RYU's "properly molested" NSX build thread

[stuntman]

Makes a lot of sense and great idea. I'm still trying to think of how to do something similar in my future turbo setup.

KW has their DDC -remotely adjustable damping: http://www.kw-suspensions.com/ddc

You have a race suspension. Set it for the street and forget it. Go to the track, set it and forget it. Or buy the above

 

[RYU]

Killer updates.

Regan, your thread is very motivating and so inspirational.

NP! Glad I could help you spend more money. We all need to do our part to help the economy lol

Makes a lot of sense and great idea. I'm still trying to think of how to do something similar in my future turbo setup.

KW has their DDC -remotely adjustable damping: http://www.kw-suspensions.com/ddc

You have a race suspension. Set it for the street and forget it. Go to the track, set it and forget it. Or buy the above

Wow, I just spent some time on the KW site. They are coming up with some cool stuff. Didn't realized they had that DDC system. Very cool. Just wish I could understand German because the videos are in Deutsche! lol I also took a quick look at their hydraulic lift system. I wonder how much that costs. I'm not sure I prefer it over the air setup I designed since theirs looks like it's still twice as slow and if a leak occurred i'd have hydraulic fluid to clean up. Still very very cool. Hope to see it in person someday.

Anytime you need help with your exhaust setup you know how to reach me. I know someone locally who is a great fabricator and understands the concepts of my exhaust. It would be easy to build something for a turbo setup. To me, a valve operated exhaust gives you the best of both worlds and doesn't add too much more weight if done right.

 

[RYU]

So I found out from JRZ that my dampers ship with at 220psi canister pressure. JRZ recommends I don't go under 150 psi and not over 350psi. Every 50+/- psi equates to 18lbs of spring rate. So that's a range of ~72lbs of spring rate adjustability just by screwing around with the canister pressures. Pretty neat for when i'm as good a driver as Billy and can actually feel the difference lol

I'm going to leave it at 220psi and try some softer springs. Going to try a bit softer than Type R rates but dang... which one?

Front Front Rear Rear Front/Rear
Units lb/in kg/mm lb/in kg/mm Percent
Stock '95 NSX-R 447 8.00 319 5.70 140%
Stock '93 NSX-R 447 8.00 336 6.00 133%
Stock '97 NSX S/Zana 363 6.50 279 5.00 130%
Stock '97 NSX S Zero 448 8.00 336 6.00 133%
Stock '02 NSX Type-R 582 10.40 465 8.30 125%

I'm currently on 11.00 9.00 122%
I'm thinking of trying 9.00 7.00 128% (I already have 9k front springs and really liked 9k in the DG5s)
I'm also thinking of trying 8.00 6.00 133% (I already have 6k rear springs)

I have to watch some old Best Motoring videos comparing the old Type vs. new Type R vs. S Zero. haha

Someone just make a decision for me...

Update: I realized my Dali Track front track bar and my Zanardi rear bar already lends itself to some front bias as compared to the NSX R so that might give me some headroom to go with a softer spring in the front I suppose.

 

[RYU]

I guess it's time for an update.

I recently ran, for the first time, Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway. I had an amazing time with [MENTION=6942]ryneen[/MENTION] and [MENTION=25108]illwillem[/MENTION]. The car ran great but what was even more awesome was riding with Ryneen. He knows that track like the back of his hand! Overall the car stayed cool. Ambient was in the 70s so it wasn't too hot. My best time was in the high 1:48s. Kind of mediocre but i'll take it!

Even with the valves open in my exhaust I didn't get Black Flagged for exceeding the 105dB sound limit. Ryan did though and he had to put on his cats. I really don't think their sound check system is all too accurate. My car is clearly louder than Ryan's. I think i'm just a pussy and don't go balls out before T6 (which is where the sound booth is)

This was Ryan. THE BEAST

I also camped with Willem and friends. That was definitely a highlight as well.

This 911 had a pretty cool "Laguna Seca" spec exhaust that was externally bolted down to the tow hook and pointed opposite of the sound check mic.

In prep for the MRLS event, Ramon helped me upgrade my old, tired ABS a newer spec 2000+, often incorrectly called the "NA2" ABS unit. I got the harness from KSP in Japan. I had the opportunity to compare to SOS's harness for the same kit. There are some pros/cons but overally I like the KSP better. The KSP is easier to get thru the firewall since there are smaller connectors mid-harness (SOS's you have to force the huge connector thru the firewall). SOS also uses some weird hot glue on the connectors. I guess the sealant is good but I think unnecessary if the crimps and molex connections were done right. I do like the way SOS did the pins on the power supply for the harness. This way you can just undo the pins on the old harness and slip these in. KSP uses extra wires you need to tap into the fusebox. It's effective, but not as clean of an install.

I had the ABS light pop on a few times at the track so I think I have air in the system.

SOS Harness

vs KSP Harness

This part from the SOS harness I liked but didn't outweigh all the other stuff I didn't like.

Now that i've had a few thousand miles on my JRZ dampers and 11k/9k springs with my lift kit and the OEM top hats, I decided to try pillowball mounts and proper aftermarket top hats. I also decided to swap springs to 9k/6k which is a not-optimal 150% bias vs. a 133% bias (like the latest Type R) on a 8k/6k or 9k/7k. I already own the 9k 6" front Swifts, and borrowing the 6k 7" rear Swifts. Thought i'd save some money and try to balance it out with sway bar and damper settings. We'll see...

After hours of machining and help from Jon K it's finally all put together again. Oh, I also swapped to the Hyperco helpers again from the Swift helpers. I needed the extra length of the Hypercos.

On a side note:
Since I needed to adapt my pillow ball mounts (Thanks [MENTION=9655]CDX_NSX[/MENTION] !) to my lift kit pistons/cups, I learned how to use a manual lathe. It was strangely therapeutic and fun.

After over 10yrs of searching I finally found a matching set of old HKS exhaust tips! I have to start planning for a new exhaust design which might take another 10yrs hahaha

 

[solidol]

Everything looks great, Regan. Thanks for harness comparison SOS vs KSP - this is on my list of upgrades too. Very helpful.

 

[RYU]

Just some quick feedback on the 9k/6k spring setup on the JRZ RS Pros...

Oh my!

I think I found the sweet spot for how these dampers are valved from the factory. There is so much range in these dampers now. Amazing... I'm quite excited about getting started to tuning them.

Still not sure if I want to go down 1k in spring rate in the front or up 1k in spring rate in the rear. I'm leaning towards upping the rear resulting in a 9k/7k 128% bias.

Still shocked at the dampers (no pun intended haha). They've come alive at these rates. The 11k/9k before always seemed like they needed a minor revalve to tame some of the bounce... maybe in the slow speed side.. Who knows... I might still like the stiffer rates which are fun at the track.

 

[ThaiT]

love your build!

i have a hks sport with those tip that will be for sale when i get my new exhaust finished =p

 

[RYU]

love your build!

i have a hks sport with those tip that will be for sale when i get my new exhaust finished =p

Thanks! I never knew HKS made an NSX exhaust with these tips. Could you post a pic?

 

[ThaiT]

Thanks! I never knew HKS made an NSX exhaust with these tips. Could you post a pic?

Here a pic of the tip. this isnt a picture of mine but i can take one when i get home

 

[RYU]

Ah nice. Yes, that is the single tip version i'm familiar with. I also had that exhaust when I first bought my NSX. I loved it for what it was. It's a ~4" tip with a uniquely rolled and crimped outer edge. I was hoping you had a picture of a dual tip version like the one i'm planning to make sometime in the next 10yrs haha. I don't think they ever made a dual tip exhaust for the NSX.

- - - Updated - - -

The ones I picked up are about half the size. Good luck with your sale. Should sell quick!

 

[Track Addict]

Ryu, very nice build thread. I really like your attention to detail and the very pragmatic approach to your build. Can't wait to see it when it is all "done"

 

[Valhalla]

Like the rest of us, it will never be "done". But he is getting closer. Kind of like that light at the end of the tunnel, is it the daylight or an on coming train! Now his next NSX.......

 

[Track Addict]

Like the rest of us, it will never be "done". But he is getting closer. Kind of like that light at the end of the tunnel, is it the daylight or an on coming train! Now his next NSX.......

Exactly...we're never done. That's half of the fun!

 

[DreamPowered]

Great updates as usual. Really liked the idrive video too.
With the constant changes and upgrades. Is there any steps you would taken diffently, or was it all a learning experience resulting in better fine tuning?

 

[RYU]

Thanks guys. I desperately want to be "done" but I also suffer from constantly wanting it to be better. I am getting close though where the improvements are so incremental its no longer worth my time. It's also offset by the amount of fun achieved when finding the right setup.

For example, learning the JRZ damper and how well they seem to work with these softer springs was like a nice revelation. I had no idea the behavior would be so dramatic. I can't even think of an analogy that works.

- - - Updated - - -

Great updates as usual. Really liked the idrive video too.
With the constant changes and upgrades. Is there any steps you would taken diffently, or was it all a learning experience resulting in better fine tuning?

This is an interesting question. If there's anything I've learned its that ignorance is bliss. If you're happy with what you've got then stop. If you don't it never ends. There's always someone else with a better setup.

Would I have done things differently? Probably not.. I don't know much but the education I've gained so far has been invaluable and fun.

 

[DreamPowered]

I believe the best mods are well thought out and even better executed.
I thank you and the other members who constantly take the time to document and update their builds as is helps create a great database for other's to follow and emulate on the quest to make each NSX perfect as the owner see's it.

 

[nsxvtecvtec]

nice build.

 

[RYU]

So i'm now on 215/40/17 & 265/35/18 Continental ExtremeContact DW tires. They are great all around tires and lighter on the arms when turning. Not as responsive as the RC1s or even the Star Specs but they are way quieter and more comfortable. For now I prefer them and like them a lot. For track days I just put on the RC1s again.

I'm in the process of tuning my dampers for the new spring rates. I think I may end up with a lot more compression stiffness than rebound stiffness on these softer springs. I guess that makes sense. In the stiffer previous setup, I generally ran a bit more rebound than compression. I don't like that it's skipping/gliding over a lot of bumps right now. Feels like too much rebound. We'll see where I end up...

Drove the car to work today. I love driving this thing.

 

[jwmelvin]

Where did you find those tires? I don't see them on the TireRack or Continental web site.

 

[RYU]

Where did you find those tires? I don't see them on the TireRack or Continental web site.

It's because they are ancient! My friend had them in a warehouse collecting dust.

Here's an old review on them if interested. They rated higher than the star spec Z1 in overall performance which was interesting because I love the Z1.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/continental-extremecontact-dw-page-6

 

[john_staxx]

Your car is one of the reasons I wanted CE28. Fast forward a couple years I had to get special order a set in Titanium Gunmetal. Looking good as usual.

What brake setup are you running?

JC.

 

[RYU]

Did some aggressive driving this weekend. I'm starting to get used to the spring rates, yet even with the soft rates I don't really experience the mid-turn floaty feeling upon hitting a bump. I remember that sensation on cheaper damper with soft rates. It could often be a pucker up inducer.

Still shocked at how much range the JRZ dampers have. It's one of those things where people say it all the time but you really need to experience it to believe, especially for small-brained simpletons like me. It's been a new learning experience I've never had this much damping range in any of my cars with various different coilover setups. It's WEIRD It makes me want to rig up some kind of electronic damper adjustment system for a true Jekyll & Hide setup. Just need to lock down the spring and sway bar rates.............................

In terms of performance, I'm noticing a little too much high speed understeer. I have to lift off too much throttle to shift the weight back to the front to grip. It's a really safe setup now but I think it's a slow setup. I don't know.. maybe I just need more seat time and more tweaking of the dampers. I'm leaning towards buying a set of 7k or 7.5k rear springs. The good news is the car feels more stable and confidence inspiring. Confidence inducing setup is worth it's weight in gold.

- - - Updated - - -

I also want to raise the car another 5-10mm.

 

[Zoom]

If you're feeling confident and slow, quite often it means you're actually fast. Try and have a lap timer or something like onboard monitoring to measure up the result of change in your settings, otherwise it's too much guesswork for you alone to process.

 

[RYU]

I felt compelled to write more feedback on this clutch. I have about 5k miles of mixed driving and it just keeps getting better and better. The engagement has become smoother yet more crisp. It really fits a type R sort of mentality. It doesn't always like to cooperate in the parking lot or in stop go traffic if your left leg gets lazy but if you shift slightly more aggressive but not too aggressive it rewards with a very controllable and rewarding engagement feeling. I can feel the engagement right thru my toes. It makes the oem clutch feel lifeless, dampened, and muted in comparison.

If you buy the best parts you have to help the parts express themselves. This clutch needs to be driven with the eternal sportsmind (lol)

its like the goldilocks of clutches. Not too racy. Not too lifeless. It feels like a type R.

now how about that noise again?

I've gotten some questions and PM's on the OS Giken STR2C twin disc clutch. Here's a quick review after about 300 miles of break-in driving. In a nutshell this is the best clutch I've ever tried in the NSX. Billy has this in his personal car so please correct me if you disagree with anything stated here. It's subjective and opinions are always open to debate.

Here are other clutches I've tried.
* stock 5spd
* stock 6spd
* Clutchmasters FX300 single kevlar multi-puck
* RPS Single
* RPS/SOS Twin Carbon
* SOS 275 (Or whatever they call their "Sport" clutch)
* Exedy twin
* Exedy single
* Notable mention to the Comptech Power Grip which I have NOT tried.

Build Quality - 9/10. The machine is work is outstanding but i'm on the fence about whether or not they could have made the flywheel lighter.

Pedal Pressure - Positive and a tiny bit lighter than stock. I owned a stock 5spd 91 NSX recently so it was easy to compare back to back. The stock is more springy and more dampened. You couldn't feel the engagement thru your left foot but instead rely on your other senses to feel the car moving or the engine lowering in RPM as clutch engages. The OSG is much more crisp, positive, and not springy. It's consistent in pedal pressure throughout the pedal travel but with a slightly narrower sweet spot before the clutch fully engages. It also doesn't engage as high a stock clutch. It feels appropriate for a sports car (not a race car). I'm of the opinion that the OSG pressure plate is actually very heavy (for high HP) but their slave cylinder "Alteration Kit" add more leverage so it feels like stock. Great engineering.

Engagement - I'm very impressed with the engagement. I could talk about it for a long time but won't. Suffice to say it's easy to modulate and there's virtually no chatter (but you can make it chatter if you try). It's very easy to sense where the catch point is and it's more sensitive, in a good way, than stock or my Clutchmasters for that matter. The metalic disc have an interesting nature to it. It will allow for some smooth slippage when you're taking your GF to a nice dinner and don't want to pin her head to the headrest and induce whiplash but if you slam the clutch it responds like an ON/OFF switch as well and you can tell your motor mounts are working hard. It's dual nature in that way. I'm very impressed.

Noise - It does make noise when the clutch pedal is depressed for that short moment in time. Some kid thought my car was broken but it not loud and offensive like the Exedy version. Perhaps once I get more miles it will get louder. If you WPC the friction plates the noise is actually lower. I'll also drive a few other NSXs with and without the WPC treatment on their STR2C in the coming months for more comments. CDX_NSX just got his installed and he's got about the same amount of miles on his but he's got a 500wHP motor.

Torque Holding Capacity - I'm noticing no issues at all with my CTSC but a track day will be more telling.

MOI or Rev-eagerness - 7/10. I don't notice any difference from the Clutchmasters I had though I am supercharged so spinning the compressor will dull my revs already. I feel like the SOS Twin Carbon is more rev happy however I stalled that car twice and i'm not a rookie driver so it comes with some expense to daily driving imo. The STR2C is a good street/track clutch which suits my car.

Anyway, I'm a fan if you can't already tell.

 

[mteele]

I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but are you on the OEM flywheel still? Really appreciate all the feedback on the clutch. Mine is due to be changed by the end of the year and I want to add some holding capacity for a future turbocharger