Question for all you f/ic turbo users.

[DDozier]

I was actually pondering asking a handful of the socal guys if ya'll wanted to fly in Dave (assuming it was acceptable for Dave of course) but you guys beat me to it!

I see pros/cons to us flying out to St. Louis vs. Dave flying in.

You can count me as a solid tentative, timing dependent. I'm running OBD1 so i'll have to extrapolate how to adapt it to my car. However, my next car will be OBD2 so the knowledge will be invaluable.

I am not afraid to fly and I make several trips to Cali a year for business, but the amount of work needed to prep for this and have the right cars to demo and the right shop facilities to show you guys the real world cause and effect would be hard to pull off unless we had access to all the tools and dyno at the Cali location. I have everything I need hear at my shop including the classroom environment and the dyno. I think I can provide a better experience and a better learning environment here. The other advantage is with me being in the middle people can get here easily from any part of the country. I guess depending on interest I can work on a course study guide and see if it would translate to a road trip. I may be able to get some help from AEM themselves if the interest is there.

Keep in mind the main goal of something like this would be for you to learn the F/IC and how it works with the NSX OEM ECU. If all you guys want are tuning you have that near you already. Most tuners will not teach you anything, some can explain the process to help you understand what he/she plans to do with your car, but most tuners in my experience are not able to translate the tuning process into something the average guy can understand. Most are self taught and have learned to understand the process their own way and that does not always translate into a teachable thing. I am not knocking anyone in anyway but it is just the way I see it. Besides they may not want you to know too much.

Dave

 

[BobK]

Well, I just heard from Mase where I sent my FIC to see about firmware and as I had hoped after reading this thread when I sent the FIC back to AEM and they replaced the board they didn't put back in the proper firmware. Mase has now re-installed the right stuff and I will have my FIC back tomorrow. I sure hope this is all it has been. Thank Goodness for this thread and the knowledge that was imparted as a result of it. I will update tomorrow after I install it. Fingers and toes are crossed!!!!!!!

 

[SuperSonic]

Pull the codes and let us know what they are, but based on your description the car failed one of its emmision readiness test that are run after each start cycle to make sure the emmisions are working correctly. The test are there to ensure the O2 sensors, EGR, Cats, and Evap Canisters are all working correctly. Any one test fails and you get a check engine light.

Are you running a cat with your turbo?

Dave

Im almost positive it was stupid gas cap. I am catless, but have the bend off pieces will puts on there to avoid the light. It happened b4, i know i screwed cap on, but drove to ramon and he said i didnt screw it on. So i took it off, put it back on, took off battery to reset the ecu, now its fine. Its not like any other cap lol. Too hard and it doesnt work, too many turns its loose it seems. It needs 3-4 clicks, no more lol. I should just send you my chart and we fix my 1800-2200 rpm lean-ness in a jiff. I havent called tuner though for my hr drive its a 5 min fix im sure. Is it possible hook it up and just change the tune right there without a dyno, like just richen the rpm there to smooth it out?

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Rather than starting a new thread I thought I would add this here. I have a F/IC and a good tune that put my afr's smack in the mid-high 11's for great power and safety. After a few months my afr's steadily began to rise by
2 to 4, 10ths. I thought perhaps it was a change due to Florida temp changes and humidity. We'll, I saw 12.2 once at wide open and that was it. Time to upgrade my fuel pump from the original.

Purchased the Wabro 255 from SOS and had my trusted guy Larry at Sarasota Acura install the pump for the meager sum of $240.00. Definitely not worth 6 hours of misery on my part.

Well after a 30 mile run mixed highway, backroads and a few 4th gear pulls, my AFR's are now back in the low to mid 11's. Moral of the story, if you go Turbo or S/C, even a mild or low pressure setup (mine runs 7psi) upgrade your fuel pump.

 

[DDozier]

Moral of the story, if you go Turbo or S/C, even a mild or low pressure setup (mine runs 7psi) upgrade your fuel pump.

Not bad advice but keep in mind in your case you are dealling with a nearly 20 year old electrical device that spent its entire life submerged in a very powerful solvent and is made of metal and plastic. I am often surprised that they last as long as they do but I am not surprised at all when over time the peak performance has fallen.

Dave

 

[DDozier]

Im almost positive it was stupid gas cap. I am catless, but have the bend off pieces will puts on there to avoid the light. It happened b4, i know i screwed cap on, but drove to ramon and he said i didnt screw it on. So i took it off, put it back on, took off battery to reset the ecu, now its fine. Its not like any other cap lol. Too hard and it doesnt work, too many turns its loose it seems. It needs 3-4 clicks, no more lol. I should just send you my chart and we fix my 1800-2200 rpm lean-ness in a jiff. I havent called tuner though for my hr drive its a 5 min fix im sure. Is it possible hook it up and just change the tune right there without a dyno, like just richen the rpm there to smooth it out?

Lets hope it is the cap, if it is maybe it would be worth getting a new one. Since you are not running cats, you do have the potencial for a cat efficiency code to be popping up, the "J" tube extensions you have can help to reduce the possibility of seeing this code but if it becomes a prolonged problem send me a PM and I will send you some more info on a possible fix to the problem. We deal with this issue all the time in the modern HEMI and GM cars when we put long tube headers on them, the "J" tube trick does not work very well on them and additional steps need to be taken to prevent the CEL.

Next time it pops on go to AutoZone and get the code read so you know for sure.

Dave

 

[BobK]

I started another thread but wanted to let those interested that the proper firmware was all the car needed. THANKS AGAIN!!

 

[SuperSonic]

Glad to hear it was the tune, that made a huge diff in mine. I will say though that although it works better, wait to boost until fulllllly warmed up. I drove mine today and it felt it studdered for a very brief second. Probably cause of the o2's not warmed up and that batch firing thing dave said cause now that i think of it, the only very very brief second its ever studdered was b4 it was fully warm.

Dave, as for the j pipe rig, if i have to i can run the anti foulers. Had those on every car ive ran catless and they work everytime. Drove car today so far no check engine.

And is it possible for me to hook up a laptop, send you my chart and fix that 2000-2200 lean spike without having to go to a tuner? I just dont wana drive an hr back out there lol. Or maybe ill wait then go to bisi thats 2 exits from my work in a year after the 550 cc injectors and walbro fuel pump ( assuming i dont have it already)

 

[Flexer]

ddozer,

If your not using the o2 table to adjust the fueling, what tables are you using in the FIC to adj for it? And how big of injectors have you been able to go with the FIC?

JR

 

[DDozier]

Dave, as for the j pipe rig, if i have to i can run the anti foulers. Had those on every car ive ran catless and they work everytime. Drove car today so far no check engine.

And is it possible for me to hook up a laptop, send you my chart and fix that 2000-2200 lean spike without having to go to a tuner? I just dont wana drive an hr back out there lol. Or maybe ill wait then go to bisi thats 2 exits from my work in a year after the 550 cc injectors and walbro fuel pump ( assuming i dont have it already)

PM sent about the "J" tube.

If you get a scan tool that can read live data and your laptop connected to the F/IC I will talk you through the changes you need to make.

Dave

 

[DDozier]

ddozer,

If your not using the o2 table to adjust the fueling, what tables are you using in the FIC to adj for it? And how big of injectors have you been able to go with the FIC?

JR

The F/IC has a dedicated Fuel table that either limits or adds to the injector pulsewidth comming from the OEM ECU. It also has an O2 offset that lets you trick the ECU into almost any closed loop AFR you want so you do not have to run at 14.7:1 AFR while in closed loop. The OEM ECU is trimming for 14.7 all the time while in closed loop and some cars with wild setups can not do that and would need to run a little richer on idle and light load say 13.5:1. With the O2 offset tables you can have the F/IC modify the OEM O2 voltage comming from the sensor and change it before it goes to the ECU. While you can do this it is not needed on an NSX that is using an F/IC. If you need this type of fuel control I think you should put in a stand-a-lone and avoid the F/IC.

I have personally done 750cc, 580cc, 550cc, 440cc and 310cc the thing is you modify that injector pulse in percentages. and the OEM ECU is modifing the fuel trims in percentages. I have no real proof of this other than an observaton but the bigger the injector the harder it is for the F/IC to work with the OEM ECU. I think I have an explanation for this. Lets say the OEM ECU is calling for a 5% positive fuel trim in closed loop, 5% of a 750cc injector is a lot more fuel than 5% of a 440cc injector. I know the math does not translate dirrectly but the larger injectors cause the OEM ECU to overshoot the target 14.7 in closed loop more than a smaller injector will. It will correct but then with the larger injectors the correction the other way will overshoot as well and you get much larger swings in the AFR while in closed loop. None of this is really a major problem other than you may see it in fuel economy a little. But I have heard of people using really big injectors like 1000cc or 1200cc and at idle the AFR's will bounce between 14.3 and 15.1. I think this is because the correction factor in the OEM ECU is based off of 230-270cc injectors and it overshoots with the larger injectors. I could be completely wrong on why it happens but the larger injectors are harder to control than a smaller injector.

The real issue with the F/IC is the timing issue, according to Chris at SOS the limit for pulling timing is around 10 degrees, so that will limit boost long before the size of the injector will limit power. Assuming you are running gas and not E-85. I have not yet run anything over 9lbs with an F/IC so I have not hit the timing limit as described by Chris.

Dave

 

[SuperSonic]

Hey Dave. Appreciate the imput. It helps anyone going turbo. I decided to just have bisi tune it. This way I can have him adjust the partial throttle as well as tweak it to better suit my driving style, something that church didn't do. Maybe down the road I'll get 550 injectors and next time ur in Cali we can tune the 550's