Yellow NSX Crash on Palomar Drive (Part II) JH4NA2169YT000265

[blurr]

OK, this is what happened...

Basically, I was on S7 in California along with several other people and as I came up to the corner that I lost the car on the car didn't want to slow down much at all. I applied the brakes and as soon as I did I knew we were not going to make the turn cleanly. I slid for a split second just enough where as I turned I got 2 wheels off the road onto the gravel shoulder. I tried giving the car gas to slide through the turn but that didn't really do anything. (it works in autocross) It was to late and I was spinning. I am not sure why I didn't slow down very much. The road was very gravely, it was hot and I had been using the brakes a lot. From the feel of the car when I first applied the brakes I would say I just happen to be on a patch gravel. I was in 2nd gear and not in vtec, so I am guess I was somewhere around 45mph when I started braking.

I did a 180 and rolled down the hill backwards at an angle. Basically strait down at the angle from the last crash picture. When my left rear wheel hit the ground it dug in and I rolled over rocking back and forth a few times. My first thought was that I had to turn off the car but I couldn't reach the keys. Then I thought if I just take my foot off the clutch it will stall. I then tried opening the door, but that wasn't happening so I pushed the seatbelt button and fell on my head. I kicked the door a few times but it wouldn't open so I tried the window and sure enough it rolled up. I found out if the passenger was hurt, he wasn't, so I popped his seatbelt and we climbed out of the window.

By this time one of the other guys was running down the hill asking of we were ok. I can only imagine what he thought he would find. =(

So, my car can now be added to the list of totaled cars. 2000-T #265. The insurance payoff is very fair. I haven't decided what I will do now. If I decide on another NSX (my first car choice still) I will wait to see just exactly what is announced in October at the Tokyo motor show. The only other car I am even interested in at this price point is a Lotus Exige made street legal with the Type-R parts but I don't really know what all the hidden costs are in bringing a non street legal car into the US for conversion.

Pictures again:

[This message has been edited by blurr (edited 29 August 2001).]

 

[johndoh]

Wow. That roof held up pretty well for that rollover. Very impressed. Do you think the damage would have been different if the Targa was off?

[This message has been edited by johndoh (edited 29 August 2001).]

 

[ilya]

What I find strange is how the wheels are so far out of the wheel wells while the car is upside down. When you lift up a car on a lift or jacks, the wheels obviously hang down. Is there some part of physics I am missing here. The car is upside down, yet the wheels look like they are hanging upwards. How does that work?

Any news on a good resolution for you?

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 29 August 2001).]

 

[thedavegw]

I have a guess on why the wheels extend. When the car is on the road it puts pressure on the wheels compressing the suspension, without the weight of the car on them the wheels would extend out from the car regardless of whether they face up or down.

 

[SNDSOUL]

Originally posted by ilya:
What I find strange is how the wheels are so far out of the wheel wells while the car is upside down. When you lift up a car on a lift or jacks, the wheels obviously hang down. Is there some part of physics I am missing here. The car is upside down, yet the wheels look like they are hanging upwards. How does that work?

Any news on a good resolution for you?

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 29 August 2001).]

I wondered the same thing at first and then remembered that the coil springs are compressed when the car is sitting right side up so when the car is upside down they are released and push the tires upward.

 

[blurr]

Originally posted by SNDSOUL:
I wondered the same thing at first and then remembered that the coil springs are compressed when the car is sitting right side up so when the car is upside down they are released and push the tires upward.

WE had the same thoughts about the wheels and suspension while we waited for the tow truck to arrive.

 

[DocL]

I'm glad to hear that no one was injured in your accident. I'm quite surprised at how well the targa did sitting upside down. It doesn't look as though the damage was too bad. Did they offer to repair the car? I would think that the repairs would be routine except for the passenger side "B" pillar.

Well, the most important thing is that you are ok. Cars can be replaced, lives cannot.

 

[steveny]

Whats the buyout price from your insurance company?

 

[maomaonsx]

Has any vulture like me approach you yet? I'm interested in the motor and tranny.
cheer up, it's only a car. (easy for me to say)

------------------
George Wang
Keep it Real!
http://www.geocities.com/maomaonsx/price.html

 

[sjs]

I too am interested in the buyout price. Better that someone honest gets it for a track car, like me!

 

[steveny]

hey now i asked first get in line gentlemen

 

[DocL]

Originally posted by steveny:
hey now i asked first get in line gentlemen

Ok, I'm second in line!

 

[blurr]

Originally posted by maomaonsx:
Has any vulture like me approach you yet? I'm interested in the motor and tranny.
cheer up, it's only a car. (easy for me to say)

Vultures are welcome. I have not decided if I want to buy it back and turn it into a race car or part it out yet. If I can immediatly sell off enough parts to break even on the buy back I would be very tempted to go that route.

Anyone interested in the car or parts just e-mail me. you will find my address under profiles.

-matt

[This message has been edited by blurr (edited 29 August 2001).]

 

[Lud]

Sorry about the accident, but I'm glad to hear nobody was hurt!

The story of how it happened sounds all too typical unfortunately. You mentioned lack of braking. It's pretty unlikely you overheated the brakes on the street unless you were really cooking down a steep, long mountain. I would guess you are correct that it was the gravel. ABS is absolutely terrible on gravel on pavement.

The B pillar area obviously took the brunt of the impact, and it sounds like a very light rollover to begin with. That is why there is so little damage. The B pillar area is extremely strong. If the A pillars took the force it would have looked much worse.

All the vultures interesting in rebuilding it, just know that you are going to have to cut off the entire B pillar section as though you were making it a convertible (possibly the A pillar section as well if it's bent), then weld on a replacement. This is likely to be quite expensive and you will need a shop that really knows how to weld aluminum properly.

All the rest of the damage looks relatively minor and straight forward to repair, though some will be expensive (go price a new targa top panel). I'd also carefully inspect the left rear suspension since it bore the stress of flipping the car over. Keep in mind that the insurance company wouldn't have totalled the car if they thought they could make it like new for not a lot of money.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 30 August 2001).]

 

[justin hall]

Originally posted by ilya:
What I find strange is how the wheels are so far out of the wheel wells while the car is upside down. When you lift up a car on a lift or jacks, the wheels obviously hang down. Is there some part of physics I am missing here. The car is upside down, yet the wheels look like they are hanging upwards. How does that work?

The car weighs much more than the wheels. The springs / shocks support 3000 lbs when the car is on the wheels. With the car on its roof the weight supported is much less, which is why they are not compressed.

 

[justin hall]

guess I should have read the whole thread before I responded. asked and answered. sorry bout that.

 

[Ag NSX]

Would this car be a good candidate to become just a convertible NSX? Wouldn't that be cheaper than repairing the roof? How about just cutting the B-pillar at the door handle, repairing the A-pillar and reinforcing the frame. Forget buying a new rear hatch, window, t-top. Make it a true convertible with no roof.

 

[Lud]

If you were going to do a convertible anyway, sure... But I don't think I'd ever recommend making one a convertible. JMO.

 

[Graham McMinn]

Yes I think the convertible would be big job for someone who wishes to retain chassis integrity. I remember reading the story of Senna's ongoing testing of the car and he kept insisting on more chassis stiffness.I think there was a lot of trial of different bits and pieces of design to achieve the end result. Once you remove the roof you start again. There have been some done though right? - guess it just depends on your requirements performance wise.
Oh, and Ayrton , thanks from all of us if you're looking in.

 

[steveny]

I would think that the car would need no frame support. Seeing as how it is a targa in the first place the support should be there. I think I have located a complete roof for 6300.00 with back glass and targa panel. The guy selling is not sure if he wants to split the car up.

 

[nsxtasy]

I would think that the car would need no frame support.

You would inevitably lose lateral rigidity, and to a lesser extent torsional rigidity, that is provided by the b-pillar "hoop" on the NSX-T.

As the song goes: Shake, rattle and roll!

 

[Lud]

The targa reinforcements are in place for a targa, not a full convertible with no B pillar connection - which other than the frame rails is probably the strongest part of the car. I've ridden in both a targa conversion and a convertible conversion. The convertible conversion was very noticably worse for rigidity than the targa conversion. Both were done by the same company.

Good luck if you pursue the rebuild. I saw you said somewhere else that you have rebuilt a number of cars so I'm sure you know what you are doing.

 

[blurr]

Hey guys.

OK, here is the deal. The insurance company gave me a buy back price of $25,000. Knowing this if anyone wants the car just send me an offer via e-mail and we can discuss it. I figured I would give everyone here the chance to get this car before the salvage yards got a hold of it and upped the price even more. I have found a few NSX's at salvage yards and they are asking ('97 with the front end gone) a lot more than 25k. I will check when I get home tonight exactly what the salvage yards were asking for NSX's.

I have to decide to buy it back or not within the week so If you are interested let me know ASAP.

-matt

 

[Ben]

How are the roof, b-pillar, and a-pillar welded on? What's the feasability of finding a wrecked or stripped coupe, and trasplanting the roof, b-pillars, and a-pillars to get a coupe, which, if done right by the right people, could be stiffer than the original.

-Ben

 

[blurr]

Originally posted by Ben:
How are the roof, b-pillar, and a-pillar welded on? What's the feasability of finding a wrecked or stripped coupe, and trasplanting the roof, b-pillars, and a-pillars to get a coupe, which, if done right by the right people, could be stiffer than the original.

-Ben

Hmm I hadn't even thought of that. Would be very interesting if that was possible. Even new parts from Honda are cheaper if you turned it into a coupe.

You can find prices at: http://members.aol.com/nsxparts/

Roof: http://members.aol.com/berniedcat/page8.html

Pillars: http://members.aol.com/berniedcat/page4.html



[This message has been edited by blurr (edited 01 September 2001).]