their site says that the tool is a polisher/sander, but I couldn't find sanding attachments on their site. I do some DIY around the house...it would be an added benefit if I can use this tool for more than just detailing.

6. With respect to use, is there a difference between the two units (I.E. storing pads, changing pads, cleaning pads, applying polish/wax)?

7. I see that Meguiars offers a cordless polisher. I see the benefits of cordless (i.e. not dragging the cord over your car). Somehow though, for this job, I think that cordless might not be the best option. Any thoughts?

 

[MJK]

There is some pretty good info in this thread, pay particular attention to post #10 for the differences in the PC models. I have the PC, and have never used a cyclo. The PC variable speed is just a continuously variable dial with 1-5 numbers on it. The plates are velcro backed for swtiching pads. PC pads stink, get aftermarket - you'll want a velcro backed plate to do this. (I think PT91 had a good thread on this somewhere).

1. Depends on how you clean them after use.
2. You can change the backer plate for the PC to change sizes. I have no idea about the cyclo.
3. See the above link, post #10
4. Unlabled, it is just a 1-5 CVT Dial
5. Dunno, but most polishers can sand with different pads.
6. ?
7. I throw the cord over my shoulder. Dunno if there is a better way or not.

I'm sure you'll be very happy with either. Happy polishing.

 

[Hiroshima]

1. Like White94, it depends, but I hand was the pads after each use (sometimes twice during one use) with warm/hot water and dish soap. I use Proper Auto Care's pads (white, yellow, gray, and orange) and my most used pad is the white pad. It is a polishing pad with very little 'cut'. It has lasted over a year and a half and still going strong. I would estimate it has shrunken about 5% through use. I would guess I have 40 hours on that pad. All of it polishing which is harder on the pad than applying wax since you are pressing much harder.

2. The 6" velcro backed pad fits the 6" and the 7.5" pads from Proper Auto Care. The 7.5" pads are "vario-contact" meaning they have a tapered edge and a concave polishing surface. I like the 6" for polishing and the 7.5" for applying wax/sealant.

3. ???

4. Settings 1-2.5 on the PC I never use. They are too slow. I generally polish with settings 3-4.5. I sometime bump it up to 5 with finishing. I never use 6. There is no incremental clicks between 5 and 6, so it goes from pretty fast, to insane and unusable on a car IMHO.

5. ??

6. ??

7. I like White94 drape the cord over my shoulder. Proper Auot Care sells a thing called a monkey tail which covers the cord with a soft cloth material. I would still drape it as the cloth could pick up crud and drag it across your car though. I have never used a corless polisher.

As far as trying the PC out. If you are local to the Sacramento, CA area, you are more than welcome to come over and try it out with different pads, compounds, etc... LMK

HTH.

 

[Anthony Orosco]

As a pro I owned a PC for about a week. It bogs down and just has no umph.

I have several Cyclo's and I have been using them now for more years than I care to really remember and I have never had one do any damage to a cars paint or trim.

The pads are of the same material used for the PC pads so no difference there. The PC is a nice tool for laying down creme waxes and glazes but for power, torque, better results and a machine that will out live you, buy a Cyclo.

Anthony

 

[white93nsx]

5. The Cyclo does not have a sanding attachment to my knowledge. Also, the Cyclo uses only 4" pads.

Here is the Cyclo website if you haven't seen it yet:
http://www.cyclotoolmakers.com/index.shtml

 

[Jay444]

I'm a little confused on the 'heat generation' issue.

How can something that spins at 3000rpm not generate enough heat to damage the paint? Isn't it using heat to breakdown the polish/glaze? Isn't that why you can't apply a machine polish by hand since you can't generate enough heat when applying it by hand?

Also, for both units, what surfaces on the NSX do you HAVE to polish by hand (under the spoiler, parts of the front bumper/spoiler, edges of the air scoops/vents)?

 

[white93nsx]

The term is orbits per minute (OPM or random movements) and not revolutions per minute (RPM or spins). Read about rotary vs. orbital motion here 9on the 2nd page):
http://www.cyclotoolmakers.com/CycloProdSheet.pdf

If you pick up any orbital polisher, you'll notice you can spin the pad and also the whole pad/head will rotate off a second axis and in combination, this causes the random orbital motion. For a rotary, you just get spin from one axis where the outer edge is spinning fastest causing the heat buildup. Just think of a orbital as a rotary buffer but while it is spinning, it is also moving in random motions so that it is not stationarily spinning in any one spot.

On the NSX, the spots that you do want to do by hand are:
- under the wing
- base of side mirrors closest to the window
- areas on the side vents which cannot be reached by a machine
- door handle inside (many scratches here from fingernails)
- vents on front bumper
- rear diffuser under back bumper (including the area right above the exhaust tips)
- black air vents between trunk and rear window
- depending on how you tape/mask, the frame around the windshield and the antenna
- small exposed sections when you open the rear hatch window

There maybe other small areas not mentioned with angles and curves not suited for a machine.

 

[Jay444]

Thanks Mike. Good info.

With respect to the pads. I would think that the finishing pad would be the most used (as Hiroshima says).

When would you use the following pads (and with what type of product)?

1. cutting pad
2. light cutting/polishing pad
3. polishing pad
4. finishing pad

Are there other types of pads that should be added to this list (i.e. to buff wax)?

 

[white93nsx]

This selection guide is for the Cyclo pads and others can add their recommendations for the PC.

Look at the bottom half for the application and what pad to use.

http://www.detailingdynamics.com/padselector.html

Hope that helps.