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Purchase help: EVO IX or E39 M5?
- Thread starter jdm538
- Start date
Before we can objectively answer your question we need a lot more information on what and how and when you will be using this car because those are completely different sedans.
Do your M5 research here: m5board.com. That is a MUST!! (Just like I am doing for research on future NSX purchase here)
An E39 M5 is an expensive car to own if you want to keep it in good condition. They are at least 7 years old now and all those E39 V8's need to have the entire coolant system replaced if they haven't already - water pump, hoses, radiator, overflow tank. Then there is the pixels on the dash that will start to fail, trunk and or door lock actuators will fail.
I don't say this lightly. I had an E39 540 for 9 years and have had an E39 M5 for 18 months. I was fortunate to buy one of the last ones still under the BMW extended maintenance plan as well as the full coverage warranty, so all the work was current. It even had a relatively new S62 engine and clutch. That being said, the first year of my ownership it had $6,000 of repair work - thankfully nearly 100% covered by warranty. (headlights replaced, fan clutch replaced, seat motor assembly replaced, and more). That $6,000 was aside from the cost of the Inspection II and all new front rotors and pads - which thankfully were covered 100% under the BMW extended service plan.
Do not be fooled into thinking otherwise: A BMW M is expensive to keep everything running at 100% once the warranties and service plans go away. I am in the car business and have access to wholesale OEM car parts and also save a lot on labor - they are still expensive to own! And you will want to have ready access to an OBD code reader - it will help you understand what is really going on when you see the SES light. Most of the time it is over reacting, but it is still unnerving when it lights.
But holy Batman! They are sure fun to drive!! The E39 M5 is an absolutely astonishing sedan.
Do your M5 research here: m5board.com. That is a MUST!! (Just like I am doing for research on future NSX purchase here)
An E39 M5 is an expensive car to own if you want to keep it in good condition. They are at least 7 years old now and all those E39 V8's need to have the entire coolant system replaced if they haven't already - water pump, hoses, radiator, overflow tank. Then there is the pixels on the dash that will start to fail, trunk and or door lock actuators will fail.
I don't say this lightly. I had an E39 540 for 9 years and have had an E39 M5 for 18 months. I was fortunate to buy one of the last ones still under the BMW extended maintenance plan as well as the full coverage warranty, so all the work was current. It even had a relatively new S62 engine and clutch. That being said, the first year of my ownership it had $6,000 of repair work - thankfully nearly 100% covered by warranty. (headlights replaced, fan clutch replaced, seat motor assembly replaced, and more). That $6,000 was aside from the cost of the Inspection II and all new front rotors and pads - which thankfully were covered 100% under the BMW extended service plan.
Do not be fooled into thinking otherwise: A BMW M is expensive to keep everything running at 100% once the warranties and service plans go away. I am in the car business and have access to wholesale OEM car parts and also save a lot on labor - they are still expensive to own! And you will want to have ready access to an OBD code reader - it will help you understand what is really going on when you see the SES light. Most of the time it is over reacting, but it is still unnerving when it lights.
But holy Batman! They are sure fun to drive!! The E39 M5 is an absolutely astonishing sedan.
M Baker: thank you very much on the info I have been on the m5 forums a few times but no one there has ever given the down and dirty truth. Most members mostly speak of the warranty replacements and how fun the car is to drive.
I am in the market for a fast sedan. The cars on my list were Cadillac CTS-V, BMW E39 M5, STI, EVO IX. I narrowed them down to the 2 in my title because of what friends have told me about them. I am open to other options and ideas. Thank you so far.
I am in the market for a fast sedan. The cars on my list were Cadillac CTS-V, BMW E39 M5, STI, EVO IX. I narrowed them down to the 2 in my title because of what friends have told me about them. I am open to other options and ideas. Thank you so far.
I am an original owner of a 20 year old DSM extensively modified for track/AX. I have been driving BMW V8's for 10 years. I have driven a modern EVO quite a bit (part of the joy of being in car business). Before you read this list, understand I like both sedans, so I don't want any flames for descriptions, I am just trying to illustrate the differences - I proudly own both!. I feel that Mitsu has been building good AWD performance cars for quite some time and BMW is not too far off with their "Ultimate Driving Machine" moniker. My daily driver is a Honda.
As stated earlier, the EVO and the M5 are very different sedans, and I really would like to help, but I didn't get an answer from you on the how, what, why question on using the sedan, so:
Will it be your daily driver? If so, will you drive in the mountains in frost/snow?
If it will be your daily driver, do you have another car to use when the M5 is being worked on? (Notice I didn't say, when the EVO IX is being worked on!)
If it will be your daily driver, do you have a long commute at speed, a short commute of 20 minutes or less, or a stop and go heavy traffic commute?
Can you handle ongoing little BMW issues, like going out to your car and not being able to open the driver's door - from the outside or inside!? That's an example of various odd BMW problems that can happen as they get older. Short-term solution - enter and exit from passenger side. It happened only once in my E39 540 - note I didn't forget it.
VERY important specific to you: How are ergonomics - seat comfort, controls
Both need Top Tier premium, but is MPG important?
Is insurance cost important - Is there a difference?
If not your DD, will it be used mostly for fun drives on your days off?
Will you be driving it by yourself or do you need room for two or more passengers on a regular basis?
Do you want to do track schools/HPDE?
Will you want to autocross it?
Will you drag race it?
Does road noise matter?
Do you want a car that was designed to be able to safely go 155MPH all day long?
Do you want to drive a sturdy 3,300lb plastic lined tin can or a 4,000lb leather lined bank vault?
Are you looking for a sedan to build up to a show car?
Do you do most of the mechanic work yourself or have deep pockets to pay someone else to do the expensive work?
Are you comfortable with stupidly expensive M components of a BMW, i.e., OEM M5 brake rotors cost at least 3x's more than an OEM 540 or EVO IX brake rotor.
Do you like torque that can pull out small tree stumps?
Do you want the deep rumble of a V8 or the higher pitch of a I4?
Do you like to dump the clutch and do burnouts?
If it is a daily driver, and if you buy excellent tires for the M5 like Michelin PS2's or A/S Plus, are you OK with buying a new set of rear tires at $600 to $800 a pop every 13,000 miles (this is with NO burnouts and using DCS 99.9% of the time)
Do you want a car that takes an insane amount of money for better performance or a car that doesn't take much money to get an insane increase in performance?
Do you want to be in a car club, and if so, which is a better match for your idea of fun activites, those in the BMW club or the EVO/DSM club?
Which is a better match for your social goals, the BMW gang or the EVO/DSM gang?
This may seem trite and superficial, but if we are honest, we do think about it: What do you want to have other people (that matter to you) see you get in and out of?
If you did take it to work, which would you rather see as you walk out to the parking lot?
BTW, On your list I would have had the same two finalists for a sedan.
As stated earlier, the EVO and the M5 are very different sedans, and I really would like to help, but I didn't get an answer from you on the how, what, why question on using the sedan, so:
Will it be your daily driver? If so, will you drive in the mountains in frost/snow?
If it will be your daily driver, do you have another car to use when the M5 is being worked on? (Notice I didn't say, when the EVO IX is being worked on!)
If it will be your daily driver, do you have a long commute at speed, a short commute of 20 minutes or less, or a stop and go heavy traffic commute?
Can you handle ongoing little BMW issues, like going out to your car and not being able to open the driver's door - from the outside or inside!? That's an example of various odd BMW problems that can happen as they get older. Short-term solution - enter and exit from passenger side. It happened only once in my E39 540 - note I didn't forget it.
VERY important specific to you: How are ergonomics - seat comfort, controls
Both need Top Tier premium, but is MPG important?
Is insurance cost important - Is there a difference?
If not your DD, will it be used mostly for fun drives on your days off?
Will you be driving it by yourself or do you need room for two or more passengers on a regular basis?
Do you want to do track schools/HPDE?
Will you want to autocross it?
Will you drag race it?
Does road noise matter?
Do you want a car that was designed to be able to safely go 155MPH all day long?
Do you want to drive a sturdy 3,300lb plastic lined tin can or a 4,000lb leather lined bank vault?
Are you looking for a sedan to build up to a show car?
Do you do most of the mechanic work yourself or have deep pockets to pay someone else to do the expensive work?
Are you comfortable with stupidly expensive M components of a BMW, i.e., OEM M5 brake rotors cost at least 3x's more than an OEM 540 or EVO IX brake rotor.
Do you like torque that can pull out small tree stumps?
Do you want the deep rumble of a V8 or the higher pitch of a I4?
Do you like to dump the clutch and do burnouts?
If it is a daily driver, and if you buy excellent tires for the M5 like Michelin PS2's or A/S Plus, are you OK with buying a new set of rear tires at $600 to $800 a pop every 13,000 miles (this is with NO burnouts and using DCS 99.9% of the time)
Do you want a car that takes an insane amount of money for better performance or a car that doesn't take much money to get an insane increase in performance?
Do you want to be in a car club, and if so, which is a better match for your idea of fun activites, those in the BMW club or the EVO/DSM club?
Which is a better match for your social goals, the BMW gang or the EVO/DSM gang?
This may seem trite and superficial, but if we are honest, we do think about it: What do you want to have other people (that matter to you) see you get in and out of?
If you did take it to work, which would you rather see as you walk out to the parking lot?
BTW, On your list I would have had the same two finalists for a sedan.
I sold my nsx becuase I decided I wanted a sedan.
I drive a 240sx as a daily, and I pretty much love the car because of how easy it is to work on.
I do all the work on all my cars. I am looking for a car that is fast and will not be used as a DD, mainly for short fun drives.
I am over the showcar scene and I have taken a break from the expensive hobby of road racing.
I have a truck to take to the mountains and to tow my cars.
I do not street race but I do like to feeling the power of my car once and a while.
Just as long as I have A/C I am comfortable in any car.
An ideal car would be fast, easy to work on, not problematic, and have parts that are easily accessible.
I love the M-line of the bmw but from what you are posting I think I am now leaning towards the EVO IX.
I drive a 240sx as a daily, and I pretty much love the car because of how easy it is to work on.
I do all the work on all my cars. I am looking for a car that is fast and will not be used as a DD, mainly for short fun drives.
I am over the showcar scene and I have taken a break from the expensive hobby of road racing.
I have a truck to take to the mountains and to tow my cars.
I do not street race but I do like to feeling the power of my car once and a while.
Just as long as I have A/C I am comfortable in any car.
An ideal car would be fast, easy to work on, not problematic, and have parts that are easily accessible.
I love the M-line of the bmw but from what you are posting I think I am now leaning towards the EVO IX.
After reading your reply, without a doubt, EVO IX!
I own a stock 2006 Evolution IX MR and love it however keep the following items in mind when making a selection:
1. Insurance for the Evolution is expensive for a four year old vehicle.
2. Finding Mitsubishi dealership you trust for service / warranty work will be challenging.
3. Paint quality is the poorest I've ever seen in a modern day vehicle.
4. I'm surprised I can't think of anything else
If you do purchase an Evolution IX search for the "SE" model. The "SE" model is the best of both worlds (RS, GSR & MR). If you want warranty support, locate a non-modified Evolution which is rare now days. Don't rule out the Evolution VIII and Evolution X.
Be sure to visit http://evolutionm.net for any questions you may on the Evolution :smile:
Don't forget about the following all wheel drive four door terrors:
1. Volvo S60r
2. Audi S4 or TT 3.2
3. Acura RL
4. VW R32
5. The list goes on :tongue:
1. Insurance for the Evolution is expensive for a four year old vehicle.
2. Finding Mitsubishi dealership you trust for service / warranty work will be challenging.
3. Paint quality is the poorest I've ever seen in a modern day vehicle.
4. I'm surprised I can't think of anything else
If you do purchase an Evolution IX search for the "SE" model. The "SE" model is the best of both worlds (RS, GSR & MR). If you want warranty support, locate a non-modified Evolution which is rare now days. Don't rule out the Evolution VIII and Evolution X.
Be sure to visit http://evolutionm.net for any questions you may on the Evolution :smile:
Don't forget about the following all wheel drive four door terrors:
1. Volvo S60r
2. Audi S4 or TT 3.2
3. Acura RL
4. VW R32
5. The list goes on :tongue:
I own a 2006 Evo IX MR, and the only mod i have on it is a cat back exhaust. LOVE THE CAR TO DEATH. For the money, it's one of best sport sedans on the market.
E39 M5 is one of hte most smoothest car( with that much power) I have ever driven. I have owned mine since 2005 (bought a 2002 with 55K miles) and had very little issues. Currently the car has 77K and seems to run better than ever.
I would recomend driving the cars, before you make your final decision. Research online is one thing, driving should settle any reasoning or lack of.
Good luck!
Kenny
If simply driving the cars was the answer, that would be it. But it is not, a smart buyer looks at the total cost of ownership in time and money.
There is no question the E39 M5 is one of the best sports sedans ever built. And it is possible to go for a while with very little issues. But there will come a time when the coolant system will fail entirely in an E39. And the pixels will start going away on the dash, and the door/lock actuators will start failing here and there, and the power seat cable issue will arise, and the lower lumbar support will stop holding air, and so on. Then there is the dreaded carbon buildup in the secondaries which you fix for $8 grand, or buy a powerchip for $1 grand so you can pass emissions. And even if you do the work yourself, the parts are expensive.
After driving E39 V8 BMW's for over 100,000 miles, personally owning two, and also taking E39 540's and M5's in on trade at our dealership, and after watching all the comments on M5board.com it is possible I may have a little insight on the E39. So I posed all the questions above to cut to the chase and help him determine what he needs. Also, I been in the car business long enough to know that sometimes when people say their car has been trouble-free, and then I see their stack of service history receipts - there is a disconnect with their perception of what is trouble-free!
I figured I owed it to this guy to be quite frank on his choices having personally owned/driven both products. Everyone has a budget, and an M5 will cost far, far more to operate over time that a good solid Mitsubishi EVO. And the EVO is no slouch! That is a terrific car.
Put in my terms, maintenance cost is the reason I am going to get an NSX over a Ferrari. I don't want to have to pay $6,000 to $15,000 every 3 to 5 years for preventative Ferrari maintenance. Even though it is old, the NSX wins hands down in that area. I sell 150 to 200 Honda automobiles every year and have come to genuinely appreciate their solid engineering and build quality.
I would be interested in seeing the OP's answers to all my questions, but based on the responses I saw to the few that caught his eye, there is no question the EVO would be the best fit for him.
Mazdaspeed3 FTW!
Pros:
-Cheaper initial cost than EVO
-Interior quality about the same as EVO
-Power output is about the same as EVO
-Handling is excellent (beat my friend in his Lexus IS-F at Buttonwillow by 1 second in Track config #13)
-Is a complete sleeper
-Very reliable
- 1/4 mile trap speed about the same (sometimes faster) as the EVO
-More usable space (cargo space) than the EVO
-Relatively easy to get ~300-320 hp (intake, exhaust, ecu flash)
-Gas mileage around 26mpg mixed highway/city
-Almost always was rated #1 by most car publications in comparison tests (at least in the 2007-2008 time frame)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mpreza_wrx_2008_volvo_c30_t5-comparison_tests
Cons:
-No AWD
-1/4 mile time slightly slower than EVO
-Road handling not as good as EVO's AWD
-Less aftermarket parts following than EVO
-Very hard to get much over the 300 hp mark (i.e. No BIG TURBO POWA!)
-Definitely no comparison in fit & finish/convenience features as the M5
Pros:
-Cheaper initial cost than EVO
-Interior quality about the same as EVO
-Power output is about the same as EVO
-Handling is excellent (beat my friend in his Lexus IS-F at Buttonwillow by 1 second in Track config #13)
-Is a complete sleeper
-Very reliable
- 1/4 mile trap speed about the same (sometimes faster) as the EVO
-More usable space (cargo space) than the EVO
-Relatively easy to get ~300-320 hp (intake, exhaust, ecu flash)
-Gas mileage around 26mpg mixed highway/city
-Almost always was rated #1 by most car publications in comparison tests (at least in the 2007-2008 time frame)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mpreza_wrx_2008_volvo_c30_t5-comparison_tests
Cons:
-No AWD
-1/4 mile time slightly slower than EVO
-Road handling not as good as EVO's AWD
-Less aftermarket parts following than EVO
-Very hard to get much over the 300 hp mark (i.e. No BIG TURBO POWA!)
-Definitely no comparison in fit & finish/convenience features as the M5
Haha I've been deciding between the e39 m5 and an nsx. Right now the m5 is cheaper to purchase but I feel like the nsx is cheaper in the long run just because there aren't any issues with the nsx.. only required maintenance for a handful of major things. I found an m5 still under warranty and if it sells before I can buy it then I probably won't bother looking at another. It's only worth it because its under warranty. I would still prefer an nsx though. I would use both for regular driving and a rare track day.
I was looking at the 06 sti and evo x as well as good reliable sports sedans and those are definitely the better buy in this economy. But the prices for a good one step into nsx range. And I would rather drive my dream car before it gets too old.
I was looking at the 06 sti and evo x as well as good reliable sports sedans and those are definitely the better buy in this economy. But the prices for a good one step into nsx range. And I would rather drive my dream car before it gets too old.
Ok Mark, you win?
It's his money right? just like you have the right to your opinon and as am I.
"Enjoy your Journey" How you enjoy it, is ALL up to the person who funds it. :smile:
Later
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