RYU's "properly molested" NSX build thread

[OptiCole]

Great posts! Don't get too hard on yourself for 2:09s (even though that's moving!) on what I am assuming is CCW #13? Going from 2:10 to 2:09 to 2:07 to 2:04s is better than trying to go from 2:20s to 2:08s with the win or spin attitude. I also take some time growing confidence in things that involve consequences, haha.

BTW - car looks great!

 

[Valhalla]

You really need to have two NSX's. That way, maybe one of the them will be on the road on any given day!

 

[RYU]

Great posts! Don't get too hard on yourself for 2:09s (even though that's moving!) on what I am assuming is CCW #13? Going from 2:10 to 2:09 to 2:07 to 2:04s is better than trying to go from 2:20s to 2:08s with the win or spin attitude. I also take some time growing confidence in things that involve consequences, haha.

BTW - car looks great!

Thanks! Appreciate it. I think 2:09 is about the most I can muscle my car. With a Supercharger and BBKs it's a lot of muscling. The rest of the 4 secs I hope will come with some instruction from friends like Jim, illWillem, Ryan, and other drivers better than me. Seat time was my goal this year. Wasn't expecting my car to require so much maintenance so early on

You really need to have two NSX's. That way, maybe one of the them will be on the road on any given day!

I do have 2. They're both down! I'm towing the other one to get smogged this wknd. Long story.

 

[OptiCole]

Looks like you need three then. (Just don't bid on the same ones I want, haha)

Seat time never hurts. What other cars have you tracked before or had a lot of seat time in?

 

[stuntman]

Post more in-car video.

I don't know if I already asked but what swaybars are you running F&R? And now you're at 11K/11K and planning on 9/9?

 

[RYU]

Looks like you need three then. (Just don't bid on the same ones I want, haha)

Seat time never hurts. What other cars have you tracked before or had a lot of seat time in?

I stumbled upon my 2nd NSX by accident. I can't keep them both. It's just not feasible... and to say there's a massive overlap in usefulness is a total understatement. Your search is safe and good luck! Post questions if you have them prior to purchase. We'll try to answer. Btw... you're in Socal. PM me your email and i'll add you to the Socal NSX Facebook and the Socal NSX Track FB pages. It's a lot more active there if you're a Facebook'er.

Honestly, I have maybe a total of 20 track days over the last 10yrs. I had 2 in my S2000 before I sold it. I have a handful in my BRZ and the rest in the NSX. From the looks of things I might be spending more track days in the BRZ the 1st half of this year. Both cars are still fun as hell so I'm not complaining. I've always told people i'm a much better mechanic than I am a driver though so gaining that extra couple of seconds while still keeping at my personal 8/10ths comfort level will take a long long time I reckon!

Post more in-car video.

I don't know if I already asked but what swaybars are you running F&R? And now you're at 11K/11K and planning on 9/9?

I admit i'm a bit lazy with the videos. For one thing.. I just learned that they actually sell higher capacity batteries for the GoPro. Mine would last 10mins and die somewhere mid-session. It got so annoying I just forgot about it. Half the other times I forget to turn it on lol. I know this is the next step... will buy some extra batteries and post some videos.

My last 2:09~ was with 9k/11k spring with the Type R front bar and stock 96 rear bar on 215/265 Star Specs. The last time at BW (13CW) the conditions were a little faster and I was on 11k/11k with the Dali Track front bar (at the middle setting) and the Dali Street rear bar (at the softest setting) on 235/275 NT-05s - the car felt more stable but I was still stuck at 2:09. Admittedly I got my 1st 2:09 on the slower setup only after trying to follow Willem and Ryan - I'm sure that was good for a 1-2 sec improvement right there. I just got my Zanardi bar from Mark so i'll put that in and hopefully call it a day. Yes, i'd like to end up at 9k/9k. I like the street/track compromise at 9k for now I think.

 

[stuntman]

I admit i'm a bit lazy with the videos. For one thing.. I just learned that they actually sell higher capacity batteries for the GoPro. Mine would last 10mins and die somewhere mid-session. It got so annoying I just forgot about it. Half the other times I forget to turn it on lol. I know this is the next step... will buy some extra batteries and post some videos.

My last 2:09~ was with 9k/11k spring with the Type R front bar and stock 96 rear bar on 215/265 Star Specs. The last time at BW (13CW) the conditions were a little faster and I was on 11k/11k with the Dali Track front bar (at the middle setting) and the Dali Street rear bar (at the softest setting) on 235/275 NT-05s - the car felt more stable but I was still stuck at 2:09. Admittedly I got my 1st 2:09 on the slower setup only after trying to follow Willem and Ryan - I'm sure that was good for a 1-2 sec improvement right there. I just got my Zanardi bar from Mark so i'll put that in and hopefully call it a day. Yes, i'd like to end up at 9k/9k. I like the street/track compromise at 9k for now I think.

I still think you should do 11/9 -which is very close to NSX-R rates and that with your zanardi rear bar should give you a lot more stability and confidence. It'll be the softest rear setup youve ever had and I think you should keep hte 11 in the front.


0.02

 

[RYU]

I still think you should do 11/9 -which is very close to NSX-R rates and that with your zanardi rear bar should give you a lot more stability and confidence. It'll be the softest rear setup youve ever had and I think you should keep hte 11 in the front.


0.02

Will definitely give it a shot Billy. I wasn't a fan of the damping on the street with the 11k on the stock front DG5 dampers but if Feals does a successful job on the rebuild, a revalve is only $100 per damper. Money well spent!

I'm still a little hung up on why my car seems to understeer still so i've been hesitant to try to stiffen up the front even more. I had a friend of mine drive it and he mentioned the understeer tendency w/o me even hinting at it so maybe it isn't just my imagination? I wish I could have someone like yourself drive it and give me a 2nd opinion. Anyway, so i'm still chasing down that issue. Now that I have everything torn apart, it won't be any trouble to swap out the rears to the 9k at all. I did notice immediately that when switching to 11k and the stiffer sway bars in the front, the front outer suspension would dip less when into a turn and my rear inner wheel would lift less. That was a big boost in stability.

 

[Ponyboy]

The rest of the 4 secs I hope will come with some instruction from friends like Jim, illWillem, Ryan, and other drivers better than me. Seat time was my goal this year. Wasn't expecting my car to require so much maintenance so early on

Man, if possible, get as much seat time and experience with those guys as possible. As a reference, I picked up 3 seconds on a 1:32 lap after driving with a professional. The amount of confidence I gleaned was worth arranging it.

Billy, if you're ever in SoCal, could you help a brother out?

 

[stuntman]

Will definitely give it a shot Billy. I wasn't a fan of the damping on the street with the 11k on the stock front DG5 dampers but if Feals does a successful job on the rebuild, a revalve is only $100 per damper. Money well spent!

I'm still a little hung up on why my car seems to understeer still so i've been hesitant to try to stiffen up the front even more. I had a friend of mine drive it and he mentioned the understeer tendency w/o me even hinting at it so maybe it isn't just my imagination? I wish I could have someone like yourself drive it and give me a 2nd opinion. Anyway, so i'm still chasing down that issue. Now that I have everything torn apart, it won't be any trouble to swap out the rears to the 9k at all. I did notice immediately that when switching to 11k and the stiffer sway bars in the front, the front outer suspension would dip less when into a turn and my rear inner wheel would lift less. That was a big boost in stability.

If you posted video, I'd have a slightly better idea of whats going on!!!!

You didn't like the ride of the 11K in the FRONT or the REAR? (what was the harsh/bouncy/too stiff end of the car)?

What's your camber at?

What type of car does your buddy usually drive?

Man, if possible, get as much seat time and experience with those guys as possible. As a reference, I picked up 3 seconds on a 1:32 lap after driving with a professional. The amount of confidence I gleaned was worth arranging it.

Billy, if you're ever in SoCal, could you help a brother out?

I might have to come out for a track day and try to have you all there (william, ryan, etc...)

 

[angus]

So my car is going thru an unplanned overhaul of sorts right now. Its the typical...why not do it while you're in there situation. Double sigh...I decided to send my DG5s to Feals Suspension here locally for a rebuild. I also asked them to mildly revalve the rears to support a softer spring. My friends gave them generally good reviews but more importantly they're the only guys I could find who have the parts and know-how to rebuild the DG5. I'm crossing my fingers they don't screw this up. I really love these coilovers.

- - - Updated - - -

If they mess these up a factory DG5 rebuild from Japan will cost $300 each damper plus shipping.

I am super interested to find out how Feals does, I need to send a set of shocks for rebuild and considering them.

 

[RYU]

If you posted video, I'd have a slightly better idea of whats going on!!!!

You didn't like the ride of the 11K in the FRONT or the REAR? (what was the harsh/bouncy/too stiff end of the car)?

What's your camber at?

What type of car does your buddy usually drive?



I might have to come out for a track day and try to have you all there (william, ryan, etc...)

The 11K in the front. With the 9K I get that more "Cadillac" style damping when the dampers are set near to the softest setting. The compression and rebound was slower and more comfortable. The 11K wasn't that bad on the street but i'm hoping to get back the 9K street damping even if it means I give up some track performance. I'm trying to figure out how worth it is. Obviously, i'm still chasing these smaller setup issues. If the revalve goes well for the rear i'll do the 11k revalve for the front as you recommended.

In terms of the ride, it wasn't bouncy. It was marginally too harsh/too stiff. It was still better than say a set of lowering springs on Bilstein dampers (I have that setup on the other NSX). The DG5s are only 1-way adjustable whereby the bump/rebound are fixed into one knob adjustment. If they were 2-ways perhaps I could have dialed them in better with the 11K? I don't know..

My camber at this ride height is -2.3-2.4. It was the max we could get at Nick's.

My buddy Mike is usually finishes the podium at the local Time Attack events. He drives a S2k and a BRZ typically. He's helping MASIV test the radiators on both platforms. He was on the track the same day you did 1:58 in BW. He doesn't believe your car is stock because you came up to his rear view mirror FAST he said. HAHAHAHA!

I am super interested to find out how Feals does, I need to send a set of shocks for rebuild and considering them.

I will update with feedback here. I'm suppose to get them back next week but I don't have a track day planned until May. It will be a while

I guess they have a popular service to revalve the cheap Taiwanese shocks (BC Racing, Stance, Megan, etc...) to where the performance is improved specific for that car. They also actively race in on 2 wheels and 4 so they've got some decent credibility. I just really hope they don't screw up my damping. The DG5 probably has proprietary weight shock oil, pressures, seals, etc... Not sure how they're going to duplicate that. I have 30K plus miles on them and the knobs were starting to stick and getting difficult to turn. It was time for a rebuild.

 

[stuntman]

My car isn't quite stock. I have KW V3s, headers, an OSG diff and Japanese gears. With the softer rear bar 9/9 should be ok. BRZs and S2Ks are twitchier than an nsx and in an nsx you need to trailbrake more. If you drive an nsx where you park the car, and get on throttle as you start turning it will push more than an s2k

 

[RYU]

My car isn't quite stock. I have KW V3s, headers, an OSG diff and Japanese gears. With the softer rear bar 9/9 should be ok. BRZs and S2Ks are twitchier than an nsx and in an nsx you need to trailbrake more. If you drive an nsx where you park the car, and get on throttle as you start turning it will push more than an s2k

I think what you're describing is the understeer we might be feeling. I experience understeer most when on throttle. Neither Mike nor I are experts in how a normal NSX should feel. Having increased my negative camber up front from -1.5 to -2.3 has helped this a lot so now i'm just working on my throttle control and shifting weight slowly between the front of the car and the rear. The front understeers a lot less now than it did in 2010. I have a picture somewhere of the tire wear. The outer shoulders of a set of 235 NT-05s were visibly worn and the tread themselves showed a lot of sign of push. Can't find it at the moment but found another pic of that same day in SMMR.

 

[illwillem]

Id be curious to drive the car on a parade lap next time, or have you drive mine and see if you still feel it. The under steer in an NSX certainly feels different than an s2k. Sounds like forum speak, I know, but I know exactly what Billy is saying. I actually use it purposefully on sweeper at BW13. After settling the car and hugging the right side i start to give it constant steady increasing throttle as im tracking across track before the late apex into the esses. I can manage the resulting push easily and its a more comfortable way for me too carry the speed. its also better becasue i'm on throttle much earlier and smoother. Hey look, another reason for a ride along.

 

[stuntman]

The nsx is a great car. If you give it inputs to under steer it will under steer. If you give it inputs to oversteer it'll oversteer.

Don't try to neutralize the car for your under steering inputs because when you start to push the car harder your setup will be too loose.

 

[RYU]

I hope to be out with all of you guys on the track! It'll be a great time I'm sure.

Billy I hope to make the smmr event with you guys if Nick will have me.

 

[RYU]

Big thanks to phryxis for helping me get the headers coated. The SoCal NSX family is second to none.

They turned out nice. I choose the titanium color since I felt it wont look dirty too quickly.



Also here's a detailed pic of the clutch alteration kit.

 

[RYU]

I'm studying the install procedure on the OS Giken clutch. It occured to me to WPC the friction plates. Can anyone share any thoughts on this?

I know Billy/Nick, and a few other folks have experienced good success on doing this for the Diff components. Not sure how far to go on the clutch...

The friction plates i'm referring to are the plates separating the clutch discs.

- - - Updated - - -

For those looking to install this clutch. Here are some useful links I hope don't ever get taken down from the interwebs.

OSG clutch install procedure. Kind of simplistic but has all the information you need if you've got good common sense too.
Start on Page 5: http://osgiken.net/upload/d42.pdf

Tighten the pressure plate allen bolts (M6) to 13 lb-ft. The tightening sequence is very specific.
http://osgiken.net/upload/d31.pdf

Honda has specified the flywheel bolts be installed at a 76 lb-ft at a specific tightening sequence.
http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/info/acura-nsx-service_manual_91/4_engine_4_block.pdf

Also, i'm well aware this clutch will make noise when the clutch is depressed. Here's why that is. No, it's not broken haha!

Why do all OS Giken clutches make a noise when the clutch is disengaged?

All OS clutch kits utilize a free-floating pressure plate design. Most “traditional” clutch designs secure the pressure plate to the cover through the use of a pressure plate drive strap (aka “granny strap”). The advantage of having the granny strap is that clutch operation remains noiseless whether the clutch is engaged or disengaged. However, in many situations where the clutch is being abused (i.e. “spirited” driving and/or racing), the granny strap can become a weak point in the system and has a tendency to bend or break, potentially causing clutch failure and damage to drivetrain components. With the OS free-floating pressure plate design, pressure applied to the disks is even throughout the clutch lifespan, and the friction material of the metallic disks is bonded through a specialized process (as opposed to the cheaper riveted process used by most other competitors and OEM). This aids in increasing durability and lengthening the useful service life of an OS clutch, as power will continue to be transmitted effectively until the disks are extremely thin (since no rivets are present to create another weak point). Some race teams have gone through multiple seasons on an OS clutch before requiring a rebuild!


In regards to multi-plate clutch designs, all aftermarket manufacturers' multi-plate clutches will inherently emit a noise when the clutch is disengaged. This noise is emitted from the centerplate(s) vibrating against the cover posts. However, many competitors' clutches do not utilize the same strengthening processes during manufacturing as OS Giken, which will lead to increased material degradation over time. Because of this, the clutch noise will often become louder over time, as the centerplate(s) start to wear away and have more free-play within the housing. The OS design, coupled with the use of the most suitable materials and manufacturing processes, will minimize any system degradation and help to keep the clutch performing and sounding the same as when it was first installed. In fact, many OS Giken clutch users are proud to point out the signature noise emitted to anyone who asks, as it is a reminder that the car is equipped with one of the best performing and longest lasting clutches available

- - - Updated - - -

One last thing.. here is a translated instruction set on the Alteration Kit. Not available on the web.

View attachment Honda NSX NA1 C30A Alteration Kit Install Manual.pdf

- - - Updated - - -

Had a chance to install the Alteration Kit today. It converts from a pull to a push release movement. Check out this wacky contraption. It's actually pretty cool because I don't have to line up the fork. It all comes off as one unit since it's attached to the clutch. Should make future removal and install a tad easier. I'm not sure what other reasons they convert this.

Disclaimer: This is a JDM transmission with a JDM spec clutch. I have no idea if it mounts the same way on a USDM transmission but I have no reason to think they're different.

 

[illwillem]

Man seriously the WORST part is aligning splines followed a close second only by getting the shifter arm into the cup. It take a certain 'feel' that after a few hours under the car already you tend to lose. Very intresting thingymabob there. i'm curious too see how it works

 

[RYU]

In a strange way i'm looking forward to reinstalling this and NOT having to line up the fork. What's even more strange is that OSG recommends keeping the spline shaft bone dry or at the very least only put a thin spray oil (which I translated to mean WD-40 or silicone grease?). I'm still going to wipe on a very light film of Honda Urea Grease since their main concern was getting grease splatter on the clutch discs - something that can be avoided with minimal grease application.

BTW...Anyone have any thoughts on WPC'ing the clutch plates?

- - - Updated - - -

I have a "spray oil" my DG5s came with. It's an aerosol can they recommend to be generous with to keep the damper threads free from bind. Probably just a fancy WD40 which actually isn't a lubricant lol.

 

[GUNDAN323]

I saw that the OSG clutch kit is 11 lbs lighter than the oem. Did you get a chance to weigh just the OSG flywheel? I wonder how much lighter the OSG flywheel is compared to the oem flywheel.

 

[RYU]

Got the Clutch friction plates back from WPC. Izumi is quite a nice guy. He said the WPC treatment helps engagement and reduces warping. I find it odd that the flywheel surface does not need to be treated so that all the friction surfaces are equally as slippery. My local acura dealer didn't have a flywheel pilot bearing so its going to be at least another week on jack stands.

Dan, haven't formally weighed the flywheel yet but it feels heavier than stock...though the pressure plate and midplate assembly on the stock overall weighs a lot more.

 

[Ponyboy]

RYU, do you have list of parts that you've had treated via WPC?

Interested in your thoughts on effectiveness so far.

 

[RYU]

RYU, do you have list of parts that you've had treated via WPC?Interested in your thoughts on effectiveness so far.

I was a WPC virgin prior. L_Rao is your man. Billy can possibly chime in.It gets to a point where you will want to WPC everything and costs get prohibitive.