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Working with carbon fiber

Joined
24 August 2005
Messages
333
Location
NW Florida
I just ordered a couple of books off of Amazon about manufacturing and working with carbon fiber, now I just have to wait for them to come in. I was wondering if anyone on here has any experience working with CF. I've worked on aircraft that are 90% CF, but I never really got with the structures guys to learn about the composites. All I remember is anytime there was a repair they had to do a layup and then put it under a vacume for a period of time.

Just looking for some tid-bits of info if anyone has some to share.

Thanks
Jason
 
ALWAYS wear lung protection. Gloves (vinyl, not latex) too, both for the CF itself, and for the epoxy. Prolonged exposure to epoxy can cause all kinds of health problems, and is a cumulative allergin. You could work with it for years, then all of a sudden, any exposure will set of an allergic reaction. I know guys that manufactured CF & 'glass RC planes who cannot even get into a room with epoxy fumes now.


Vaccum bagging against a mold is the usual mode of making parts with non-prepreg CF. Get a book on 'bagging from CST or another vendor like West systems epoxies. There are also quite a few good DVD titles on doing layups & 'bagging. Model airplane hobbiests use the crap out of CF & 'glass, and have generally figured out the least PIA & expensive techniques.

In a nutshell, one does a layup consisting of alternating layers of CF, with epoxy squeegied onto each layer. The layups are placed over each other on a bias to get the most strength.

On flat parts, the layups are done on a mylar skin, then laid over the well waxed plug (Male mold) covered with a layer of something that will soak up the excess epoxy that gets vacuumed out, and then with a layer of breather cloth that allows the vacuum to be distributed across the part.

Then it is placed into a large airtight bag and drawn down with vacuum. This gives maybe 5-9 PSI across the layup, forcing it to conform to the mold.

There is also a way to do a female mold, of course. A little more complicated, but anyone with a clean garage and workbench (And vacuum bagging setup) can use both techniques, and come up with all kinds of parts like air dams, instrument bezels, whatever.
 
Thanks for the safety tips. I do remember there being lots of safety reqs for the guys doing the composite repairs. That is bad stuff if it gets under your skin, or if it burns and you breath in the smoke.

So are the methods used by the model builders basically the same as what is used in say aircraft industry? Do the model guys achieve the same wieght to strength ratio?

I hate having to wait for the books to show up, but since I am in Iraq right now I can't exactly go to Books A Million and pick them up. When they get here though it will give me something to do with my spare time. So I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me in the mean time.

Jason
 
CF is CF, generally speaking. As long as the layup is done well, it gives the same strength for the same amount of materials. RC planes are akin to NSX's: Expensive to get the best.

It is not uncommon to spend several thousand dollars on some CF laminate gliders, that can have a top speed somewhere in the 200+mph range. Pretty stinking strong.

OTOH, To much epoxy or two little both can cause flaws. Too much epoxy gives extra weight without extra strength, and to little will give a "dry" layup, cause de-laminations etc...

Then there is the question of which cloth to use. There are all kinds of weaves, and the choice depends on the shape and intended function of your part.

Here's a site that demonstrates the technique for 'bagging a 'glass wing. Substitute CF for the 'glass, and say a dash panel for the wing shape, and you can get a good idea of how it's done.

http://www.pilotsguide.com/rc/vacbag.shtml

Here's another slightly more technical site:

http://www.fibreglast.com/contentpa...echniques for Room-Temp Applications-230.html


Also, I should point out that the techniques vary depending on if you are protyping (a one off piece) or gearing up to make a bunch of copies. If I was going to make a spoiler for my own car I would do something completely different than if I was planning on making spoilers for a hundred cars.
 
Hugh said:
Females are complicated creatures. I guess it doesn't matter whether they are human or carbon fiber. :)

That's hilarious Hugh, and an excellent point :biggrin: probably shouldn't even get into the pro's and con's of each....:eek:
 
53heloFE said:
That's hilarious Hugh, and an excellent point :biggrin: probably shouldn't even get into the pro's and con's of each....:eek:

I wouldn't go so far as suggesting one wear vinyl gloves with females...unless she asks nicely.
 
lrsudog said:
I wouldn't go so far as suggesting one wear vinyl gloves with females...unless she asks nicely.

Some are allergic to latex:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
 
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