Another tire question

[David]

I just got the rules for Sport Compact Car's 'Ultimate Street Car
Challenge' and the tire restrictions pose a dilemma. I have to use
the exact same type of tire for all events and they have to be DOT
legal. So, that means auto-x, hot laps at Willow Springs, slalom and
drag. Plus, several hundred miles on the highway between events. I
can use as many tires as I want, as long as they are the same type.

So, do I go with something like Hoosier DOT radials, say A3S03s or
R3S03s or stay with my true street tires? Will the Hoosiers hold up
under a couple hundred miles of highway travel? What about Kumhos?

Since we can take extra tires of the same type, I figure if I go with
the Hoosiers, I can get two extra rears and soak them in VHT for the
drag portion.

Any thoughts/opinions are appriciated.

 

[nsxtasy]

If you're serious about winning, then go for the track tires. I'm not sure if the Hoosiers would last a couple hundred highway miles; I would guess yes, but that's only a guess.

If you're willing to trash a couple of tires in order to find out, you could do a test between now and the actual event; throw a couple of Hoosiers on the rear and drive a hundred miles somewhere and then back, checking the tires from time to time (and keeping a couple of other tires as spares inside the car in case they get down to the belts before you return). Just an idea.

 

[justin hall]

so you dont have the ability to switch tires BETWEEN events for the highway portions?

from the feedback I have received from others, the hoosiers can hold up if you are very careful with cracks / potholes, etc. are you familiar with the roads? if not, you might be better off with the kuhmo's.

I only have 100 miles on my hoosiers, but all california (bad) freeways. I did not have a problem, but some would say I got lucky.

 

[Lud]

This is really a strategy decision as much as a tire decision.

Are the points weighted evenly for each part of the event? How do you think you stack up against competition in each segment? Are there segments you may not be competitive in? If so, write them off and focus on winning the rest. Are there segments that you MUST win and the difference may come down to tires? How are points assigned based on the results of an event? You really need to know this and consider it in the context of your competition before you can make a final decision.

Drag radials do not really seem like much of an option if you have to go to the road course. The sidewalls are too soft and they are the one tire that may actually burn up during a day of driving at a road course. Forgoing drag radials will hurt your drag time but also reduce the change of breaking an axle or blowing your clutch or something. DNF is worse than +.3 seconds.

Auto-x tires are also OK and get up to optimum temperature really fast (consider how short an auto-x is!), but overall I don't think they are your best bet for the rest of the event.

Hoosier road race slicks have enough traction that they can do everything OK and the road course really well. If it is a one-day track event, there is almost no conceivable way to burn a fresh set of Hoosiers to undriveable status. Since you can bring spares, the mileage is not your real concern as you can mount new ones for the track event itself.

But consider the highway surface conditions. Hoosiers do not like bad road surfaces or debris and are really delicate in that respect. Going off-track is also much more likely to result in a trashed tire with the Hoosiers.

The other killer will be rain during an event, unless they plan to postpone in case of rain. Hoosier slicks are basically unusable in the wet. Especially with 500+ RWHP!

If you have to run rain or shine, you can either bet the bank on the weather or move back toward a more street-like tire. In that case, the Yoko A032R may be a good choice if you can get the sizes you need. You will absolutely not wear the A032Rs out in a single event no matter how hard you drive even if it's 500 miles away, and they are also surprisingly good in the rain. I've also heard good things about the Kumhos but have not tried them.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 24 July 2001).]

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Since you are driving long distances, I think the Hoosiers are not a good option. For the hassle that an R compound tire will create, I think you are better off this a very sticky street tire such as the Pole Position S03.

Remember that the only 18" R compound tire available now is from Hoosier. If you can wait awhile Kumho will have their new R compound street/track tire available from TireRack with in a month.

-- Chris


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[David]

Originally posted by Lud:
This is really a strategy decision as much as a tire decision.

This is also my thinking. I don't have the full rules package yet, but I believe the events are pretty evenly weighted. So, you have to do reasonably well in all of them to stay competitive.

That is part of what has me leaning towards the R compound tires. They would be good for everything but the drag portion, and I can deal with that. If I smoke them up, drop the pressure and use VHT, they won't work like wrinkle walls, but they should do pretty well.

My only concern is the highway durability.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

On the last Grassroot motorspot magazine, there is article comparing track tires. amazingly the Kumho (shaved)is as fast as the Hoosier, but the trick is to get the correct pressure.

 

[nsxtasy]

Hi David,

Justin's question aroused my curiosity, and I hope you don't mind if I rephrase it.

Based on what you said, you have to use the same kind of tire for all the events... and it sounds like you have to use the same kind of tire on the highway in between the events. This seems strange, because I wouldn't think they would care what tire you use in traveling from one of the events to another. So... I think Justin was just checking to confirm that you're prohibited from switching to a street tire to get from one event to the next, and there switching back to the track tires you would use at all the track events.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 24 July 2001).]

 

[David]

Originally posted by justin hall:
so you dont have the ability to switch tires BETWEEN events for the highway portions?.

I will have to check for sure, but I believe you have to use the same tires for everything. They have the drive up the coast to help keep the participants firmly in the 'street car' category and weed out the 'street legal' cars.

Even if I could swap tires, I only have one full set of wheels and don't have the $ to get another. I have custom sizes, so it would take a while to get another set of wheels anyway.

 

[justin hall]

Originally posted by David:
...Even if I could swap tires, I only have one full set of wheels and don't have the $ to get another. I have custom sizes, so it would take a while to get another set of wheels anyway.

With that said, if you know the road to be good it might be worth taking a chance on the hoosiers. I know people that drive back and forth between auto-x's and home all last year without an issue. probably about 500 total road miles + the actual events all on one set of hoosiers. I imagine you probably have 18" rear wheels, so that rules out the yoko's and just about any other r suggestion. if you dont do the hoosiers, you might as well get the so3's as chris suggests.

 

[ANYTIME]

Would it be possible to contact the wheel (and or tire)manufacturer to see if they would sponsor you in some way? (for a plug of there product) Hey, it couldn't hurt to ask, who knows. I've been suprised at how many things I sponsor thru my business.

 

[dswartz]

David,

I've used Pirelli P-Zero-C R compund tires. I have about 1000 miles with no appreciable wear. I use them for autocross and have also used them on the drag strip. If you really heat them up, you can launch them pretty hard. Drag radials only gave me about a .15 second better 60' foot time, which is not significant enough to worry about. However, the drag radials may be better (believe it or not) on an auto cross course because they heat up much faster than road race tires. I know someone who did a similar event that included drag racing and autocrossing and won using drag radials. However, the R compund are significantly better on the road course.

So, if the size is available, I would go with the Pirelli's.

 

[David]

Where did you get the R compound Pirellis? I will look into it. If they don't have my size, I'll just go with the Hoosiers.

 

[nsxtasy]

They're not easy to find. The FAQ refers to Bob Woodman Tires as a source, but on the Woodman website it says that they're not currently available. Hmmm...

 

[dswartz]

David,

I got the pirelli's at a local tire store in New Jersey who carries high performance tires. Depending on the size, however, they may not be available in this country.

By the way, they are the smoothest riding and quietest tires I've ever driven. Also, they're good in the rain.

I bought them at Euro-tire, (973) 575-0080. I think they can ship anywhere in the country. They cost $860 four 4 tires (2 225x45x16 and 2 255x40x17).


[This message has been edited by dswartz (edited 25 July 2001).]

[This message has been edited by dswartz (edited 25 July 2001).]