Something I read

[Hothonda]

Well written Vance....!

Steve W
Seattle
'05 Grand Prix White

 

[Zanardi 50]

.......Mr. Uehera would have been happy with the performance result of the HSC - if it was going to be built two years ago, but it was a good thing that they didn't, because the result would have ended like the original NSX, which will not fare well with the current competitors, and a V6 will not be welcome by the “press.” The introduction of the F430 proved his point. “The boss scrapped the HSC because he wanted more! Because it wasn't “stunning enough. The Original NSX was intended to compete with Porsche 911, Ferrari 328/348. However, after 15 years, 911 have surpassed the NSX in many areas, and Ferrari F430 is truly ahead of the NSX in almost every way; therefore, it's time to reset the standard.”...............N/A Porsche 911 is no longer a targeted competitor, because the auto press has always prejudiced the V6 in the NSX, but somehow never bash 911's flat 6! F430 and Gallardo will be the main target, and perhaps those higher models such as Porsche GT and McLaren MB SLR Vision, because if you think about it, the performance between the F430 and SLR Vision is not too far apart, other than the top speed. “In order to compete with these cars, the HP rating will have to be over 500, and we have enough times to work out the bugs on the V10.” By the time the Neo NSX is ready for production, 500ps will be common between most of the manufactures.....................Uehera jokingly mentioned, “If the next generation NSX should last another 15 years production cycle. The car has to be a technological wonder; however, still allows major upgrades in order to compete with the future replacement of F430 and Gallardo.” ............ During the design process of the original NSX, exotics such as 328/348 and 911 all had “3 liter class” engines, because it was the standard in an Exotic (small block with high PS rating); however, the approach has changed through time. The only way to get more PS is to build bigger engines. Ferrari for example, redesigned the entire chassis on the 308/328 replacements to allowed bigger engines to be fitted. From 348 and on, the reversal of trunk and radiator location was the evident of this new approach. This method also shifted the weight distribution more to the rear. Unfortunately, the NSX was originally designed to meet the “3 liter class as well as the gentleman's rule of 280ps for the domestic market; also under the consideration was the domestic market taxation on engine size greater than 3.0 liter, which was much higher; those rules set gave the design team the base blueprint for the NA1 NSX.” It was a conservative move but left no room for expansion. However, the original package was ideal in a sense of performance during that time period, and the method of Carbon Reinforced Metal liner allowed us to temporary step up in the HP game............Since a “Large” V10 is the desired power plant, in order to offset the weight of the engine, construction Materials such as Aluminum and CF is a must - If the desire target weight is going to be met; the use of titanium is under consideration. It will help to meet the promised word of “break through.” However, the cost of manufacturing of titanium will be a major issue, because it is extremely difficult to work with. Even though the cost is not quite an issue, we will make a logical decision. “Same thing happen when we wanted an all aluminum chassis, and the cost of the manufacturing was enormous, but we did it anyway. We are considering how to implement titanium parts other than just the connecting rod.” ...............As for the SH-AWD, it is under consideration, but most likely be scrap due to the weight gain, and Mr. Uehera favors MR platform only - But may offer SH-AWD as an option if the market desires it..................As for the cost for the car - Honda will strategically place the car in the proper tier, just like the original NSX, little higher than standard 911, but lower than a Ferrari. Here is my interpretation from reading the article, a Ferrari F430 and Gallardo beater at Porsche Turbo price. After all, Honda does hope to sell more “New” NSX than the out going model - at a shorter time frame. However, they cannot predict the future, so we'll have to wait and see if the world economy can support this car, or any other car in this price tier…. The original approach of 25 cars a day and 6000 per year will not be part of the plan, because the goal wasn't realistic. After all, the purpose for the existence of NSX is not to make money, but to showcase what Honda can do. NSX is matter of company Pride - R&D cost will eventually filter down to other production cars....

I wondered if this
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51637

and this

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51608

had a big impact in Honda's decision-making process?

 

[BD]

Zanardi 50 posted the link of this discussion on the S2k Forum, so as usual, some kids were talking shit. I just want to share with you guys what I felt and left on the forum.


Hello, I'm the guy who translated the article on the next NSX, and I'll find a scanner so I can at lease show you guys some sample page of the article.

As for the post above... check out my car buying evolution:

86 Integra LS - Given to me by my parents when in HS
89 Prelude Si - Given when in College
88 Legend Cp L - Bought it used after trading the Integra
95 Integra GSR - Bought it new after trade in my Legend
91 Legend Cp L - Bought it as my second car after bought a the Integra
97 Prelude - traded both Intergra and legend cp for it
98 Prelude - wanted the new color
01 S2k - Traded my 98 Prelude after 130k miles on it
95 NSX - Sold my S2k and bought the NSX used
05 Civic Si - Bought new for my business
03 NSX - Bought almost new with 3600 miles and 100K Honda care warrantee, after consolidated both payments from the Civic Si and 95 NSX.

As you can see, I always found ways to drive the car I want, and the NSX was my goal from 15 years ago, and I finally got one in the condition I wanted.

Or course people's buying pattern will be different, based on financial situation; however, I'm sure people will buy what ever they see fit. Honda owners will upgrade even if the replacement is not a Honda, I know many NSX drivers who switch to Ferrari, or MB AMG because Honda don't make a car in that class.

For those soon to out grow S2ks guys will most likely reject a "new NSX" even if it is still in production, because the price jump is way too high. They usually fit them selves into cars like entry level Porsche, Elise or something similar, unless a used NSX is on their mind.

A top of the line 1990 Honda Accord sold for around 15 grand, and a top of the line 2005 Accord sold for almost double that price. People still snatch them up. The original NSX sold for 60 grand, so I wouldn't be surprise the new replacement will be on sale for 120 grand. Of course the current Accord is a much better car than its 1990 predecessor, and I'm sure the next NSX will be twice the car of the out going model.

For being a world power in auto racing and engine technology, it's natural that they will built a car that is on part with their racing activity as well as competing with the production cars from their racing competitors. In my personal opinion, Honda can careless about Porsche, Corvette as their real competition, because they are not in the same league - they don't race in F1 and Indy (Highest level of auto racing in both Europe and America). No one can touch Porsche 911's market, just no one can really touch Honda's ricer and mid class sedan market, many will tap into it, but few will succeed. Life goes on whether the new NSX will sell, but it will be there just because they feel like to have it on the market. How many people paid over 50 grand over sticker on a Ford GT, or a million for a F40 back in the 80's, those suckers lost tones of money just after few years of ownership. Another example: A Ferrari 360 spider sold for 250 grand new, and they go for 150 grand just after 3 years used, but people still forking another 250 grand plus to upgrade to the F430. If Honda can just sell 10 thousand new NSX in 3 to 4 years, it will be a success story. In fact, NSX is very much a success story, the total number sold is higher than Ferrari 348 and F355 combine. As for the potential buys, well, do you know how many people in the metropolitan cities who have own properties for over ten years that have plenty of cash to spare from the increase in property's equity? Do you kids know how much money your parents have in their assets? Do you know why most of the Exotic owners are 40 plus years old? How often do you see a awesome Exotic sports car cruise around the beach going only 35 miles an hour, because people buy those cars can careless about driving fast, but enjoying the fact that they own a piece of auto history.

Honda will not make the new NSX for the ricers, but for those who can afford it. Most of you high school, young working adults, and college kids, or Viper/Corvette lovers will not be able to comprehend that. All you have to do is go down the cost of Southern California, you will see almost nothing but 911's, M3/5, AMG E/S/SL/C55. The new NSX will sell if Honda can make the new attractive enough, out performing cars such as F430, Ford GT, etc. for around 120-150 grand, because people will buy it. The original NSX was considered as a nerd car, why not make the next one even nerdier, after all, those are the guys who will be able to afford one.

Guess what? It's good to express your opinion, but make sure you're not out there to make an @$$ out of your self. I see bunch of Honda haters just want to stir things up on S2k/NSX Forums, please show some manner so the legit members of these forums can actually have some intellectual conversations/posts. If you are Corvette/Viper lovers who also enjoy legit chats with Honda owners, of course you are welcome to exchange “intelligent” thoughts.

Hahaha…..

I'm sure I have offended some people, but guess what, Honda didn't care about what people were saying when they built the NSX, all they know is an automotive history was made, and only the significant players such as Porsche and Ferrari will react to their creation. It's the satisfaction of knowing who made the best car that count, not how many sold.

 

[WealthBuildR]

I'm sure I have offended some people, but guess what, Honda didn't care about what people were saying when they built the NSX, all they know is an automotive history was made, and only the significant players such as Porsche and Ferrari will react to their creation. It's the satisfaction of knowing who made the best car that count, not how many sold.

Great point Vance. Its the passion put into creating the car that makes it great, not the profit margin or volume sold. Also, in regards to the article, I testify to its accuracy, and actually looked through it . I really thank Vance for taking the time to translate about 10 pages of complicated Japanese scipt into english just so us nsx enthusiasts can have more foresight, into the creation of the successor.

 

[effer]

I see bunch of Honda haters just want to stir things up on S2k/NSX Forums, please show some manner so the legit members of these forums can actually have some intellectual conversations/posts. If you are Corvette/Viper lovers who also enjoy legit chats with Honda owners, of course you are welcome to exchange “intelligent” thoughts.

Everything is in attitude.

That makes me think about the idea of creating in this Forum specific icons:

one for members actually owning an NSX ( it could be a mini NSX icon )
one for those who had an NSX, ( it could be a shaded mini NSX icon )
one for those real NSX enthousiast having NSX driving experience ( why am I thinking of Neo? :smile: )

and so on... :smile:

I'm sure I have offended some people, but guess what, Honda didn't care about what people were saying when they built the NSX, all they know is an automotive history was made, and only the significant players such as Porsche and Ferrari will react to their creation. It's the satisfaction of knowing who made the best car that count, not how many sold.

For you Vance, as I read somewhere at the attention of the intelligent person: :smile:

"Never talk with stupid people because it instructs them."

 

[Doc C]

Vance,

Thanks so much for sharing the article. With your ability to translate, you would be a great asset to these forums. Keep the info coming!!! :smile:

Doc C

 

[drmanny3]

Aside from all the discussions that have followed the translation, I have to say thank you for your efforts. As I read your translation I was totally mesmerized and excited. Some two years ago I had the distinct pleasure of meeting Mr. Shigeru Uehara when he visited my home along with a number of his engineers. I can just imagine him saying some of the things you mention in your write up. It really gives me hope that they (Honda) will come out with a new car. I almost felt tears of joy as the performance expectations were described. I am saving my money for this new car.

Again Thanks,

Manny

 

[Vitellius]

I have to agree with you on the reliablility of the Domestic V10's, but guess what? They are OHV, low out put engine, not high output DOHC engine.

You are completely wrong here. I’m not saying this, the SAE Internal Combustion Engine text book in front of me says you’re wrong.

Valve configuration ie. OHV or OHC have absolutely nothing to do with the balance of an engine and neither does its power output.

Balance is a function of two things and two things alone: configuration (number of cylinders, firing order, V-angle…) and RPM’s. NOT power output or what type of valve train it uses (cam, timing etc. are not mentioned for obvious reasons).

BTW the Ford V10 is question is over head cam, not over head valve like the Viper V10.


If you are still not convinced your beliefs are incorrect, I will be more than happy to scan these pages from my SAE text book and post them for you.

Unfortunately, people like to argue, and I'm up for that, but please get the fact straight. Every auto engineers on this planet knows about the challenge regarding issues with DOHC V10, that is why no mass produced DOHC V10 were selected for production car untill Gallardo.

Are you actually an automotive engineer? If you truly are than I suggest you go back to school.

What Uehera said in the interview only confirmed what I heard back in 1988, when Honda introduced the prototype V10 F1 Engine, both Renult and Honda express the concern of amount of vibration the engine have created during developement process.

You are misunderstanding the relevancy. This example is simply not applicable at all. You cannot compare F1 engines to production engines.

An F1 is engineered to only last for one race. This is necessary because engineers specifically aim to minimize the weight in the rotating assembly in order to maximize RPM’s available to develop the most power possible.

Since these engines are designed to operate on the very edge of failure, vibration is a VERY critical concern particularly at the incredible RPM’s they operate at.

As for the reliablity of the Gallardo and BMW, I haven't seen one with that kind of miles on it, so the concern by Uehera was most likely from engineering point of view.

They’re actually quite smooth, relatively speaking of course.

For example the on-centre Buick V6’s from the 1970’s operated with much more vibration and you can still find strong running examples with 150 000 miles plus.

I don’t at all believe that Uehera actually said this, he was obviously misquoted by the interviewer.

THERE IS A GOOD REASON WHY HONDA , BMW, AUDI, AND ANY OTHER NONE US AUTO MANUFACTURES WOULDN'T BUILD OHV ENGINES.... I do however, hope that GM, Ford, Dodge can built car with 8 OHV plus liter and only 550 hp will last... at least 100k miles... Do you really own a NSX?

Can you rephrase that, you’re not being very clear.

Well, nice try, I challenge you to toss me more of your skeptism and your uneducated BS. I'm sure they will be off the subject like your last post! ? Obviously your OHV V10 Engines was doing the thinking for you... hahaha. .

The problem is that you read an obviously very factually flawed article and assume it’s completely factual.

This would not be the first time I’ve seen an article where a journalist with no engineering degree conducts an interview with an engineer, understands only perhaps 10% of what was said, and then proceeds to summarize the 2-hour interview into an article only few paragraph long with disastrous results.

By the way, what does a boat engine have to do with anything .

It’s a virtually stock Viper V10.

Just to let you know, it took me 4 hours to translate the article, and I was quite confident with the accuracy before I posted it .

Your translation was fine, but the competence of the writer is surely in question since it’s full of blatantly factually incorrect content.

 

[White92]

So you're saying you disagree?

You are completely wrong here. I’m not saying this, the SAE Internal Combustion Engine text book in front of me says you’re wrong.

Valve configuration ie. OHV or OHC have absolutely nothing to do with the balance of an engine and neither does its power output.

Balance is a function of two things and two things alone: configuration (number of cylinders, firing order, V-angle…) and RPM’s. NOT power output or what type of valve train it uses (cam, timing etc. are not mentioned for obvious reasons).

BTW the Ford V10 is question is over head cam, not over head valve like the Viper V10.


If you are still not convinced your beliefs are incorrect, I will be more than happy to scan these pages from my SAE text book and post them for you.



Are you actually an automotive engineer? If you truly are than I suggest you go back to school.



You are misunderstanding the relevancy. This example is simply not applicable at all. You cannot compare F1 engines to production engines.

An F1 is engineered to only last for one race. This is necessary because engineers specifically aim to minimize the weight in the rotating assembly in order to maximize RPM’s available to develop the most power possible.

Since these engines are designed to operate on the very edge of failure, vibration is a VERY critical concern particularly at the incredible RPM’s they operate at.



They’re actually quite smooth, relatively speaking of course.

For example the on-centre Buick V6’s from the 1970’s operated with much more vibration and you can still find strong running examples with 150 000 miles plus.

I don’t at all believe that Uehera actually said this, he was obviously misquoted by the interviewer.



Can you rephrase that, you’re not being very clear.



The problem is that you read an obviously very factually flawed article and assume it’s completely factual.

This would not be the first time I’ve seen an article where a journalist with no engineering degree conducts an interview with an engineer, understand perhaps 10% of what was said, and then proceeds to summarize a 2-hour interview into only an article few paragraph with disastrous results.



It’s a virtually stock Viper V10.



Your translation was fine, but the competence of the writer is surely in question since it’s full of blatantly factually incorrect content.

 

[Vitellius]

So you're saying you disagree?

LOL, so does the SAE

 

[effer]

Hi Vitellius, so we have the chance to exchange with an engineer ( perhaps automotive engineer ? )

If so what do you think about creating a V8 based on two S2K engine?

What do you think also about quasi turbine engine?

Regards,

Effer

 

[BD]

You guys, I'm having my employees scan some of the pages since I don't have a scanner. The main article is based on an insert; however, there were other section out side the insert in the magazine contained information on the NSX. I asked him to scan the last few pages so you guys can at least get a taste of the article. I also have dial up (yeah yeah, I'm a dinosor), it will probably take a lot of time to up load just few pages of Jpgs. So be patient. William stop by my shop the other day and check out the insert, so he can at least validate the existance of the article.

This is my first experience with any forum, so I didn't expect to see all the skepticism, perhaps I was over my head trying to defend this post, and I guess it's normal. I'm a regular shopper of Japanese car magazines, I usually pick them up after I flip through them, but the way this insert was located within the magazine, I probably never discover this article while shopping for a the new magazine. The discovery was pure luck, if I never stop by the Japanese resturant and had to wait for my take out for 15 minutes. If any of you have additional skepticism, well, feel free to express it, it will not offend me. What matters is that I shared it. Everything translated in the article was translated to best of my knowledge, and Uehera was the interviewee. As for Vietllious' comment about "factual" or not, well, please correct it the translation after the jpg is up. I'm sure if you can read Japanese, you can correct any of the mis-translation for me.

I'm sure the finish product will never be the same as the one from the developement stage described in the article. None the less, I do hope this new replacement is going to be a monster car, same or similar to the descrition in this article. If this concept solidified, I wouldn't have to buy a Ferrari...lol

Again, I should have some of the pages scanned in couple of days.

Let me rest in peace

Vance

 

[NsXMas]

No skepticism here. Great job on the translation!

Your English is near perfect. It's a lot better than some native English speakers.


Thanks for the info. Can't wait to get more insight into the new NSX.

 

[Vitellius]

Hi Vitellius, so we have the chance to exchange with an engineer ( perhaps automotive engineer ? )

If so what do you think about creating a V8 based on two S2K engine?

What do you think also about quasi turbine engine?

Regards,

Effer

No I'm not an engineer, not yet at least, in 2 years I'll have a nuclear engineering degree. I just pick up text books for other non-related engineering courses that I'm also interested in to read on my own time.

I recall reading an interview with the actual Honda CEO where he actually said that they intent to produce a V8 (I think he said S2000 based) and a V10 as well. Though he was mum on what these two engine would go into.

 

[Vitellius]

You guys, I'm having my employees scan some of the pages since I don't have a scanner. The main article is based on an insert; however, there were other section out side the insert in the magazine contained information on the NSX. I asked him to scan the last few pages so you guys can at least get a taste of the article. I also have dial up (yeah yeah, I'm a dinosor), it will probably take a lot of time to up load just few pages of Jpgs. So be patient. William stop by my shop the other day and check out the insert, so he can at least validate the existance of the article.

I was not doubting if you did in fact read it or your translation.

I did however say that the article was written by some one who clearly has no idea what he was talking about. And as I said before, it would not be the first time a journalist has written a factually flawed article because he did not understand the topic.

For example, the point about engine balance having anything to with power output or valve train is simply not true at all.

I would also like to point out that in contrast with the Viper V10, the Gallardo V10 uses a central balance shaft located in the block in addition to split 18 degree crank pins which combine to make it more balanced than the Viper V10; and you can find 100 000 mile Viper V10’s. The point about the Gallardo V10 needing frequent rebuilds is ridiculous.

 

[BD]

No I'm not an engineer, not yet at least, in 2 years I'll have a nuclear engineering degree. I just pick up text books for other non-related engineering courses that I'm also interested in to read on my own time.

I recall reading an interview with the actual Honda CEO where he actually said that they intent to produce a V8 (I think he said S2000 based) and a V10 as well. Though he was mum on what these two engine would go into.

Here is an interesting thought... and after owning a 01 S2k, I believe the story. The N American market is the only place with 2.2 S2k, rest of the world is still on 2.0. I thought in Japan, they would have made it an option to have the 2.2, but they didn't. A friend who is high up in US Nissan NISMO marketing told me that the reason S2k's engine increased in size with lower RPM was due to the abuse by many owners (mod and driving habbit), and Honda was paying a lot for warrentee related repair. The bigger engine with 8g rpm is much more reliable than the old 9g rpm. When I had my S2k, I left everything stock, and I drove it to 9g rpm quite often. Honda had to rebuilt the transmission for me (I believe there was a "update" on that, my old car wouldn't shift into fifth gear), and they also had to replace the lower block. The repair cost Honda over 6 grand. I know couple of friends who bought pre-01 S2ks, they had the same transmission "updated" by Honda, and their repari bills were over 3 grand each. I wonder if anyone had the engine problem I had...


Vance

 

[Spinner]

Here is an interesting thought... and after owning a 01 S2k, I believe the story. The N American market is the only place with 2.2 S2k, rest of the world is still on 2.0. I thought in Japan, they would have made it an option to have the 2.2, but they didn't. A friend who is high up in US Nissan NISMO marketing told me that the reason S2k's engine increased in size with lower RPM was due to the abuse by many owners (mod and driving habbit), and Honda was paying a lot for warrentee related repair. The bigger engine with 8g rpm is much more reliable than the old 9g rpm. When I had my S2k, I left everything stock, and I drove it to 9g rpm quite often. Honda had to rebuilt the transmission for me (I believe there was a "update" on that, my old car wouldn't shift into fifth gear), and they also had to replace the lower block. The repair cost Honda over 6 grand. I know couple of friends who bought pre-01 S2ks, they had the same transmission "updated" by Honda, and their repari bills were over 3 grand each. I wonder if anyone had the engine problem I had...


Vance

From what I heard, the rest of the world will now get the 2.2 liter motor...well atleast the Japanese S2k.

 

[BD]

From what I heard, the rest of the world will now get the 2.2 liter motor...well atleast the Japanese S2k.

I just check out Honda.co.jp, and Honda.co.uk, they still have the 2.0

Vance

 

[Spinner]

I just check out Honda.co.jp, and Honda.co.uk, they still have the 2.0

Vance

I think its for next year. Hang on, let me find the link.

 

[Spinner]

Here ya go. Since your good at translating, is it just talking about the ap2 motor, or are they planning on releasing world wide? BTW, just got it off the s2k forums so...don't shoot the messanger

http://www.honda.co.jp/motorshow/auto/s2000/concept/index.html

 

[BD]

　主 要 装 備 （（※数値はHonda測定値　*ネット値）

■ 全長×全幅×全高(mm)：4,135×1,750×1,285
■ ホイールベース(mm)：2,400
■ 総排気量（cm3）：2,156
■ 最高出力(kW［PS］/rpm)：178［242］/7,800*
■ 最大トルク（N・m［Kg・m］/rpm)：221［22.5］/6,500～7,500*
■ 内径×行程(mm)：87.0×90.7
■ 圧縮比：11.1


Got it, the PS rating is down from 250 to 242. Intereting. Wondering how the JDM is going to react to that.

Vance

 

[Ponyboy]

Whew, reading the first post got me psyched!

 

[Tom Larkins]

While these are the most positive things I've heard and real substance on the surface the clock is still ticking and everytime Mr. Uehera speaks I still get a glass half full and things I didn't need to hear .

"I'm glad we didn't build the HSC, b/c it would be outdated by now". and this comment is great " after 15 years the NSX has been surpassed by the 911 and the 430"....hello, McFly....anyone home!!!

These comments are priceless. Most of us recognized before you and when we saw the concept car, now your gonna build something that makes impression, based on what your lack of being pro-active in the market and understanding what we want. Don't get me wrong, I want a 2800lb 500hp 10000rpm car the runs like a scalded cat but these guys are still behind, mean while even GM w/the Z06 has raised the bar and wait for the GT3 and TT to hit next year. Mean while back in fantisy land, they still talk the talk but they won't even walk when eveeryone else is up and running.....

 

[Patdeisa]

Hi Vitellius, so we have the chance to exchange with an engineer ( perhaps automotive engineer ? )

If so what do you think about creating a V8 based on two S2K engine?

What do you think also about quasi turbine engine?

Regards,

Effer

From what I've read, the S2k engine (F20C) is a bridge between the regular vtec engines and i-vtec engines. Why base a new engine on a non-mod friendly engine when the K20 series (RSX) is easier to mod and more gas friendly. Right now, NA RSX's are limited in power due to engine bay restraints (mainly intake manifold that won't let them breathe well above 8k rpms) and a legal header (cat is too far forward to provide room for a good header), however people are getting 230+ whp (approximately 270 bhp) with mild to medium mods (cam, tuned ECU, intake, exhaust, race header). The K20A2 is a square block like the F20C, and has been known to take 9k rpms stock. These engines are producing sub 6 second 0-60 and mid 13 second 1/4 mile times on a FWD vehicle. I think a V8 that combines two K20s could make 500 hp reliably with room for NA mods.

 

[BD]

After my employee failed to scan the documents for me, I ran to Kinkos, spend 20 bucks and had them scanned. I posted 5 of the 16 pages on the openning thread, and Prime only allow 5 uploads per thread, I think it will be enough for you guys to sample this Article. I got high resolution PDF of all 16 pages if you like to get hold of them, just PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send it to you (your e-mail provider needs to allow 3.5 mb for file size). I'm sorry about the low resolution PDF posted above, I couldn't up load the high resolution PDF because the files were too large. Enjoy.

Vance