I just picked up a nsx-r here in japan and it has tein flex coilovers on it and seen in good shape. Just wanted to here some input from you track guys how you set your car up. Im coming from a R32gtr thats FR to the MR nsx and i have 0 experiance with setting up a MR suspension. The Flex coilovers are a 10kg front and 12kg rear so im lost. FR cars have stiffer springs up front because the engines there so im assuming since the engine is behind the driver thats why they use stiffer springs in the rear. Anyways please give me your input and experiance because this car has mostly been a garage queen and i want to use it on the track a little so i want to get the set up right so i dont go spinning into a wall at fuji speedway. Thanks
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Suspension set up for road racing and track.
- Thread starter nismor32gtr
- Start date
If you can get the nsx r suspension from the previous owner that'd probably be a safe bet. Otherwise a good choice I hear are the kw v3 coilovers.
If you read through many of our track and susp related threads..you will see some common themes.The most basic is that from a hpde standpoint we like a neutral car.This allows you to adjust balance with driving technique via the pedals and tire pressures .To do this based on optimal wheel rates related to the susp geometry of the car the front needs to be stiffer than the rear,including spring rates and bars.We in america believe the jdm aftermarket likes higher rear rates because they enjoy an over-steering car more,this is why your wonderful oem R susp may have been changed by the previous owner.So in your case I would reverse your spring rates.
hmmmmm i see. Well the gtr was oversteer happy also and i used to that so mabe i would like it more that way. I guess i can take it to the local speedway and test it out and see how i like it first. Yeah the old suspension is gone. And a NA2 nsx-r suspension would cost as much as some ohlins flag-r coilovers because they are not a second hand part.
cant believe no one has asked, you picked up an 'R' model what year etc. etc.
I had the NA2 NSX-R dampers and they were incredible. Honda knew what they were doing. Go with that if you can find them especially since you have a Type R.
It's a 2002 the owner before went a different route then most and painted it orange and added the wide body gt body kit as well as some other parts. It's the first Nsx-r I've ever seen that's not stock white. So obviously I had to have it lol.
Take it to the track and try to make it comfortable and neutral with the adjustments you can do (damping, sway bars, tire pressure, ...). Spring rate is just theory. My NSX is very neutral with 10/12 springs.
Anyway, if you gain experience on track with your NSX and you want more, go with KW (V3 or even Clubsport) which are far better than the Tein.
Anyway, if you gain experience on track with your NSX and you want more, go with KW (V3 or even Clubsport) which are far better than the Tein.
- Joined
- 19 January 2011
- Messages
- 714
Bit of a warning, when I bought and started modding my NSX for the track I was delivered on accident the wrong size sways than i ordered. long story short I unintentionally ended up driving a rear biased NSX for 2 years of HEAVY tracking. I ended up running weird pressures, rake and having the suspension rebuilt etc etc but never thought to measure the rear bar size, after a while I just though thats how the car behaved and learned to drive around it.
Coming from RWD and drifting myself I too was used to a somewhat loose car. I found out pretty quickly that tail happy MR was not apples to apples with what i was used too. There was a MUCH finer point to it depending on speed and you can really feel the weight in the rear, It took a lot of concentration to keep it balanced between the front tires and drive fast. If a slip angle felt good, it generally meant I was pretty close to losing the rear, especially on R-comps. I also notice a lot of steering 'noise' in long sweepers when i see a video of myself. I think it made me a better driver but im glad the car doesn't behave like that anymore. All that being said I did still manage some very quick times on some of the tighter more technical tracks in the area but was a LOT slower than I am now on the bigger faster tracks after i figured out what was going on.
you can see what im talking about here:
<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Fnro2kQnb3Q" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="720" width="1280"></iframe>
Once I identified the problem the NSX feel like a new car. the limits are incredible when they are set up and they are EXTREMELY neutral. I can choose between oversteer or understeer on the set up in corner entry, its fantastic. I have 11k front and 9k rear swifts on KW v3's with a trophy bar on front and zanardi in the rear, -3.5 camber up front, max caster and -2.3 out back 0 toe .
When I was figuring out the motion ratios for my tires i spoke to a lot of people and understood that even if the static weight balance is rear biased you still want a neutral car under braking when the majority of the weight shifts forward. Conversely at corner exit you want some suspension travel on corner exit when the weight shifts back. I bought a bunch of spring kg's to test and really like the 11k/9k set up on stock valving kw's.
i hear the type R suspension is awesome out of the box. I say just go drive it and take it slow at first, you'll figure what your comfortable with.
Coming from RWD and drifting myself I too was used to a somewhat loose car. I found out pretty quickly that tail happy MR was not apples to apples with what i was used too. There was a MUCH finer point to it depending on speed and you can really feel the weight in the rear, It took a lot of concentration to keep it balanced between the front tires and drive fast. If a slip angle felt good, it generally meant I was pretty close to losing the rear, especially on R-comps. I also notice a lot of steering 'noise' in long sweepers when i see a video of myself. I think it made me a better driver but im glad the car doesn't behave like that anymore. All that being said I did still manage some very quick times on some of the tighter more technical tracks in the area but was a LOT slower than I am now on the bigger faster tracks after i figured out what was going on.
you can see what im talking about here:
<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Fnro2kQnb3Q" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="720" width="1280"></iframe>
Once I identified the problem the NSX feel like a new car. the limits are incredible when they are set up and they are EXTREMELY neutral. I can choose between oversteer or understeer on the set up in corner entry, its fantastic. I have 11k front and 9k rear swifts on KW v3's with a trophy bar on front and zanardi in the rear, -3.5 camber up front, max caster and -2.3 out back 0 toe .
When I was figuring out the motion ratios for my tires i spoke to a lot of people and understood that even if the static weight balance is rear biased you still want a neutral car under braking when the majority of the weight shifts forward. Conversely at corner exit you want some suspension travel on corner exit when the weight shifts back. I bought a bunch of spring kg's to test and really like the 11k/9k set up on stock valving kw's.
i hear the type R suspension is awesome out of the box. I say just go drive it and take it slow at first, you'll figure what your comfortable with.
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Sounds good. I don't know what the NA2 stock sway bars are so I'll try it out as it is with some adjustment
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What motion ratios did you come up with/how did you measure them?
- Joined
- 19 January 2011
- Messages
- 714
Its been a while, ill try and find the notes I took specifically.
rough and dirty from what I could remember:
Theres a great number of white papers, and the formulas are pretty straight forward (for the family engineers, that is)
heres a couple I have faved here at work.
.. :http://www.worksevo.com/technical.php
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2566270
you can pull the majority of the angle data from the FSM frame measurement section (plus more for my offset bushings)
I weighed all the suspension arms, brakes hubs and wheel components, minus the compliance uprights when they were all off the car during my year long down time I also had the my final overall weight and cross weights logged from when I got corner balanced.
I was able to find online some of honda's factory data and IIRC arrived at something like 1.9Hz for the type R
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There was a bit of black magic involved, that i didn't and don't understand. There's sort of a detachment point in these mathematical exercises where we didn't have the exact data and would have to loop back and find data where we could to confirm we were at least in the ballpark. My brother is in engineering student and does formula SAE, my pops had some suspension engineering in the past and has a double master in aeronautical engineering from MIT, i was pretty much just nodding along at a lot of it.
When all the hard work was done i basically had a good place to start. That's when *I* did what i do best; spent money. I bought a few pairs of swift springs up the scale of target and decided id see what i like the best. I did drive with a 10/kg/10kg but didn't really get many laps in that day. I swapped for the 11k/9k when i got the new tires and it feels like a positive improvement. I'm at the stock valving maxes now so probably wont go up any unless i re-valve. I don't really see the need too since im pretty happy with the set up. I haven't even really started to adjust the compression and rebound settings or dial in rake.
Hell, just getting new tires and figuring out dali sent me the wrong size bar didn't hurt either. As an enthusiast im not really concerned, just interested. Id strap a rubber chicken to my wing if i felt like it was helping me. :]
rough and dirty from what I could remember:
Theres a great number of white papers, and the formulas are pretty straight forward (for the family engineers, that is)
heres a couple I have faved here at work.
.. :http://www.worksevo.com/technical.php
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2566270
you can pull the majority of the angle data from the FSM frame measurement section (plus more for my offset bushings)
I weighed all the suspension arms, brakes hubs and wheel components, minus the compliance uprights when they were all off the car during my year long down time I also had the my final overall weight and cross weights logged from when I got corner balanced.
I was able to find online some of honda's factory data and IIRC arrived at something like 1.9Hz for the type R
| NSX coupe | NA2 NSX-R | change | ||
| spring rate | F | 34.3 N/mm | 102.0 N/mm | +67.7 N/mm |
| R | 39.2 N/mm | 81.4 N/mm | +42.2 N/mm | |
| damper compression | F | 1069 N | 2040 N | +971 N |
| (force at 0.3 m/sec) | R | 1226 | 2393 N | +1167 N |
| damper rebound | F | 1128 N | 3148 N | +2020 N |
| (force at 0.3 m/sec) | R | 1795 N | 3315 N | +1520 N |
| stabilizer bars | F | 22.2 mm | +3.9mm | |
| R | 17.5 mm | no change | ||
| notes: 1. data courtesy of Honda Motor Co., Ltd. 2. spring rate conversion: 1 lbF/in = 5.714 N/mm 1 kg/mm = 56.0 lbF/in |
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| Once I figured out the wheel rates and the sprung weight i added the non-static load of the aero for cambered and non camber surfaces using a formula of sq inches that my dad wrote for me. |
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There was a bit of black magic involved, that i didn't and don't understand. There's sort of a detachment point in these mathematical exercises where we didn't have the exact data and would have to loop back and find data where we could to confirm we were at least in the ballpark. My brother is in engineering student and does formula SAE, my pops had some suspension engineering in the past and has a double master in aeronautical engineering from MIT, i was pretty much just nodding along at a lot of it.
When all the hard work was done i basically had a good place to start. That's when *I* did what i do best; spent money. I bought a few pairs of swift springs up the scale of target and decided id see what i like the best. I did drive with a 10/kg/10kg but didn't really get many laps in that day. I swapped for the 11k/9k when i got the new tires and it feels like a positive improvement. I'm at the stock valving maxes now so probably wont go up any unless i re-valve. I don't really see the need too since im pretty happy with the set up. I haven't even really started to adjust the compression and rebound settings or dial in rake.
Hell, just getting new tires and figuring out dali sent me the wrong size bar didn't hurt either. As an enthusiast im not really concerned, just interested. Id strap a rubber chicken to my wing if i felt like it was helping me. :]
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What motion ratio front and rear did you end up working out?
What bar did you want and what bar did you get?
What bar did you want and what bar did you get?
