Hello everyone. I just took my 92 NSX to Thunderhill yesterday and had a blast. I NEED to upgrade my front brakes. Any suggestions? What is the best kit for the money? Thanks.
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
What is the Best Big Brake Kit for the Money? Who sells it?
- Thread starter Litespeeds
- Start date
What (specifically) are you trying to accomplish with a big brake kit? What problems are you having now? What is your current setup (brakes as well as wheels)?
There are some things you can do without putting in a big brake kit, depending on what you're aiming for...
There are some things you can do without putting in a big brake kit, depending on what you're aiming for...
Right now I have factory size cross drilled/slotted rotors with Hawk street/strip pads with Motul 600 brake fluid. I took my car out to Thunderhill and my brakes started to fade after about 5 laps or so. It all depends upon how fast I wanted to go before braking into the turns. I figure I could get away with just the fronts. I really enjoyed tracking my car and will probably do more in the future. I have read the real world braking article and I figured that I would be spending more than half of a big brake kit, so why not go the extra mile and do it right.
The handling was sssooooo nice! Very neutral. Just wished I had a supercharger and bigger brakes and I will be a happy camper. Anyway, thought I'd ask around to see where the best deal is for a set of front big brakes. Thanks.
The handling was sssooooo nice! Very neutral. Just wished I had a supercharger and bigger brakes and I will be a happy camper. Anyway, thought I'd ask around to see where the best deal is for a set of front big brakes. Thanks.
I've been searching everywhere for the same answers to the big brake question....
is there someone who is willing/capable/or HAS made their own kits?
I can get porsche big red calipers relatively easily, but I want to make sure that I'm getting the best set-up for the money, and I would rather not pay $3K for a kit. I know you get what you pay for, but you should be able to put a kit together for under $2K easily for a full front setup and at least rotors and bracket mounts for the rear.
I'm going to be running 18" volk LE37T's on mine. I have the TT system, and the carbotech's don't come close to cutting it for me!
anyone who can help this cause....PLEASE help out.
is there someone who is willing/capable/or HAS made their own kits?
I can get porsche big red calipers relatively easily, but I want to make sure that I'm getting the best set-up for the money, and I would rather not pay $3K for a kit. I know you get what you pay for, but you should be able to put a kit together for under $2K easily for a full front setup and at least rotors and bracket mounts for the rear.
I'm going to be running 18" volk LE37T's on mine. I have the TT system, and the carbotech's don't come close to cutting it for me!
anyone who can help this cause....PLEASE help out.
I'm putting my brake kit back for sale again when I come back from my trip in late September. Just to give you guys a heads up so you can start saving
. It's the old RM kit using Ap calipers with 13inch rotors.
------------------
George W
Porsche 996 for sale!
------------------
George W
Porsche 996 for sale!
If you need an advice The TAROX ITS better choice 10 caliper in front size rotor depend of wheel that you have and for the rear the 332 mm rotor with stock caliper for to keep the hand brakes
Regards
Andrea
www.viviservice.com
[email protected]
http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000346.html
Regards
Andrea
www.viviservice.com
[email protected]
http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000346.html
Did you bring the car into the paddock, let it cool down, and take it out again? And do it once more? I haven't used these pads specifically, but they could have been fading if they had never been properly brought up to (HOT!) operating temperature - the same "green pad syndrome" you can find with any brake pads.
Also, some types of pads are more resistant to fade than others.
You may also benefit from installing some air ducts to cool the brakes - another inexpensive solution.
There's nothing wrong with the big brake kits; it's just that it may not be necessary.
The various big brake kits vary in size and may or may not work with any particular size and type of wheels. For example, the expensive Comptech kit costs around $10K because most wheels won't clear it, so a set of wheels and tires is included in that price. Some kits clear the OEM 16"/17" wheels; some don't. If you have to buy a new set of wheels, obviously that drives up the cost of the kit.
I have heard that all you need for fade resistance is to upgrade to 97+ brakes.
The rotors are larger and are much more fade resistant. You can retain your calipers (they are the same). All you need is to get your hands on 97+ caliper brackets to reposition the calipers.
------------------
1991 NSX Red/Black
The rotors are larger and are much more fade resistant. You can retain your calipers (they are the same). All you need is to get your hands on 97+ caliper brackets to reposition the calipers.
------------------
1991 NSX Red/Black
- Joined
- 3 February 2000
- Messages
- 3,942
HAH! The big 13" Powertec Brembo brake kit includes calipers, pads, rotors, hats, brackets, ss lines, parking brake calipers, instructions, and their best wishes. You provide the wheels.
Heck their 12.4" front-only brake kit, which fits under the OEM wheels, retails for $4200.
So the 4-wheel 13" brake kit, which retails for $8695 or $9525 depending on your choice of rotors, certainly doesn't include wheels and tires!
If you buy a set of wheels from Comptech to clear the big brake kit, such as the 17/18 Simmons wheels, add $3190 + shipping. You can also get Tecnos or a few other wheels for around $2200 (17/17) to $2500 (17/18) plus shipping from Dali.
Then go tire shopping and expect to spend in the neighborhood of $1000 for four of anything decent... Though you can save on rears if you go with 17" rear wheels.
But MAN they stop the car well!!!
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 15 August 2002).]
- Joined
- 14 April 2002
- Messages
- 2,273
I don't know enough about your situation but I was looking for less track fade while still minimizing rotor wear, street pad usage, dusting, squealing, and most of all my wife squealing (price!).
I am extremely happy with my setup and it is surprisingly inexpensive.
Braking:
- Dali Brembo drilled and slotted rotors
- Dali SS / Kevlar Brake Lines
- Dali brake ducts
- RM Racing Pads
- SuperBlue ATE brake fluid
- SpeedBleeder brake valves (for quick and frequent bleeding)
I know find the stock NSX brakes are more then adequate and an upgrade may give me a slight advantage in braking power - but may have many drawbacks I listed above.
------------------
Nick M
91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
I am extremely happy with my setup and it is surprisingly inexpensive.
Braking:
- Dali Brembo drilled and slotted rotors
- Dali SS / Kevlar Brake Lines
- Dali brake ducts
- RM Racing Pads
- SuperBlue ATE brake fluid
- SpeedBleeder brake valves (for quick and frequent bleeding)
I know find the stock NSX brakes are more then adequate and an upgrade may give me a slight advantage in braking power - but may have many drawbacks I listed above.
------------------
Nick M
91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
Right, Marc Weinberg aka "NSXTC" did this and he tracks his car often. I was just with him at Willow Springs on a very hot day and he had no problems with his brakes...But then again neither did I and I've done the same "upgrade" as some of the others (Motul, Drilled/Slotted Rotors, SS Lines/ Track Pads). Although, at Willow you only really us your brakes twice, before turn one and before turn 3.
Does anyone have experince with the AP kit that Chris sells through SOS. It seems to be a quality kit thats sells for less than the others mentioned.
[This message has been edited by Craig (edited 08 August 2002).]
I got to chime in here. I've driven NSXS with almost any brake system available out there except Tarox. Me personally has the Porsche big red system. Money aside, the Comptech Power grip out perform any of them by a big margin. And I mean a big margin!
The NSX stock brakes (91-96) are actually pretty decent. If you cook your brakes within 5 laps using street tires, you either: have shitty pads, not enough experience, or a freakin fast driver. In Thunderhill, the NSX stock brakes should hold up for around 10 good lap with good pads.
The 97 up stock brakes are an improvement, but still not enough if you use track tires.
Don't even think to just upgrade the front brake. You will have a car that has unbalanced brakes and will in fact stop shorter distance, especially on street tires. On track tires it is somewhat compensated, as the tires are very sticky, and more weight transfer. Been there, done that.
Our cars are mid-engine car, the engineers made the brake rotors, almost the same diameter, front and rear for a good reason. There are lot less weight transfer under braking, due to lower center of gravity, and the fact that most of the weight are in the back. Same with Porsche, their front and rear brakes are almost the same size. If I'm not mistaken the 97up NSX even has bigger rotors in the rear.
The Porsche big red is a good system, because they have the famous braking power and the seals so the caliper need not to be rebuild often. It is a street caliper that perform very well on the track. The downside, is, the caliper can be as much as 14mm thicker than any other brake kit out there. It is almost impossible to find a wheel that fits over the big mongo brakes. And I am 100% sure, the LE37, won't fit. As much as price go, unless you have your own machine shop and know what kind of material to use on the brake hat, brake bracket, and the bolt hardware, don't even think to do so. Even with such capabilities, you are looking very close to $2K with just the front kit alone. I know, cause I did it.
I think the AP system that science of speed sells is a very good system. Works very well on the track or on the street. It has proper brake balance, and priced very reasonably. It has clearance for most wheels.
The brembo GT, is also a good system. This is the thinnest caliper among all of them. About 6mm thinner than the AP. Thus give even more room than the AP, for wheel selection choice.
I can't comment on Tarox as I never tried them.
Good brakes reading!: http://stoptech.com/whitepapers/brake_systems_and_upgrade_selections_122701.htm
[This message has been edited by Andrie Hartanto (edited 08 August 2002).]
The NSX stock brakes (91-96) are actually pretty decent. If you cook your brakes within 5 laps using street tires, you either: have shitty pads, not enough experience, or a freakin fast driver. In Thunderhill, the NSX stock brakes should hold up for around 10 good lap with good pads.
The 97 up stock brakes are an improvement, but still not enough if you use track tires.
Don't even think to just upgrade the front brake. You will have a car that has unbalanced brakes and will in fact stop shorter distance, especially on street tires. On track tires it is somewhat compensated, as the tires are very sticky, and more weight transfer. Been there, done that.
Our cars are mid-engine car, the engineers made the brake rotors, almost the same diameter, front and rear for a good reason. There are lot less weight transfer under braking, due to lower center of gravity, and the fact that most of the weight are in the back. Same with Porsche, their front and rear brakes are almost the same size. If I'm not mistaken the 97up NSX even has bigger rotors in the rear.
The Porsche big red is a good system, because they have the famous braking power and the seals so the caliper need not to be rebuild often. It is a street caliper that perform very well on the track. The downside, is, the caliper can be as much as 14mm thicker than any other brake kit out there. It is almost impossible to find a wheel that fits over the big mongo brakes. And I am 100% sure, the LE37, won't fit. As much as price go, unless you have your own machine shop and know what kind of material to use on the brake hat, brake bracket, and the bolt hardware, don't even think to do so. Even with such capabilities, you are looking very close to $2K with just the front kit alone. I know, cause I did it.
I think the AP system that science of speed sells is a very good system. Works very well on the track or on the street. It has proper brake balance, and priced very reasonably. It has clearance for most wheels.
The brembo GT, is also a good system. This is the thinnest caliper among all of them. About 6mm thinner than the AP. Thus give even more room than the AP, for wheel selection choice.
I can't comment on Tarox as I never tried them.
Good brakes reading!: http://stoptech.com/whitepapers/brake_systems_and_upgrade_selections_122701.htm
[This message has been edited by Andrie Hartanto (edited 08 August 2002).]
When I measured them, the Brembo lotus caliper came to 140mm and the AP Racing caliper we use 143mm. However, caliper thickness doesn't mean everything. The AP Racing will clear wheels easier because the Brembo Gran Turismo setup has a more positive offset due to the thickness of the hats and the more positive offset that they have. The AP Racing caliper is also much lighter (billet aluminum vs. cast iron).
I have driven most of the brake kits on the market as well. What I like about the ScienceofSpeed AP Racing kit is that it is designed properly biased front to rear out of the box. No monkeying with proportioning valves and adding additional variables in to the equation. Also, unlike the TAROX or Brembo setups, the factory e-brake is retained. No need buy the $995.00 e-brake option from Brembo.
However, like mentioned above, I recommend customers try to upgrade their brakes before even considering a big brake package. You can make substantial improvement to the factory brake setup with better pads, cooling, and fluid.
more info: http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/braking_performance_parts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/ap_racing/
Regards,
-- Chris
------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
I have driven most of the brake kits on the market as well. What I like about the ScienceofSpeed AP Racing kit is that it is designed properly biased front to rear out of the box. No monkeying with proportioning valves and adding additional variables in to the equation. Also, unlike the TAROX or Brembo setups, the factory e-brake is retained. No need buy the $995.00 e-brake option from Brembo.
However, like mentioned above, I recommend customers try to upgrade their brakes before even considering a big brake package. You can make substantial improvement to the factory brake setup with better pads, cooling, and fluid.
more info: http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/braking_performance_parts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/ap_racing/
Regards,
-- Chris
------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
For me to buy a Brembo kits its like to go back in the past beacause the kit its very old style and quality and we must to tell also that brembo kit are designed for other cars and not for the NSX . The Tarox kits are designed for the NSX and only for that car they are not adapted from another car and remember that you drive a middle engine so the rear brake are very important not only the front we must to upgrade. The problem for the brake are the temperature for example
The only front tarox 16" wheel kit going to 280°/300°when you brake hard but when you put in back bigger rotor 332 mm(for nsx 3000 cc) and 302mm(for nsx 3.200cc) also with stock caliper the temperature for the front in braking lower about 100°/110°.
And also if you see the cost http://www.viviservice.com/taroxprice.htm
Will be better to think TAROX also if I agrree with chris that one of the best its AP Brake kits but the cost are to high for to have the same products.
Regards
Andrea
www.viviservice.com
[email protected]
The only front tarox 16" wheel kit going to 280°/300°when you brake hard but when you put in back bigger rotor 332 mm(for nsx 3000 cc) and 302mm(for nsx 3.200cc) also with stock caliper the temperature for the front in braking lower about 100°/110°.
And also if you see the cost http://www.viviservice.com/taroxprice.htm
Will be better to think TAROX also if I agrree with chris that one of the best its AP Brake kits but the cost are to high for to have the same products.
Regards
Andrea
www.viviservice.com
[email protected]
I forgot Chris that i have to disagree with you about this
( TAROX (6 piston/6 piston) $3600 No - requires proportioning valve (+ $375)
- e-brake not included (+ $995)
- pistons non-sequential
- no floating hats)
Beacause
You don't need proportioning valve
Piston are sequential
Regards
Andrea
( TAROX (6 piston/6 piston) $3600 No - requires proportioning valve (+ $375)
- e-brake not included (+ $995)
- pistons non-sequential
- no floating hats)
Beacause
You don't need proportioning valve
Piston are sequential
Regards
Andrea
DanO has the Tarox setup and I'm sure he'll comment as well...
A proportioning valve is definitely required. While you may not experience rear over bias on the street under normal usage, you will most definitely on the track and possibly under emergency braking on the street. When the rears lock up under braking, your traction nearly goes to zero which could be a dangerous situation especially with lateral force in a turn.
Also, the TAROX calipers I have seen (and owned in the past) are not sequentially sized. Maybe you thought I meant "in sequence".
The TAROX have a decent price, however, you must consider all the added costs of e-brake and proportioning valve for a full kit. Andrea, do you know if TAROX is going to make the rear e-brake assembly for NSX? Possibly we could collaborate on this.
Regards,
-- Chris
------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
[This message has been edited by ScienceofSpeed (edited 08 August 2002).]
Also, the TAROX calipers I have seen (and owned in the past) are not sequentially sized. Maybe you thought I meant "in sequence".
The TAROX have a decent price, however, you must consider all the added costs of e-brake and proportioning valve for a full kit. Andrea, do you know if TAROX is going to make the rear e-brake assembly for NSX? Possibly we could collaborate on this.
Regards,
-- Chris
------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
[This message has been edited by ScienceofSpeed (edited 08 August 2002).]
I have the Tarox 10 in front, 6 in back.
This set-up definately has too much rear braking. I'm currently using weaker pads in the rear as a cheap biasing solution, and the balance is much closer (though still slightly a bit rear biased, but it's not nearly as scary under hard braking.)
I've used the Tarox at Thunderhill 3 or 4 times and twice at Sears Point and I have yet to experience any fade. Though bear in mind, I'm not the fastest driver, but I do tend to brake late.
------------------
Tim Meekins
1997 Yellow NSX-T
http://tmeekins.com
This set-up definately has too much rear braking. I'm currently using weaker pads in the rear as a cheap biasing solution, and the balance is much closer (though still slightly a bit rear biased, but it's not nearly as scary under hard braking.)
I've used the Tarox at Thunderhill 3 or 4 times and twice at Sears Point and I have yet to experience any fade. Though bear in mind, I'm not the fastest driver, but I do tend to brake late.
------------------
Tim Meekins
1997 Yellow NSX-T
http://tmeekins.com
Sure I’ll comment <g>.
I have the TAROX 6-piston on both front and rear and also have the proportioning valve and brembo e-brake. If you go with the 6/6 then you will need the proportioning valve. I drive regularly at Gingerman (not too hard on brakes if you drive correctly) and the brakes perform awesome. I also drove Road America (hard on brakes no matter how you drive) last year with them they held up really well and I was pleased with their performance. There are many brake options out there now and you’re doing the smart thing by finding out what your options are.
Like Chris said, you may want to try an incremental approach by first making your OEM setup as track-friendly as possible (see: www.danoland.com/nsxgarage/brakes/track/track.htm). If that doesn’t work then try upgrading the fronts and then the rears. I know guys who run the TAROX 6 up front and OEM in the rear and seem to get along with the setup OK. Keep in mind that there is substantial potential braking to be done by the rear brakes (at least within the first few tenths of a second). Currently, my rear brakes run 200 degrees F hotter than my fronts (I’m waiting for a rear brake cooling kit to be made by one of our vendors <g>) and that’s because I have proper ventilation to the fronts and no ventilation to the rears. No brake kit will perform well without proper ventilation so that’s where I’d start first.
.02,
DanO
DanO, can you comment on front wheel clearance? What are you running and how much room to spare?
If my memory is correct, DanO has the 16"/17" OEM wheels, and the clearance in front is about the thickness of a couple of business cards - IOW, less than 1 mm. Right?
The TAROX has a smaller disc size which allows it to clear the stock 16/17" wheels. The caliper will clear by a hair, but should not be a problem.
-- Chris
-- Chris
TarOx works with 16" front; AP requires 17" front. Brembo works with either, depending on rotor size (12.4" for 16", 12.9 for 17").
Interestingly enough:
- Tarox 6-pot provides higher brake pressure than Tarox 10-pot
- Tarox caliper on 12.4" rotor provides LARGER swept area than AP on 13" rotor (!)
#############
I have the AP/RM setup with 13" rotors F/R, front AP caliper, and OE rear caliper. No additional bias adjustments required. System works GREAT, but wheel fitments are pretty limited.
I happened to get a great deal on used parts, but if I had to do it again, Tarox would probably be my best bet. Bonus is that it works with a lot of wheel fitments incuding OEM 16/17 and 17/17.
################
I agree with earlier posts:
- OE setup CAN go a long way;
- bed pads in properly;
- bleed calipers frequently; change (high-temp DOT4) fluid on schedule;
- get good ventilation to the front rotors;
- on most tracks, technique refinements go a long way... although on high speed ones like Road America, you'll need to drop anchor a couple of times a lap
Our friend Andie might have more to add too
Interestingly enough:
- Tarox 6-pot provides higher brake pressure than Tarox 10-pot
- Tarox caliper on 12.4" rotor provides LARGER swept area than AP on 13" rotor (!)
#############
I have the AP/RM setup with 13" rotors F/R, front AP caliper, and OE rear caliper. No additional bias adjustments required. System works GREAT, but wheel fitments are pretty limited.
I happened to get a great deal on used parts, but if I had to do it again, Tarox would probably be my best bet. Bonus is that it works with a lot of wheel fitments incuding OEM 16/17 and 17/17.
################
I agree with earlier posts:
- OE setup CAN go a long way;
- bed pads in properly;
- bleed calipers frequently; change (high-temp DOT4) fluid on schedule;
- get good ventilation to the front rotors;
- on most tracks, technique refinements go a long way... although on high speed ones like Road America, you'll need to drop anchor a couple of times a lap
Our friend Andie might have more to add too
- Joined
- 14 April 2002
- Messages
- 2,273
I used to own a Porsche 930 and everyone was always upgrading to the "big" brake 993 kits. There was a big article about this because stopping distance was not being improved. When you go to a much larger caliper with many more pistons you really need to consider the entire brake system - including the master cylinder.
Our OEM setup was designed to push and hold a certain pressure. Better braking system demand a more powerful and responsive hydraulic system - yet I rarely see anyone on our list discuss the need to upgrade the hydraulic system / master cylinder too. Food for thought when spending thousands of dollars...
------------------
Nick M
91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
[This message has been edited by matteni (edited 08 August 2002).]
Our OEM setup was designed to push and hold a certain pressure. Better braking system demand a more powerful and responsive hydraulic system - yet I rarely see anyone on our list discuss the need to upgrade the hydraulic system / master cylinder too. Food for thought when spending thousands of dollars...
------------------
Nick M
91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
[This message has been edited by matteni (edited 08 August 2002).]
I gather that you are speaking of the OEM wheels. I'm curious to hear about other wheel options. For example, I have 17" SS Integral and the darn spoke design doesn't leave much room with '93 OEM fronts calipers. However, a larger diameter rotor would actually increase clearance as the spokes curve outwards. I'd probably buy the AP if they fit without spacers with Tarox the second choice. I've got the AP fitment template from SOS but haven't tried to check it yet. (too much time out here)
