When should I ask for a promotion?

[White98LS]

I need some career advice and I'm not sure who to go to... NSX Primers always seem to offer pretty good insights though, so I was hoping to get some input from some of you.

I got a job in corporate expense planning straight out of college in June '06. Was supposed to assist an MBA who had been doing it for the company with an assistant for 4 years. I was the replacement for the assistant. She unexpectedly moved to China 6 weeks later, shortly before the annual expense planning period (when we develop our next year's expense plan, by far the busiest and most important time). I was stuck with executing the expense plan for a 7,500-employee company with $1B of expenses by myself, although I did get a company veteran (new to the dept. however) to help about halfway through. Today we just about split the work 50/50, but suffice to say with both of us new, it was complete chaos last year. A nightmare. My boss understood fully and even rewarded my struggles with a small spot bonus (hard to come by in the company).

This year, with our feet on the ground, we pieced together the process and then totally reworked it, and the feedback was quite positive - most agree it is one of the smoothest and best planning years ever, with any company. I am proud of my work, and believe I have earned a promotion to Sr. Analyst. My boss just got promoted to VP, the expressed reason being how smoothly and solidly planning went this year ("hey, didn't I do that?!").

I actually plan on job hunting in the spring/summer of '08, because I want a different experience (preferably in an investing type of role) before I apply for MBA schools for the '09 school year. My review is due in mid-March, about when I plan to start looking. Should I ask for a promotion now? Wait to see what happens at review time, and then ask if I don't get what I want? Last year I got a generous 10% raise, but my real improvements came after that, and I feel I deserve more than a similar raise this year. Particularly, the promotion and title change are highly desirable to me in both interviewing for other jobs and for schools. It's more of a launching off point than a short-term desire. If it's a really sweet deal and I don't find any other good opportunities, who knows, I might even stay with the company - I don't mind the job at all, I just think it would be wise to get more diverse experience before grad school.

Any advice? This is my first time asking for a promotion so I'm kind of nervous and not sure how to go about it, but then again I feel with my body of work and value to the company, it's quite justified and I have nothing to lose really. If I were to quit, I'm 98% sure I'd receive a counter-offer. I've documented a large portion of my work, but they know they'd still be hit pretty hard if I left. I guess I just feel a little silly/overambitious asking for a promotion to Sr. at age 23, but again, I feel it's justified and several of my co-workers (older who are Senior Analysts or leads in other areas) have told me I deserve it.

 

[NsXMas]

I need some career advice and I'm not sure who to go to... NSX Primers always seem to offer pretty good insights though, so I was hoping to get some input from some of you.

I got a job in corporate expense planning straight out of college in June '06. Was supposed to assist an MBA who had been doing it for the company with an assistant for 4 years. I was the replacement for the assistant. She unexpectedly moved to China 6 weeks later, shortly before the annual expense planning period (when we develop our next year's expense plan, by far the busiest and most important time). I was stuck with executing the expense plan for a 7,500-employee company with $1B of expenses by myself, although I did get a company veteran (new to the dept. however) to help about halfway through. Today we just about split the work 50/50, but suffice to say with both of us new, it was complete chaos last year. A nightmare. My boss understood fully and even rewarded my struggles with a small spot bonus (hard to come by in the company).

This year, with our feet on the ground, we pieced together the process and then totally reworked it, and the feedback was quite positive - most agree it is one of the smoothest and best planning years ever, with any company. I am proud of my work, and believe I have earned a promotion to Sr. Analyst. My boss just got promoted to VP, the expressed reason being how smoothly and solidly planning went this year ("hey, didn't I do that?!").

I actually plan on job hunting in the spring/summer of '08, because I want a different experience (preferably in an investing type of role) before I apply for MBA schools for the '09 school year. My review is due in mid-March, about when I plan to start looking. Should I ask for a promotion now? Wait to see what happens at review time, and then ask if I don't get what I want? Last year I got a generous 10% raise, but my real improvements came after that, and I feel I deserve more than a similar raise this year. Particularly, the promotion and title change are highly desirable to me in both interviewing for other jobs and for schools. It's more of a launching off point than a short-term desire. If it's a really sweet deal and I don't find any other good opportunities, who knows, I might even stay with the company - I don't mind the job at all, I just think it would be wise to get more diverse experience before grad school.

Any advice? This is my first time asking for a promotion so I'm kind of nervous and not sure how to go about it, but then again I feel with my body of work and value to the company, it's quite justified and I have nothing to lose really. If I were to quit, I'm 98% sure I'd receive a counter-offer. I've documented a large portion of my work, but they know they'd still be hit pretty hard if I left. I guess I just feel a little silly/overambitious asking for a promotion to Sr. at age 23, but again, I feel it's justified and several of my co-workers (older who are Senior Analysts or leads in other areas) have told me I deserve it.

Now's as good a time as any. Just be sure you get your ducks lined up in a row - document what work you've done, how you've met / exceeded expectations, and why you deserve a promotion. FYI age 23 is a bit young, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Just don't get too upset if they don't give you a promotion right away. You've got a LOT of experience to learn ahead of you.

What software do you use for expense planning? Hyperion, Cognos, Business objects, Excel?

I sold planning software to various industries and implemented them internationally as well. I enjoyed marketing the software and configure the process / logic for the applications, but I'm very glad I don't do the grunt work of the planning.

Good luck.

 

[docjohn]

Well before you ask for more money/a promotion or any special benefits at work esp if you work within a group of similar age /and senority ,be self aware.Put your self in managements shoes,looking at you as objectively as possible.If you feel special treatment is deserved for you then with confidance ask away.The strategy could be modified if you are intending to leave sooner than later.I find that the younger generation of employees are much more likely to act on percieved feelings of acomplishment and sometimes over inflated feelings of personal value:wink: Sounds like you really have no significant risk in asking though.Most good companies,run by older folk have very strict and rigid guidelines/parameters for worker improvement,you really need them or else anarchy may take over.I have heard that companies run by younger gen xers are less rigid but the constant raise /promotion method also is somewhat of a smoke and mirror shell game.

 

[White98LS]

Thanks for your replies!

What software do you use for expense planning? Hyperion, Cognos, Business objects, Excel?

We use Essbase, Probe, and Clarity in order to connect our planners to Essbase. We have about 700 planners - it can be a handful!

I find that the younger generation of employees are much more likely to act on percieved feelings of acomplishment and sometimes over inflated feelings of personal value Sounds like you really have no significant risk in asking though.Most good companies,run by older folk have very strict and rigid guidelines/parameters for worker improvement,you really need them or else anarchy may take over.I have heard that companies run by younger gen xers are less rigid but the constant raise /promotion method also is somewhat of a smoke and mirror shell game.

It's true that my generation has a high sense of entitlement, and I'm trying to stay as objective as possible here. With this in mind, when I take over a system from a far more experienced person and improve it significantly in one year, with almost all positive feedback from all levels of management, and my boss gets promoted for it, I think I deserve some of that acclaim. Everyone else in my department is a Sr. Analyst and they all tell me there's no difference in the jobs we do.

As for the age/strictness of management, my boss is in her early-30s and was just promoted to VP, so I think she is more open than most to giving early-career recognition.

 

[nsxotic911]

Not for a second let "age" scare you. Your young years are the best time to capitalize on them. If you worked hard, had clear accomplishments, an feel that you performed equivalently to and/or can handle a SR position, by all means sell yourself and go for it.

If you have a "good" management or company, they will value the results and ambition and themselves seize the opportunity. You might be able to get a mentor or just work real close with your manger to ensure a smooth transition if they feel that you still need some assistance.
Any Bs and you should just walk.

I say that because I was in a similar position a number of years back in my early twenties where my then management did not promote me to a lead role because of "age," despite having been unequivocally more than qualified . I ended up eating the garbage and wasting a couple of years in my career and life....

My point is if you WANT to grow and want to learn and feel strongly that you deserve it, make the case.

If you don't or buy Bs and stay around anyway.. it sounds like you would be wasting time.

I've been at a large company ft for seven years from a fairly young age.. and having had many managers, I've been taught by my mentor, and have learned that first and foremost the most critical piece in your career - who can have a very positive or very negative impact/influence - is not you, but your manager. I ask myself this question: Does my manager empathize and will they themselves invest time and effort (not just words) in assisting me to achieve with my career goals or not?
If yes, I stay and work hard.
If not, then I don't expect any extra reward/promotions.... regardless of how hard I work.. Or don't work.. what I think and even what other people think.. It's the manager.

 

[steveny]

When should I ask for a promotion?

As soon as you are making the company more money than you were previously making them. As soon as you are putting out more product in an hour than you were previously doing.

Not after you have shown up everyday for a year putting out the same amount of product. Not after you only take a 15 minute break on your 15 minute break.

 

[White98LS]

Thanks everyone. I plan to ask for a promotion right after the Thanksgiving holiday, which is when my user surveys from expense planners are due back (~175 field planners and ~30 expense reps, a couple from each department area). So far the responses have been about 85% meets/exceeds expectations in all areas relating to my work... 100% so far in the service-related areas (response time in regards to answering their questions and resolving issues). I should mention that we've had high turnover recently (4 have left out of 10-12 people in my department in the last 3 months) so this should be a good time to put pressure on to keep good talent and stability intact.

My only question now is how to ask, how to phrase it. Obviously I'm new to this, and I'm struggling to figure out a way to ask for it that's not too self-righteous and cocky, but not leaning too far towards "asking" for it. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I don't want to come off badly... the delivery is important.

 

[tjobeid]

Just go in on Monday barge into the office and be like look$%^ i need a promotion NOW!!. .......Just kidding man.:tongue:
Anytime is a good time , the worst they can say is not we are sorry not at the moment.

 

[Synthesis]

I find that the younger generation of employees are much more likely to act on percieved feelings of acomplishment and sometimes over inflated feelings of personal value:wink:

probably because the value of the dollar went down like a mofo and salaries for the middle class never changed.

either way - i like where i'm at... i might not get paid as much as i want (i don't think anybody does....), but i have had excellent opportunities and experiences at my job, and i'm grateful for that...:smile:

 

[mickeylex]

I agree w/ the advice encouraging you to ask, but I also would balance your plans w/ the possibility of the asking not going well. Just think about the possible outcomes, both positive and negative before going in there.

Asking for more money early in a career can help set you up for higher income later. Don't let your younger age discourage you from asking, but as I've always told past employees "Be careful what you ask for, because you might get it". In your case, do you want a promotion or more money at this particular point in your career?

Here is my take:
You are asking for advice for a promotion. As a person who has hired lots of people in the past and run multi-million dollar budgets, I might not be ready to promote a 23 y/o employee who has less than 2yrs of work experience in this job. I might, however be willing to give you more money for your efforts now and watch you for the next 1-3 years to see if you are ready for your promotion. It doesn't matter that you are doing the job of a more senior employee; if you are not happy doing it, I'll get someone else. Unless your current job is Union represented, don't expect too much action on the part of your employer to move you to the next level "just because".

My advice is to be sure you want a promotion. If you are not sure, go in there and ask for recognition for your efforts (yes, ask, be humble but confident - you are not entitled). In that "recognition" discussion, you could talk about more money or a promotion as an option. Also, if you are asking for a promotion, be sure that means more money - sometimes a promotion is just another title.

One other bit of advice (well, two). 1. Don't always listen to the more senior employees when they tell you something. They may tell you "yeah, you deserve the promotion" only b/c they want to see you go ask for it and get knocked down. Less competition for them for the raise budget if you are not in the picture. I'm not saying don't go ask, just don't go blindly on their advice.
2. Find your "Trusted Advisors" at your workplace. These are the people you know and can trust at work who will help guide your career. They don't always have to be VP+ levels. They can be your level.

The discussion you are entering into RE: the promotion is a political discussion, not an HR one. These discussions are always political - make sure you have your facts, make sure the person you are talking with is likely to grant you your request and be sure to know when to shut up if needed.

 

[White98LS]

I agree w/ the advice encouraging you to ask, but I also would balance your plans w/ the possibility of the asking not going well. Just think about the possible outcomes, both positive and negative before going in there.

Asking for more money early in a career can help set you up for higher income later. Don't let your younger age discourage you from asking, but as I've always told past employees "Be careful what you ask for, because you might get it". In your case, do you want a promotion or more money at this particular point in your career?

Here is my take:
You are asking for advice for a promotion. As a person who has hired lots of people in the past and run multi-million dollar budgets, I might not be ready to promote a 23 y/o employee who has less than 2yrs of work experience in this job. I might, however be willing to give you more money for your efforts now and watch you for the next 1-3 years to see if you are ready for your promotion. It doesn't matter that you are doing the job of a more senior employee; if you are not happy doing it, I'll get someone else. Unless your current job is Union represented, don't expect too much action on the part of your employer to move you to the next level "just because".

My advice is to be sure you want a promotion. If you are not sure, go in there and ask for recognition for your efforts (yes, ask, be humble but confident - you are not entitled). In that "recognition" discussion, you could talk about more money or a promotion as an option. Also, if you are asking for a promotion, be sure that means more money - sometimes a promotion is just another title.

One other bit of advice (well, two). 1. Don't always listen to the more senior employees when they tell you something. They may tell you "yeah, you deserve the promotion" only b/c they want to see you go ask for it and get knocked down. Less competition for them for the raise budget if you are not in the picture. I'm not saying don't go ask, just don't go blindly on their advice.
2. Find your "Trusted Advisors" at your workplace. These are the people you know and can trust at work who will help guide your career. They don't always have to be VP+ levels. They can be your level.

The discussion you are entering into RE: the promotion is a political discussion, not an HR one. These discussions are always political - make sure you have your facts, make sure the person you are talking with is likely to grant you your request and be sure to know when to shut up if needed.

Thanks for the advice. About the other employees telling me I deserve a promotion, one is my buddy whose last day is tomorrow, another is someone my age who is already a Sr., and the other is an MBA intern. Little competition with any of them.

 

[mickeylex]

Oh, and I forgot to add in my previous post, Good Luck, I hope it goes well.

Reminds me of what my father told me growing up: "If you want something, ask for it".

 

[White98LS]

Oh, and I forgot to add in my previous post, Good Luck, I hope it goes well.

Reminds me of what my father told me growing up: "If you want something, ask for it".

Thanks, I'll post again in a week or two and tell what happened!

My friend whose last day is tomorrow talked with me again over lunch about it, and he said Seniors like him make about $20-25k more than what I'm making. Maybe I can stress to my boss that I'm not requesting THAT big of a raise, but a substantial one along with a more advanced title are more what I'm looking for.

 

[Nav]

when should you ask for a promotion? When you deserve one.

From the sounds of it, you were hit with a huge setback when the person left, and instead of cowering in the corner like most people, you hit the floor running, and succeeded.

Stay motivated, make sure your boss/seniors ALWAYS know that you are doing an amazing job, and ASK for the promotion.

Many companies will try to avoid offering a promotion hoping that the employee will stick around and be content.

Don't settle for it.

If you don't get the promotion, leave.

There are tons of companies out there that will pay you the money you deserve.


Like slownsxt said, your younger years are when you have to capitalize. Make the most of it. I worked for a senior manager that once told me to make sure you and your acheivements are visible to management, and to make a move every 1.5 - 2 years tops. (promotion every 1.5 - 2 years)

P.S. You are NEVER too young to ask for a promotion. Ask for what you have earned.

P.P.S. Screw the whole "what are others in your age group making" crap. Who cares? This is about you. If others in your age group are content with making decent money, and not asking for the raises/promotions that they deserve, that is their problem, not yours.

P.P.P.S. Some may not like what I am saying, and think that I am suggesting that you be cocky etc. but thats not the case. Promote yourself.

 

[NsXMas]

Nav - some good advice, and some bad advice. What industry are you in?

 

[BD]

Doesn't hurt to ask. If you feel comfortable with your position within the company and they value your service, they will probably give it to you. I most cases, they wouldn't do it until the person ask for it.

 

[Nav]

Nav - some good advice, and some bad advice. What industry are you in?

IT

 

[White98LS]

Alright, well I decided to ask for the promotion next Tuesday in a meeting with my boss. I have to rework my '07 goals with her because some of the more optimistic goals we set, we decided as a department to go a different route. This is the day after I turn in my report to her on our '08 planning feedback survey... 80-85% of responses are "Meets Expectations" or better, which is an improvement over the 4 years under the past employee I mentioned w/an MBA. I've been trying to think of how to phrase it and here is what I have so far:

"I am wondering what your thoughts are regarding a promotion. I feel I deserve one based on my performance and progress through this year's forecasting and planning rounds, as well as the positive feedback we have received from our customers, and was hoping to discuss this with you."

...and then go into more detail with concrete supporting facts on why I feel I should be given a promotion. Too pretentious? Too weak? I know I'm nitpicking, but I don't want to come off as having an inflated ego/self-worth -- or not being confident in myself and my accomplishments, either. I'd ask people I'm closer with than a web forum, but most of my friends are my age and haven't been in the position to ask for a promotion yet. All my family members and relatives are doctors/lawyers so they've never been in this situation, either. I'd really like to have a business mentor ultimately, but you guys will do for now (and the advice you do give me is always very helpful, insightful, and much appreciated!).:smile:

 

[quack]

Make sure the boss knows the meeting beforehand is about a raise/promotion. you don't want to catch anyone off guard and have them make additional meetings and take more time to get you your dough. Also this give them he or she time to go to Sr. Managment to know what they can work with, these days even the Man isn't the Man.

 

[sahtt]

A couple quick points-
a) It can hurt to ask. It depends on the relationship you have with your manager and how you end up coming accross when you ask for it. If your manager previously mentioned or company infrastructure already dictates how and when people move up in the company, it may not be wise to blatantly go against that. A guy I worked with in an oil service company asked for a promotion as if he was getting ripped off if he didn't get it. Sort of an "all or nothing" approach. He didn't get the raise and there was tension between them until he left 6 months later. Based on what you have provided us, it sounds like none of those apply.
b) I've never regretted asking for more $ but I have regretted not asking sooner. I consider it my responsibility to make sure I'm paid fairly. If my boss can get away with paying me less than that and I don't speak up, it's my fault. In most places in china they pay you less each year you work at the same company. The job market there is cut-throat and I think too many people in the U.S. tend to take salary changes as too out of their control, up or down.

 

[Big_D]

I would go for a raise and have less responsibility and headaches...promotions always come with higher expectations. Plus you get some animosity from your peers...

But I am not into Job Titles ...just $$$$

Best of Luck!

 

[White98LS]

Make sure the boss knows the meeting beforehand is about a raise/promotion. you don't want to catch anyone off guard

I was dreading popping the p-word unexpectedly, so maybe in my meeting invite I'll put something that hints at it but doesn't outright say it, such as, "Goal realignment and advancement opportunity." This way she knows I'm looking for some sort of recognition/promotion out of my performance, but that I want to stay with the company since I'm focusing on my goals.

A couple quick points-
a) It can hurt to ask. It depends on the relationship you have with your manager and how you end up coming accross when you ask for it. If your manager previously mentioned or company infrastructure already dictates how and when people move up in the company, it may not be wise to blatantly go against that. A guy I worked with in an oil service company asked for a promotion as if he was getting ripped off if he didn't get it. Sort of an "all or nothing" approach. He didn't get the raise and there was tension between them until he left 6 months later. Based on what you have provided us, it sounds like none of those apply.

I have a pretty good relationship with my boss. We are friendly and personal with each other, and she makes it known that I am very important to the process and have elevated the quality and ease of the process by a long way. This promotion would be in keeping with that praise and regard, so I think I'm in good shape and I won't be like, "screw this!" if I don't get the promotion right now. Now, if I also don't get a generous raise at my review time in March, THEN I'd be out ASAP.

I would go for a raise and have less responsibility and headaches...promotions always come with higher expectations. Plus you get some animosity from your peers...

But I am not into Job Titles ...just $$$$

Best of Luck!

The thing is, I want the title more than the money. I'd gladly take the title with an 8-10% raise. I will be applying to jobs to gain some different experience in the summer before applying to business school in fall '08. A promotion to Sr. will help me a lot more with both than having xx% higher pay for a few months.

 

[robr]

You can always put "Sr." on your resume, whether it's true or not. It almost certainly wouldn't be questioned by a potential new employer and even if you didn't have that "senior" in your official title, it's easy enough to claim you were the senior person in your group. Unfortunately just about EVERYBODY exaggerates on their resume, as a hiring manager, I have come to expect that and am more interested in what the person has done and what they're capable of rather than their previous job titles. When I worked at a bank, I was SURROUNDED by AVPs (asst. vice pres) in a technical group that were far inferior in ability to me (my title at the time was the generic "systems analyst").
Titles aren't worth squat, take the $$$ as long as you're getting the experiences you want to put on your resume.

 

[Big_D]

You can always put "Sr." on your resume, whether it's true or not. It almost certainly wouldn't be questioned by a potential new employer and even if you didn't have that "senior" in your official title, it's easy enough to claim you were the senior person in your group. Unfortunately just about EVERYBODY exaggerates on their resume, as a hiring manager, I have come to expect that and am more interested in what the person has done and what they're capable of rather than their previous job titles. When I worked at a bank, I was SURROUNDED by AVPs (asst. vice pres) in a technical group that were far inferior in ability to me (my title at the time was the generic "systems analyst").
Titles aren't worth squat, take the $$$ as long as you're getting the experiences you want to put on your resume.

+1

Titles are only good for picking up chicks...ha ha

 

[mickeylex]

+1

Titles are only good for picking up chicks...ha ha

+2

As a former hiring manager, I didn't care what title a person had coming into the job. All I wanted to know about was their experience and/or their ability to get the job done. Higher titles tell me that someone is experienced w/ office politics more than anything else.

For you, go w/ your gut on what you want to do. Either way, it will be a learing experience this early in your career.