Tuner ? on timing when running methanol combined with an intercooler or aftercooler

[nsxlife]

Calling all experienced tuners...

For those of you that are running methanol along with an intercooler or aftercooler I'm curious what your timing settings are in relation to stock?

My understanding is that as a basic rule of thumb you should run 1 degree retard for every 1lb of boost from stock. However when running methanol and intercooler or aftercooler it's safe to advance the timing resulting in more power.

Is their a typical degree for advancing timing on this? Is their another rule of thumb or a way to guage this to maximize the cooler air and the methanol without actually pushing the mark to detonation?

Thanks for your help!

 

[yamahaSHO]

Calling all experienced tuners...

For those of you that are running methanol along with an intercooler or aftercooler I'm curious what your timing settings are in relation to stock?

My understanding is that as a basic rule of thumb you should run 1 degree retard for every 1lb of boost from stock. However when running methanol and intercooler or aftercooler it's safe to advance the timing resulting in more power.

Is their a typical degree for this? Is their another rule of thumb or a way to guage this to maximize the cooler air and the methanol without actually pushing the mark to detonation?

Thanks for your help!

I haven't tuned an NSX, but I've always used a the rule of subtracting 1 degree of timing (over stock) per 2 PSI of boost. With meth, you should be able to advance your timing, but depending on how much meth you're injecting among other factors, it would be hard to gauge.

The best you can really do is add a degree of timing over the RPM range (that you see fit) and log the data. I generally like to, at some point, go out on a very hot day and run a few higher load pulls and watch what the PCM is doing.

 

[angus]

How much meth are you flowing?

 

[yamahaSHO]

How much meth are you flowing?

I wish I could remember that off the top of my head, but I haven't measured it out in 5 years and since the car sees such little use (5k miles in 5 years), I haven't messed with it lately.

When I get home next week, I can certainly measure it.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

We have seen little to know effect on intake temperature or knock when using meth sprayed ahead of screw and Roots superchargers. I assume this is how you have it plumbed? For ignition, I think your rule of thumb is a good starting point.

-- Chris

 

[nsxlife]

How much meth are you flowing?

I'm running the large nozzle (550cc/min) with the AEM water meth kit. Prior to adding the aftercooler it put down 423.1 so it's within the recommended nozzle setting for that power according to the manual. Meth starts flowing at 3psi and full pressure by 6psi. My total boost is 10.5 psi. Thanks again for your help!

 

[nsxlife]

We have seen little to know effect on intake temperature or knock when using meth sprayed ahead of screw and Roots superchargers. I assume this is how you have it plumbed? For ignition, I think your rule of thumb is a good starting point.

-- Chris

So would you suggest running methanol is not bennificial? And yes, it is plumbed into the neck of the intake ahead of your supercharger system. I'm running your SOS supercharger system with Laminova aftercooler and the meth now.

 

[angus]

I have heard people claim meth does nothing to lower intake temp or knock - the only thing I can say is each to their own.

If you want my advice on tuning your setup:

- set it so it starts at 1-2 psi

- max it at 10 psi

- put the nozzle in the airbox (farther from the TB) so it'll atomize more and also avoid TPS issues (hondas all have issues with the meth eating the sensors)

- RUN STRAIGHT METH

- ADD A CHECK VALVE TO YOUR SYSTEM

- at 10 PSI consider a 750cc nozzle (coolingmist)

- I am a coolingmist dealer and have tuned turbo hondas with meth since 2004.

 

[nsxlife]

I have heard people claim meth does nothing to lower intake temp or knock - the only thing I can say is each to their own.

If you want my advice on tuning your setup:

- set it so it starts at 1-2 psi

- max it at 10 psi

- put the nozzle in the airbox (farther from the TB) so it'll atomize more and also avoid TPS issues (hondas all have issues with the meth eating the sensors)

- RUN STRAIGHT METH

- ADD A CHECK VALVE TO YOUR SYSTEM

- at 10 PSI consider a 750cc nozzle (coolingmist)

- I am a coolingmist dealer and have tuned turbo hondas with meth since 2004.

Thanks Angus. My nozzle is actually in the neck of the airbox. I can make the change to the progressive spray and I'll PM you about the 750cc nozzle, also no problem running straght meth. Doing this, how much would you advance timing closer or to stock? I'm currently running 6.5 degres retarted from stock, so it's slightly advanced from 1 degree per lb of boost.

Just trying to figure out how far advanced I should go considering running meth as well as the laminova aftercooler...?


Thanks again for any help!

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

We have seen benefits in some applications (turbocharged and centrifugal supercharged where the liquid is injected post compressor), however, not with Roots and twin screw superchargers with back to back testing. The cooling effect is probably dissipated when interacting with the screws / lobes which act as large heat sinks. Because of this, the anti-detonation effect (and ability to advance ignition) is nill. Water has a greater density than methanol. Methanol adds a less significant effect of combustibility but a more important anti-freeze property. A 50/50 mix is preferred, and distilled water should always be used.

-- Chris

 

[angus]

Thanks Angus. My nozzle is actually in the neck of the airbox. I can make the change to the progressive spray and I'll PM you about the 750cc nozzle, also no problem running straght meth. Doing this, how much would you advance timing closer or to stock? I'm currently running 6.5 degres retarted from stock, so it's slightly advanced from 1 degree per lb of boost.

Just trying to figure out how far advanced I should go considering running meth as well as the laminova aftercooler...?


Thanks again for any help!

I would not advance too much as the power gains are probably not worth the risk, just by running the meth you should already be gaining significant power.

Your nozzle is placed exactly where I put them on CTSC cars, on a '97 w/ autorotor we gained 30whp by adding a 500cc meth jet and no other mods but to turn the fuel pressure down a few psi.

BTW - on some applications we inject the meth pre-compressor even on turbocharged cars, sometimes we add a second jet so there is one before and one after the compressor.


Add a check valve, it'll make your system work so much better.

 

[baynsac]

Angus- On your meth kit for turbo charged cars. Where is the best place to place the Meth nozzle??
Also do you advice me doing this to my car :
"on some applications we inject the meth pre-compressor even on turbocharged cars, sometimes we add a second jet so there is one before and one after the compressor."

I would not advance too much as the power gains are probably not worth the risk, just by running the meth you should already be gaining significant power.

Your nozzle is placed exactly where I put them on CTSC cars, on a '97 w/ autorotor we gained 30whp by adding a 500cc meth jet and no other mods but to turn the fuel pressure down a few psi.

BTW - on some applications we inject the meth pre-compressor even on turbocharged cars, sometimes we add a second jet so there is one before and one after the compressor.


Add a check valve, it'll make your system work so much better.