I finally installed my brembo big brake kit. Lotus esprit calipers all around. I just did a track day and noticed too much bias on frt brakes. How could I correct this without installing a balance bar pedal setup? I was wondering if I could put bias valve in the lines and fine tune it that way?
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Too much frt brake bias with brembo lotus brakes?
- Thread starter factorynsxtech
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If you have Brembo GT (lotus) all around, you have a 50/50 bias which is too much REAR bias. You would want somewhere between 65-55% front bias. It all depends on tires and suspension setup (spring rates). A front bias is safer than the 50/50 rear bias you currently have. You don't want the rears to lock first.
You have two options, use different compounds F/R or install a brake bias valve. Dali sells a kit with lines or you can buy a Tilton or Wilwood valve and DIY. They make two kinds, a knob type that allows fine tuning or a lever type that has several preset indents.
You have two options, use different compounds F/R or install a brake bias valve. Dali sells a kit with lines or you can buy a Tilton or Wilwood valve and DIY. They make two kinds, a knob type that allows fine tuning or a lever type that has several preset indents.
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will the bias effect the abs or tcs?
Traction control - no.
ABS - yes, but in a good way.
Right now, with Brembos front and rear the ABS will be triggered by the rears locking up first.
http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=399&CFID=15269044&CFTOKEN=40219996
You'd ideally want to use two rotary knob valves as the lever style limit you to certain positions and can vary up to 20% from one unit to another's same position. The rotary valve gives you unlimited positioning, however, you will want to install a gauge per channel to make sure each corner is getting the same pressure. SPA makes a good gauge with two channels of sensors. We sell this if you need it.
Cheers,
-- Chris
Cheers,
-- Chris
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AP Racing.
Doesn't the AP racing use a BBK up front and just a bracket to move the OEM caliper out on the rear? RB +2 setup looks it would be a better setup than the AP rear as RB using a whole new bracket instead of just a add on bracket. BTW: This is NOT an "ideal" setup as you still have too much front bias. The clamping force of the OEM 1 pot sliding caliper can't match the 4 pot in the front. This is better than BBK front and OEM rear, but only slightly better - still something like a 70 +/- % front bias.
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AP has a full, extremely well-balanced 4-wheel system that was developed a few years ago. This system completely replaces all OE components front and rear, and includes separate parking brake calipers.
BTW: This is NOT an "ideal" setup as you still have too much front bias. The clamping force of the OEM 1 pot sliding caliper can't match the 4 pot in the front. This is better than BBK front and OEM rear, but only slightly better - still something like a 70 +/- % front bias.
The rear system uses a 4-piston caliper and a 330x28mm 2-piece rotor on an aluminum hat. The OE parking brake cable is rerouted and re-used. The 6-piston front system has been upgraded to the latest strap drive disc mounting technology.
These kits were not marketed into the USA as there was some question about whether or not there was still a market for such a complete system. Drivers in the UK who track their upgraded street NSX's absolutely love the performance of the AP solution. If a few people got together and talked to Stillen (AP's USA agent), I'm sure a small batch of these could be made up again.
Chris
Notwithstanding the above post, which also sounds liek it was tuned for an NSX application, Stoptech makes a F/R set that has the NSX balance factored in without need for a bias valve. SOS sells it: http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/braking_performance_parts/NSX/Stoptech/big_brake_system/
The AP Racing 6 piston front 4 piston rear kit is very nice, but the calipers are extremely wide, making wheel clearance a big problem. They are signficantly more offset to the outside of the car compared to even other very wide caliper kits, like the Stoptech kit. For the money, it's hard to touch the Stoptech kit.
-- Chris
-- Chris
Ok recently I checked compounds. I had a softer compound on the back compared to the front. iI swapped the rear pads with the same compound as the frts. I just came back from Mosport big track. The braking felt awesome there with this set up. No fade and lots of straight stopping. Mosport is a high speed bigger track than the last track i was at. The last track was a slower tight corner track with 2 straights and lots of corners. Im going to tray the new set up therre this weekend. I will let you know.
If you have Brembo front and rear I would run a softer compound on the rear (like you had). You already have a 50/50 bias if you run the same pads F/R - not good. You want a slightly front bias both for safety and because you when you brake, the weight transfers forward.
On top of it, you never mentioned your suspension setup and tires (sizes and brand/model). ????
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Yes, the AP Racing 6-piston front caliper has 5mm more caliper protrusion in the direction of the spokes than the S/T 4-piston front. This will make it difficult for some wheels and not a big deal for others. And for all-out performance, it's hard to touch the AP Racing kit -- at any price.
Link to template: http://www.apracing.com/drawings/p16161.pdf
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Front was around $3800; rear (including separate parking brake calipers) around $4k. It might be better now with the more favorable exchange rate.
Chris
For me personally, I can't imagine ever needing more than the Racing Brake big rotor upgrade kit. Inherently should maintain OE brake bias.
My two cents...remove the brembo lotus calipers in the rear and go back to OEM NSX calipers only in the rear. Then only use the front Brembos...it works on my track car.
Chris_B, I'm in the market for a BBK for my new race car project.
Can you refer me to anyone who can supply the AP kit you mention ?
Can you refer me to anyone who can supply the AP kit you mention ?
Performance Friction:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134437&highlight=performance+friction
-Piston sizing designed specifically for the NSX with the stock master cylinder (or the same size master cylinders in a twin-master racing setup). Custom calipers, not "off the shelf" compromises. Bias optimized for the NSX's weight distribution, tire size, center of gravity, and background from PFC's JGTC racing background on the Epson NSX as well as input from FXMD's production-based Time Attack racecar.
-355x30mm rotors (14" rotors) increasing brake torque and 'bite', as well as distributing heat over a larger surface area to reduce overheating.
-PFC's "Multi-pad" caliper technology (same used in JGTC and ALMS Prototypes and Grand-Am DP). 4 brake pads PER caliper (one pad per piston) which improves even pad wear, brake modulation, and release characteristics.
-Forged Monoblock caliper. Not cast like many monoblocks on the market. Resulting in an extremely light and rigid caliper which improves brake consistency, pedal feel, and modulation.
These are by far the best brakes ever made for an NSX that i've driven on (and i've driven on most every system out there) -and is the same design and architecture that i've driven on in many professional race cars (Grand Am GS, GT, Speed World Challenge, etc...) and is arguably one of the best if not the best in that arena. Pricey - yes, but arguably the best option out there for the NSX.
Billy
Get what you pay for though eh !
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