Question Installing CTSC 2.3L on my NSX 1992

[gnadnes]

Hi guys, I bought a used CTSC 2.3L that came with all the hardware and alternator. The kit did not come with the ACM. The previous owner does not remember having one when installed in his car. I am in the process of installing it and wondering if any of you guys that are familiar with the installation process. I am planning on using 370cc injectors and use my stock fuel pump. I also got the fuel regulator that came with the kit. According to the instruction manual on the ctsc it will need the ACM connected to the ECU. Does anyone has the same setup without the ACM?

Thanks in advance.


rob

 

[DASHNBY]

If I am not mistaken, CT didn't offer a plug & play 2.3L SC. I believe the ACM is specific to either the 1.6L or 1.7L SC. You may need to use an aftermarket FIC or EMS. Perhaps contact CT Engineering direct to find out whether if you can obtain a custom ACM.

 

[gnadnes]

If I am not mistaken, CT didn't offer a plug & play 2.3L SC. I believe the ACM is specific to either the 1.6L or 1.7L SC. You may need to use an aftermarket FIC or EMS. Perhaps contact CT Engineering direct to find out whether if you can obtain a custom ACM.

dashnby, thanks for your quick reply. Now after more research and reading. Now I am not sure if my CTSC is 2.3l. I read that you can tell by measurement and by the look of it you can tell if it's 1.6 or 2.3. I read to on this link but not sure which point to measure. http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...e-assist?highlight=comptech+2.3l+supercharger

I already emailed CT engineering tech support and waiting for reply, i also incuded a picture. I hope someone can tell by the picture.

 

[DASHNBY]

Looking at the external casing of the blower, it appears like an Autorotor type blower. I have the 1.7L Autorotor on my car with the following RUFF (course) dimensions excluding the intake assembly and drive assembly; L: 8.5", W: 7.5", H: 5.5". Note the length dimension was measured from the otter most section of clear anodized sections of the blower. Height measures from the top of blower to the top of mounting flange of the discharge port. FYI, the other available sizes for the Autorotor type blower are 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6L.

 

[bruce91nsx]

Looking at the external casing of the blower, it appears like an Autorotor type blower. I have the 1.7L Autorotor on my car with the following RUFF (course) dimensions excluding the intake assembly and drive assembly; L: 8.5", W: 7.5", H: 5.5". Note the length dimension was measured from the otter most section of clear anodized sections of the blower. Height measures from the top of blower to the top of mounting flange of the discharge port. FYI, the other available sizes for the Autorotor type blower are 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6L.

except for the part where it says whipple charger, not autorotor. this is not a 2.3.
see http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/comptech_sc.htm
--bruce

 

[RYU]

Short of verifying the actual stampings on the casing...
1. This is a Autorotor (that sticker is misleading). The Autorotor has a machined casing like DASHBY mentioned. The Lysholm and Whipple have a cast / machined housing. There was some ambiguouity when Kenne Belle bought Autorotor and Whipple/Lysholm consolidated or whatever the heck happened in that industry around that time.
2. This is a ~2.3L. I have an old email from Nick @ CT visually confirming this in my inbox somewhere. I was once interested in this unit as well.
3. You can also verify the snout casting is much shorter on this. It's a rare unit and one of only a handful Comptech ever produced.

I'm of the opinion you would need bigger injectors and a dedicated EMS to really optimize this kit. Congrats on the purchase.

- - - Updated - - -

btw.. thru various phone calls and trying to do some forensics on historical events Comptech and Driving Ambition put forth some other kits out there which some funky engine management features. Perhaps Bruce might know but keep in mind this was maybe +10yrs ago. The high boost kits comprised of upping the voltage on the fuel pump voltage booster, putting bigger injectors, and other things like the ACM.

Like I said, this was probably one of a handful of kits sold. Don't think it was sold mass market.

Happy to hear more thoughts from some of the veterans on here like perhaps even Shad who doesn't come on anymore.

 

[gnadnes]

Short of verifying the actual stampings on the casing...
1. This is a Autorotor (that sticker is misleading). The Autorotor has a machined casing like DASHBY mentioned. The Lysholm and Whipple have a cast / machined housing. There was some ambiguouity when Kenne Belle bought Autorotor and Whipple/Lysholm consolidated or whatever the heck happened in that industry around that time.
2. This is a ~2.3L. I have an old email from Nick @ CT visually confirming this in my inbox somewhere. I was once interested in this unit as well.
3. You can also verify the snout casting is much shorter on this. It's a rare unit and one of only a handful Comptech ever produced.

I'm of the opinion you would need bigger injectors and a dedicated EMS to really optimize this kit. Congrats on the purchase.

- - - Updated - - -

btw.. thru various phone calls and trying to do some forensics on historical events Comptech and Driving Ambition put forth some other kits out there which some funky engine management features. Perhaps Bruce might know but keep in mind this was maybe +10yrs ago. The high boost kits comprised of upping the voltage on the fuel pump voltage booster, putting bigger injectors, and other things like the ACM.

Like I said, this was probably one of a handful of kits sold. Don't think it was sold mass market.

Happy to hear more thoughts from some of the veterans on here like perhaps even Shad who doesn't come on anymore.

Thanks RYU and everyone else, The model number stamp on the side where clear anodized is MX 422 23 77. I called Whipple and gave them those number and the guy I talked to said it is an auto rotor 2.2L. I also called Comptech and spoke to Nate, Told him that I have a comptech 2.3L(which I thought it was) and would like to know if I can buy an ACM, He told me that comptech did not produce a 2.3L supercharge and that their ACM won't work. Now my question is can I run the SC without ACM. I have extra set of RC 550 cc as a spare for future upgrade. I am in the process of installing it and so far I already installed the fuel pump voltage booster, RC 370 cc, Fuel pressure regulator but just missing the ACM. Worse scenario is to buy the EMS.


Thanks.

 

[RYU]

I can't remember what the ACM is for. IIRC it's either the voltage clamp for the MAP sensor or it's a way to trick the factory computer to run lean/rich. I haven't ran one in so long I don't remember.

Think of it this way. You're running a big blower with possibly the smallest injectors around with a pieced together archaic analog fuel management system. That's a recipe for disaster.

I highly advise at least a AEM F/IC but you're really best off with a HKS F-Con iS or F-Con VPro or even a simple AEM EMS. Just my $0.02.

I know the excitement is there. You want to get that blower installed asap. Take it from a guy who's "Been there". Do it the right way the first time and have many years of smiles.

 

[chudson1549]

See RYUs statement. You cannot run the car like that...well you can but you'll need another motor. At the least get an fic, for an OBD1 car and full stand alone is better and use the 550's

 

[gnadnes]

See RYUs statement. You cannot run the car like that...well you can but you'll need another motor. At the least get an fic, for an OBD1 car and full stand alone is better and use the 550's

I am ordering the AEM FI/C with the boomslang harness. I was hoping to take it to run it and take it to the tuner but I guess It will need to be towed or ask the tuner to come to my place.


Thanks

 

[cmc140]

My advice would be to call Shad at Driving Ambition. www.drivingambition.us

It's my understanding that Comptech did play around with some 2.3L compressors, but didn't produce kits with them. To me it looks like someone with the know-how put this together with the Comptech boost-a-pump fueling arrangement. If that is the case it very well could have been Shad. The pulley looks huge so it may very well be okay to run it with those injectors, if you're running at 6psi of boost max. That was the targeted max boost level on the standard Comptech kits, with the 1.6L compressors. However, without talking to Shad I highly advise against it as others have. As a point of reference, I upgraded to a 2.3L compressor and had a 4.6" pulley made by Comptech that produced roughly 8psi of boost on my intercooled 2.3L, which would be roughly 9psi on a non-intercooled car with a 3.0 engine.

As far as an ACM goes, I thought the Comptech NSX supercharger kit had the boost-a-pump and an ESM. It sounds like you have the boost-a-pump box that sits on the inside firewall by the fuel pump relay. The ESM is a little black box that was spiced into the wiring harness that made sure that map sensor never saw over 5 volts.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/153141-Comptech-ESM

Lastly, it looks like the screw plugs are not in the lower right side of the manifold. These are used for boost gauges or what ever else has a 1/4" npt fitting. Anyhow, you will want to block them off if you haven't already.

 

[gnadnes]

My advice would be to call Shad at Driving Ambition. www.drivingambition.us

It's my understanding that Comptech did play around with some 2.3L compressors, but didn't produce kits with them. To me it looks like someone with the know-how put this together with the Comptech boost-a-pump fueling arrangement. If that is the case it very well could have been Shad. The pulley looks huge so it may very well be okay to run it with those injectors, if you're running at 6psi of boost max. That was the targeted max boost level on the standard Comptech kits, with the 1.6L compressors. However, without talking to Shad I highly advise against it as others have. As a point of reference, I upgraded to a 2.3L compressor and had a 4.6" pulley made by Comptech that produced roughly 8psi of boost on my intercooled 2.3L, which would be roughly 9psi on a non-intercooled car with a 3.0 engine.

As far as an ACM goes, I thought the Comptech NSX supercharger kit had the boost-a-pump and an ESM. It sounds like you have the boost-a-pump box that sits on the inside firewall by the fuel pump relay. The ESM is a little black box that was spiced into the wiring harness that made sure that map sensor never saw over 5 volts.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/153141-Comptech-ESM

Lastly, it looks like the screw plugs are not in the lower right side of the manifold. These are used for boost gauges or what ever else has a 1/4" npt fitting. Anyhow, you will want to block them off if you haven't already.

Great Info.The bottom right is with allen wrench type plug (silver color bolt). The guy where I bought it from is still looking for the ESM. In my understanding when buying this kit, I was under the impression that there is not much tuning as long as you keep the OEM ECU with the ECM installed. I am okay with 6psi of boost and then upgrade later on with Stand alone EMS, walbro fuel pump, etc.

 

[cmc140]

The kit you purchased isn't the standard Comptech / CT-Engineering kit. Someone put it together with the bigger compressor. Everyone who has upgraded to the bigger compressor has done so for more power. They also have some type of engine management and bigger injectors. It's very likely that the compressor on the system you bought will make too much boost for the standard Comptech fueling. That is why I suggest talking to Shad. If it's not something he put together I would not use it without an aftermarket engine management and bigger injectors like the other people have mentioned. What is the size of the pulley?

 

[NSX-Files]

I am ordering the AEM FI/C with the boomslang harness. I was hoping to take it to run it and take it to the tuner but I guess It will need to be towed or ask the tuner to come to my place.


Thanks

The FIC isn't really ideal on an OBD-1 car such as yours because your tuner can't monitor the fuel trims as you can on an OBD-2. From the SOS site: "The F/IC may be used on earlier model OBD1 1991-1994 NSXes. However, since these cars do not allow scanning of short and long term fuel trims, the cars will need to be retested after initial tuning for part throttle conditions (idle, part throttle acceleration)."

I think Primer Batman had an FIC on his with the 2.1L blower and that ended in tears. Maybe the FIC wasn't the reason, I'll let him comment. But the standalone, with bigger injectors, like 550's, while more expensive is really the better way to go than the outdated CT fueling scheme. Just IMHO.

 

[gnadnes]

The kit you purchased isn't the standard Comptech / CT-Engineering kit. Someone put it together with the bigger compressor. Everyone who has upgraded to the bigger compressor has done so for more power. They also have some type of engine management and bigger injectors. It's very likely that the compressor on the system you bought will make too much boost for the standard Comptech fueling. That is why I suggest talking to Shad. If it's not something he put together I would not use it without an aftermarket engine management and bigger injectors like the other people have mentioned. What is the size of the pulley?

My pulley is 5". I will call Shad in the morning to verify. thanks

The FIC isn't really ideal on an OBD-1 car such as yours because your tuner can't monitor the fuel trims as you can on an OBD-2. From the SOS site: "The F/IC may be used on earlier model OBD1 1991-1994 NSXes. However, since these cars do not allow scanning of short and long term fuel trims, the cars will need to be retested after initial tuning for part throttle conditions (idle, part throttle acceleration)."

I think Primer Batman had an FIC on his with the 2.1L blower and that ended in tears. Maybe the FIC wasn't the reason, I'll let him comment. But the standalone, with bigger injectors, like 550's, while more expensive is really the better way to go than the outdated CT fueling scheme. Just IMHO.

Thanks for your input NSX-Files. Now I am thinking of getting the AEM EMS2.

Question for all the experts, Where does the MAP vacuum line that is coming from the bottom of the intake manifold goes?

Thanks In advance.

 

[chudson1549]

You can download the instructions from comptech. They are the newer ones...I cannot find my old instructions to send you

 

[gnadnes]

You can download the instructions from comptech. They are the newer ones...I cannot find my old instructions to send you

I have the Installation manual printed out and read it multiple times, infact it was really informative and help me a lot with the installation process for newbie like me. I also have the NSX service manual for torque specs. What is not clear to me is on step 6 on CT engineering manual from their website it says " Be sure to run the 20” (MAP sensor) vacuum line out the drivers side of the manifold and run the 25” (Fuel Pressure Regulator) and the 30” (Boost switch) vacuum lines out the passenger side of the manifold so that you can connect them in a later step." I followed the instruction but it does not discuss in other steps. I also got another instructional manual from http://www.sportcompactonly.com/manuals/Brand/Comptech/ins048.pdf and in here it clearly state how to connect vacuum lines, switching hoses 3 & 4, Cap one of the vacuum port coming from intake manifold which was not mentioned in the CT Engineering manual. I am already done with the installation except for the vacuum lines and I am hoping someone can enlighten me with this.

Thanks

- - - Updated - - -

The kit you purchased isn't the standard Comptech / CT-Engineering kit. Someone put it together with the bigger compressor. Everyone who has upgraded to the bigger compressor has done so for more power. They also have some type of engine management and bigger injectors. It's very likely that the compressor on the system you bought will make too much boost for the standard Comptech fueling. That is why I suggest talking to Shad. If it's not something he put together I would not use it without an aftermarket engine management and bigger injectors like the other people have mentioned. What is the size of the pulley?

I spoke to Shad (Nice guy) and He is not sure if it was his built but He told me that I would definitely need a Stand alone engine management. So forget about ACM/ECM or the AEM FI/C. What is weird to me is that I called the previous owner hoping that he can find the ECM and could not find it. He told me that this SC was installed in his car for 3 years and running fine without any engine management.

 

[RYU]

I agree with Shad in using a standalone EMS.

With an EMS you will not need to plumb any of the items in the instructions that have to do with the original Comptech fueling and electronics. That's where you'll need a mechanic or do lots of research on how to install a fuel pump (Please get a Denso Supra pump or equivalent because my Walbro failed on me after less than 1yr), how to install a fuel pressure regulator, and the corresponding vacuum lines. It's not something any of us can really just post up a How-To-DIY on here.

If you bought a standard CTSC kit then, yes.. it's all just a bolt-on process. You bought a special kit that was pieced together. If Shad didn't put together then you're at the mercy of figuring it out yourself.

Again, best case scenario... get the EMS and install all the components to compliment it. You will end up tossing away ALL of the comptech fueling bits which include the Vortech rising rate fuel pressure regulator, the ACM or ECM, the boost pressure switch, the boost-a-pump amplifier, etc..

 

[gnadnes]

I agree with Shad in using a standalone EMS.

With an EMS you will not need to plumb any of the items in the instructions that have to do with the original Comptech fueling and electronics. That's where you'll need a mechanic or do lots of research on how to install a fuel pump (Please get a Denso Supra pump or equivalent because my Walbro failed on me after less than 1yr), how to install a fuel pressure regulator, and the corresponding vacuum lines. It's not something any of us can really just post up a How-To-DIY on here.

If you bought a standard CTSC kit then, yes.. it's all just a bolt-on process. You bought a special kit that was pieced together. If Shad didn't put together then you're at the mercy of figuring it out yourself.

Again, best case scenario... get the EMS and install all the components to compliment it. You will end up tossing away ALL of the comptech fueling bits which include the Vortech rising rate fuel pressure regulator, the ACM or ECM, the boost pressure switch, the boost-a-pump amplifier, etc..

I was under the impression that what I bought was a standard CTSC kit that even came with instructional manual from comptech. I already in the process of installation finding out that it was a custom built. I already spoke to a mechanic/tuner and will take my car for the EMS and fuel pump installation. I will look into the pump upgrade. Thanks

 

[RYU]

Good luck man. We'll try to help where we can.

If p.o. said it worked then why not install all of his components and drive it real slow to the dyno for a baseline run? You have a big pulley on there so perhaps its only pushing 5-6psi of boost and might be enough for all the old comptech fueling stuff.

Its a little too risky for me and I'd go straight to the ems myself...

 

[gnadnes]

Good luck man. We'll try to help where we can.

If p.o. said it worked then why not install all of his components and drive it real slow to the dyno for a baseline run? You have a big pulley on there so perhaps its only pushing 5-6psi of boost and might be enough for all the old comptech fueling stuff.

Its a little too risky for me and I'd go straight to the ems myself...

Done with installation!!!! thank you guys for your input. Thank you NSX-File (David) for sending me that instruction. I started it and so far it has a smooth idle. i drove it approx 20-30 miles/hr but it seems like I don't feel the boost. I don't want to push. I am defenitily getting the stand alone but at least I can take to the shop which is approx 10 miles away from me.

 

[NSX-Files]

Done with installation!!!! thank you guys for your input. Thank you NSX-File (David) for sending me that instruction. I started it and so far it has a smooth idle. i drove it approx 20-30 miles/hr but it seems like I don't feel the boost. I don't want to push. I am defenitily getting the stand alone but at least I can take to the shop which is approx 10 miles away from me.

Congrats! I know it's hard (at least it was for me) but resist the urge to "test" it and get into boost. I wasn't able to resist and fortunately nothing bad happened, probably because I had uploaded a tune onto my EMS that was from a similar car with the same SC kit. As soon as practicable I got it to my tuner for a precise tune on the dyno.

Not to worry you, but if indeed you don't get the proper boost, make sure the bypass valve is not stuck open. Good luck with the kit, it really transforms the car!

David

 

[gnadnes]

Congrats! I know it's hard (at least it was for me) but resist the urge to "test" it and get into boost. I wasn't able to resist and fortunately nothing bad happened, probably because I had uploaded a tune onto my EMS that was from a similar car with the same SC kit. As soon as practicable I got it to my tuner for a precise tune on the dyno.

Not to worry you, but if indeed you don't get the proper boost, make sure the bypass valve is not stuck open. Good luck with the kit, it really transforms the car!

David

I agree it was hard for me too just like when I did my headers, it took me 10 days lol but I work on it at least 2 hours a day( I usually stop when I get frustrated) and last night was the longest( work on it until 3am). It pays off, I know that sometimes you just have to leave to the experts and not all are for DIY'S. I think I just want to challenge myself and want the feeling of fulfillment. I can't deny that there is fear and anxiety before, during and after the installation. Update: During the first drive test I felt that there is something wrong with the idle and has no power on acceleration. I checked my connections finding out that 2 of the coils are not connected duuuuh. So the second test drive was a breeze, I can feel the boost and the smoothness of the idle and acceleration. I was really careful with acceleration and not over revving. I am calling my tuner tomorrow to see which stand alone is good for me. BTW, Are you referring to the bypass valve of the supercharger? Mine was installed in the bottom manifold so I guess I cannot check it until I remove the SC again in the future. Is there a symptoms I need to know if the bypass valve is malfunctioning?

 

[DASHNBY]

Thought to post the link below:

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/content.asp?PageID=80

Explains why gnadnes Autorotor SC bares a Whipple badge.

 

[gnadnes]

Thought to post the link below:

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/content.asp?PageID=80

Explains why gnadnes Autorotor SC bares a Whipple badge.

Thanks for sharing this. Now I am more convince that mine is an Autorotor 2.2L. When I called whipple the guy I spoke with was confident in telling me when I gave him my part number which was engrave on the right side of the Blower.