I wish everyone loves NSX 2.0 and will put their 1.0 for sale in the following year, and then the used car market will have much more supply than demand. It can bring the price down. will it happen?
I wish everyone loves NSX 2.0 and will put their 1.0 for sale in the following year, and then the used car market will have much more supply than demand. It can bring the price down. will it happen?
Pull up the 12C side view next to NSX 2.0 and there really is no comparison - the NSX looks way better. The 12C is boring. Apart form the side vents and the low stance, their really is nothing special about it. And I can't stand the thick A pillars.
When I do the same with the 458 and 650S I still say the NSX looks the best. The 458 and 650S have long noses, very short rear overhangs and not a lot of interesting details. I've seen the 458 in person and wanted to love it but just found is meh.
About the only car that has the NSX beat IMO in terms of styling is the Huracan and that car is not designed from the driver's perspective. Its A pillars are way to far out front and the dash is so far away that it feels like you are looking out a gun slit.
The bottom line is that every car design can be criticized and the NSX looks pretty frickin great.
Just because someone is wealthy, doesn't mean they enjoy making trips to their supercar service department and getting raked over the coals by a service writer named Geppetto who makes the customer wait while he finishes his espresso. If you're wealthy your time is worth a lot of money so you don't want to waste it by constantly having to tend to reliability issues. Incidentally, this is probably why early MP4-12C's aren't holding their value very well. This is also why some people will buy a Porsche over a Ferrari.Perhaps the fact that the 2.0 is generating so much opinion, for or against, is itself a win for HONDA.
No matter what HONDA had produced as the 2.0 would have generated likes and dislikes, that is a given.
What I do feel however is that HONDA may be overlooking something when they produced this remarkably advanced road going machine.
The car is priced in a segment where the buyer does not really care for the bullet proof reliability of a HONDA civic or accord. They buyer in this segment wants a sexy machine that makes a statement. Such a car can be an R8, a GT3, etc. etc. It is the aura that the car has in addition to its mechanical qualities.
I think the badge on the hood would be more of a factor than that for a car like the NSX. I do think that the typical Ferrari or Porsche customer would be turned off if suddenly those companies started making cars in Cambodia. But making those cars in the USA probably wouldn't be a big deal, especially if US-built cars were of a high quality.Does a 458 or an R8 or a GT3 lose some of that aura if it is a publicly known fact that the car was put together in Ohio instead of its homeland of origin?
The only way to build that tradition, is to build the cars. Sure Honda could make a cheaper car but even at $100k it's out of reach for all but the top 1-3% of Americans anyway. And at $100k Honda would be hard pressed to take on Ferrari performance without making serious compromises.There will be a surge of demand for the car as it is released. Will the surge be just that or will it have the staying power of the GT3, R8, 458....cars that sell not just because they are so reliable and masterpieces of engineering might, but because in addition to or even instead of that, they also have history, tradition, name...their particular emblems.
Eh, the original NSX wasn't in reach of the average enthusiast anyway. In inflation adjusted dollars the original NSX would've been over $100k. That's still in well into the 'wealthy' enthusiast range.By pricing the 2.0 beyond the reach of the merely well off HONDA has abandoned the very enthusiasts who carried their torch for so long. Creating a car of such ability, HONDA may not have had a choice but to price it accordingly. But by so doing it also entered into a different league of competition where mere ability is no longer enough to win the hearts of the potential buyers.
I agree with you on the trend that most mid-engine cars these days no longer have an ass and have really long noses. I think the NSX is more balanced as it has short overhangs but there is some ass there if you compare it to other mid-engine cars of today.
I cannot say the Huracan looks better. I think they are all so close, it's really personal preference. However, the NSX has better balance with double staggered wheels and a better ass. The 12C/650S is right there in terms balance in proportions too. The 458 and Huracan look slightly silly with same diameter front/rear wheels when you actually look at the sidewalls and their exaggerated nose and short tail. Some might argue this dynamic is exaggerated and desirable tho.
What I am most delighted about is the dropping of R8 comparisons that was rampant up here a while back. Finally the board has come around and dropped it. I still see it from ignorant social media posters that claim to be enthusiast though so I've been posting some propaganda:
Just because someone is wealthy, doesn't mean they enjoy making trips to their supercar service department and getting raked over the coals by a service writer named Geppetto who makes the customer wait while he finishes his espresso. If you're wealthy your time is worth a lot of money so you don't want to waste it by constantly having to tend to reliability issues. Incidentally, this is probably why early MP4-12C's aren't holding their value very well. This is also why some people will buy a Porsche over a Ferrari.
I think the badge on the hood would be more of a factor than that for a car like the NSX. I do think that the typical Ferrari or Porsche customer would be turned off if suddenly those companies started making cars in Cambodia. But making those cars in the USA probably wouldn't be a big deal, especially if US-built cars were of a high quality.
The only way to build that tradition, is to build the cars. Sure Honda could make a cheaper car but even at $100k it's out of reach for all but the top 1-3% of Americans anyway. And at $100k Honda would be hard pressed to take on Ferrari performance without making serious compromises.
And really the R8 doesn't have the supercar legacy to lean on. It's only Ferrari and Porsche in that category. And to a large degree, the Porsche brand doesn't carry the mystique, exclusivity and desire that the Ferrari brand does. I could walk into a dealership and buy a 911 Turbo today. Wouldn't be able to do the same for a 458 without buying a Challenge car too.
Eh, the original NSX wasn't in reach of the average enthusiast anyway. In inflation adjusted dollars the original NSX would've been over $100k. That's still in well into the 'wealthy' enthusiast range.
IMHO: Those who have the financial means and are real fan's of the NSX probably won't sell the 1st gen, they will more than likely keep it alongside the NSX2.0 given that the 1st gen's are real classic cars of the era (1990's).
It's a catch 22, as a prospective owner you want the prices to come down, some current owners probably want the opposite.
Don't worry too much about the engine cover, I'm sure there will be a way to show off more of the engine.
Very cool N-Spec. That really brings it to light. The NSX has the best profile of the bunch. You are too kind to the 458 calling it sleek. That back hatch looks chunky/heavy and that short rear end doesn't help any. I also think you are spot on about the the wheels. I hadn't realized that the 458 and the Huracan had the same diameter wheels front and rear till you mentioned it but you are right.
Now that the NSX design is finalized, would you consider starting a Design Analysis thread (or adding to this one) to highlight the diffs of the these cars? I would be curious to see a comparison of last year's concept to the final production NSX and the C7 compared too if you feel so inspired.
Sleek is appropriate. It's the only one that does not have a large side intake to break up the side lines. Pininfarina is known for a minimalist/streamlined surface treatment mixed with wacky design cues - such as the catfish mustache front end of the 458.
My first order of business is to create a new production 3d model. I'm still concerned that some details will change when it finally rolls from the assembly line so I'm not in a rush to make a model just yet. I may make a C7 3d model, as it is quite stunning. We'll see how bored I get :biggrin:
Another thing I forgot to mention that confirms this car is not completely finished.... There's no protective door sill plates, just bare red paint ready to get scratched to hell by passengers getting in and out of the car.
for the target market, would you get a used 458 or NSX equally priced?
I would think 90% would go with Ferrari. 5% Acura/Honda fans, 3% general sports car fan, 2% if Honda dominates in F1
The last few years of the production sold about 200 a year at 89k and had a great lease of 800 per month 2k down.
+150k NSX lease at best would be 2k a month. How many units they will move a year?
The last few years of the production sold about 200 a year at 89k and had a great lease of 800 per month 2k down.
+150k NSX lease at best would be 2k a month. How many units they will move a year?
I don't think it's very useful to compare the last years of the very long in tooth NSX to the first years of the all-new model. If Ferrari had kept selling the 348 for 17 years they probably wouldn't have sold very many of those either.
At any rate, from what I've been told, the Performance Manufacturing Center can make about 800 NSX's a year with one shift of production. They can add shifts at some point but the personnel that would build these cars need specialized training so adding shifts is not something they could do quickly (lead times would be several months at the least).
At 800 units a year I'd imagine every NSX will be spoken for from years 1 through 3 or 4. If they expand production capacity to 2 thousand cars in year 2, I would think they'd still sell out until year 3 of production. That's assuming performance is excellent, no reliability issues, economy doesn't crash, etc.
for the target market, would you get a used 458 or NSX equally priced?
I would think 90% would go with Ferrari. 5% Acura/Honda fans, 3% general sports car fan, 2% if Honda dominates in F1
How many NSX's have you owned?
I agree, 90% or more will go for the used 458 at this price point.
There is no getting around the prancIing horse mystique. It is a machine with a soul and a scream that alone is worth the price for many.
I agree, 90% or more will go for the used 458 at this price point.
There is no getting around the prancing horse mystique. It is a machine with a soul and a scream that alone is worth the price for many.
Two things on my mind about NSX 2.0 that aren't really negatives on the NSX. But for fun:
1. The exotic car market "woke up" in 1991 due to the NSX 1.0, where they were forced to improve their reliability & ergonomics...but it's kind of a bummer to not see the 2.0 stand out and have that advantage now. I haven't heard a peep about any Honda reliability advantage for the NSX 2.0, which is to be expected now that other makers caught up and closed the gap. But that was such a major part of the 1.0 buzz at the time (and is such a major factor of the 1.0's legendary overall "balance") that I find myself really missing not seeing that buzz now!
2. The 2.0 seems much more fitting as an Acura this time IMHO, based on it having such a stylized design that's more "pretty" than "masculine." I saw way more articles this week on the interwebs about the attractive blonde designer of the NSX than about its performance potential and engineering uniqueness. Not a bad thing I guess, just a thing!
N Spec, I love the comparison you posted. NSX 2.0 looks really good there.
Awesome work N Spec! I was hoping to see exactly what you put together, so thanks! As an owner of a new Z07, I, too, would love to see a side elevation similar to the others you've done. I plan to run my Z this Summer, and dump it in the Fall in favor of the NSX.