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Big night of fights tonight - Margarito, Roy Jones, and Butterbean!

TurboLexus

TurboLexus

Experienced Member
Joined
20 January 2004
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722
Great all-welterweight card on HBO tonight, Gatti vs Alfonso Gomez from the Contender (picked Gatti on experience alone), Antonio Margarito vs Paul Williams (tough call but I picked Margarito, we'll see), and Kermit Cintron vs Walter Matthysse (Cintron). If you follow MMA, Cintron called out LW champ Sean Sherk. Roy Jones' 'comeback' is tonight too. As for MMA...BodogFight in Jersery. Eddie Alvarez vs Matt Lee (picked Alvarez), Amar Suloev vs Chael Sonnen (picked Suloev), Branden Lee Hinkle vs Roman Zentsov (Zentsov on this one), Yuki Kondo vs Trevor Prangley (Prangley), and Yves Edwards vs Jorge Masvidal (one of Kimbo's guys...Yves is incredible and will end this fight). Oh, spoiler coming - Cage Rage 22 was last night, Sperry won, Bean lost, the megapunk got KTFO'd (again) in like 10 seconds by a last second replacement for the last minute replacement. This guy could K.O. himself rolling over in bed. Time to go back to debt-collecting James :smile: . I'm on a long streak as far as my picks go, we'll see if it continues tonight.
 
Roy Jones Jr. is my hero. I think it's ridiculous when people say he's cocky and arrogant so they don't like him. They obviously don't understand the boxing mentality. The greats don't come into a ring thinking "I might lose to this guy." Ali is adored and you want to talk about cocky and arrogant. But I hope RJJ wins tonight and can achieve what he wants with the P4P status although unlikely. I found this thread on Sherdog about RJJ on MMA.

"I watch it all the time. They have the best fighters fighting the best fighters and that's what boxing needs. You never can tell what will happen in a fight. Look at the last [Chuck] Liddell fight. Bam, 10 seconds it was over. They got that explosion they were waiting for. Boxing didn't get the same explosion out of Mayweather-De La Hoya," Jones said.

"UFC is a great thing, but boxing has to get on it's a game. UFC is the best fighting the best and that what boxing has to do. If you are an ultimate fighter, you are going to fight someone who is going to fight. In UFC, if you lose to a good fighter, you lost, you still know you are good fighter, and you come back the next day and fight again. In boxing, if you lose and that's it. You are done.I lose a few fights they want to tell me I'm washed up and I don't have it no more."

Jones was realistic when asked about his chances in a UFC ring. He knows that he is vulnerable on the ground and possesses a clear advantage if the fight stays on top.

"Now, I can't get on the ground and start wresting because I know nothing about that. But if I hit him before he gets to the ground, he's not going to get up and have the chance to wrestle," Jones said.
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It's funny though that MMA sometimes degrades itself to be bad boxing. Chuck Liddell is case and point a bad boxer. He would die at the handspeed and power in standup with RJJ or even little Floyd. I would still pay to see Mike Tyson in a special rules MMA match. :) Kimbo Slice is a lot of fun to watch, too and he's making headway into MMA under the tutorage of Bas Rutten...
 
pvmike said:
How about Tyson/Kimbo? I'd pay to see that.
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I'd pay to see that. Or how about a human vs a male baboon?

This is pretty exciting too:

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Well, it wasn't a big night for Margarito, that's for sure. And I hate it when boxers whine about being robbed by the judges after a lackluster performance, especially when they already have the deck stacked in their favor by homestate judges in their own home town. I'm not a fan (either way) of either Margarito or Williams, but Williams sure was piling up points, not only by being busy, but by being accurate. My scorecard agreed with the two California judges, 115-113 for Williams.

Gomez sure was impressive with his accuracy, too. And I agree with Larry Hazzard that the judge let that fight go on way too long, he should have put a stop to it much sooner. First time I've seen a boxing commissioner jump into the ring to overrule a judge's apparent incompetence. Although Randy Newman is a very experienced judge (a good singer too :wink: ); I think he just let Arturo's reputation get the better of his judgment.

As for the Cintron fight, what can you say when the fight is stopped that early? He almost had a first round knockout, and the first minute of the second round is almost as good.

The really interesting news coming out of tonight's fights was announced at the end, with reports of De La Hoya's desire to fight again as a welterweight. Which also pulls Mayweather back to welterweight, too. (Nothing like $150,000,000 to act as an incentive, huh?) This really mixes up the picture in a weight division already overflowing with talent. This division is where the best action should be in the next couple of years.

Roy Jones Jr. was a great fighter for a long time, and fought some memorable fights. I remember one fight against a very good contender, not just some schmo, yet he swept it 120-108 on all three scorecards. But his time has past. Jones, Holyfield, Tyson, and a few others should have known when to retire. They were great. Were. Now they're little more than a joke.
 
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

That second kangaroo video is the funniest thing i've seen in a while!!!!!!
 
nsxtasy said:
Well, it wasn't a big night for Margarito, that's for sure. And I hate it when boxers whine about being robbed by the judges after a lackluster performance, especially when they already have the deck stacked in their favor by homestate judges in their own home town. I'm not a fan (either way) of either Margarito or Williams, but Williams sure was piling up points, not only by being busy, but by being accurate. My scorecard agreed with the two California judges, 115-113 for Williams.

Gomez sure was impressive with his accuracy, too. And I agree with Larry Hazzard that the judge let that fight go on way too long, he should have put a stop to it much sooner. First time I've seen a boxing commissioner jump into the ring to overrule a judge's apparent incompetence. Although Randy Newman is a very experienced judge (a good singer too :wink: ); I think he just let Arturo's reputation get the better of his judgment.

As for the Cintron fight, what can you say when the fight is stopped that early? He almost had a first round knockout, and the first minute of the second round is almost as good.

The really interesting news coming out of tonight's fights was announced at the end, with reports of De La Hoya's desire to fight again as a welterweight. Which also pulls Mayweather back to welterweight, too. (Nothing like $150,000,000 to act as an incentive, huh?) This really mixes up the picture in a weight division already overflowing with talent. This division is where the best action should be in the next couple of years.

Roy Jones Jr. was a great fighter for a long time, and fought some memorable fights. I remember one fight against a very good contender, not just some schmo, yet he swept it 120-108 on all three scorecards. But his time has past. Jones, Holyfield, Tyson, and a few others should have known when to retire. They were great. Were. Now they're little more than a joke.
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Yeah!! My man Paul Williams comming through. He's my favourite fighter since the one and only Diego "chico" Corrales passed away. Chico was by far my favourite.. I only wish Paul had the power behind his punches the way Chico did, if he did I think he'd have a shot to be one of the best ever at least in that division...
 
I watched the fights (minus Roy Jones) and this is the 3rd time for me to see Paul Williams fight.

I have a question for you boxing fans. Is it fair for someone like Paul Williams to be fighting in the welterweight division? I ask this because he has such a big size advantage. He weighed 17 lbs more than the weigh in weight of 146 and if you combine that with his height (6'1"), who would want to fight him?
Sure, he has no punching power but when he's constantly throwing more than 100 punches a round, it'll be hard for anyone to beat him in the 146lb weight class.
 
Matt_337 said:
I have a question for you boxing fans. Is it fair for someone like Paul Williams to be fighting in the welterweight division? I ask this because he has such a big size advantage.
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I think so. Boxing is organized by weight classes. And, while Paul Williams has a height advantage over other welterweights, that doesn't mean a size advantage. In fact, you might find that a shorter fighter packs more power in his punches.

Remember the four criteria for scoring a fight:

a) effective aggression
b) defense
c) ring generalship
d) clean and hard punching.

This makes it easy to see why Williams won his fight. He kept busy and his punching was accurate (clean punching) and he was controlling the fight (ring generalship). Margarito wasn't really doing much of anything for the first half of the fight, and let Williams build up points on the scorecards. I don't think you can necessarily conclude that the other top welterweights would do that. In fact, it's ironic, because Margarito is usually an extremely busy fighter. (You probably heard that he set the Punchstat record for a 12-round fight, with 1500+ punches.) Again, the points don't necessarily go to the busier fighter, but rather, the one who scores the more effective punches. In this case, Williams was both.

Matt_337 said:
He weighed 17 lbs more than the weigh in weight of 146 and if you combine that with his height (6'1"), who would want to fight him?

Sure, he has no punching power but when he's constantly throwing more than 100 punches a round, it'll be hard for anyone to beat him in the 146lb weight class.
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I think you answered your own question. Who would want to fight him? Anyone with punching power, with the ability to land power punches, and with either a great chin or enough defense to block his flurries. I think Williams would have a very tough time against Mayweather, de la Hoya, Mosley, Cotto, or Cintron.

I've seen some absolutely dominant, awesome fighters over the years, including the previously-mentioned Roy Jones Jr. and Mike Tyson, early in his career, guys who looked like they were just toying with the other fighter. Williams didn't look that dominant. If he had lost the twelfth round, he would not have won the fight. I think the final decision made more of a statement about Margarito's effort than about Williams.
 
Ken you're a regular Harold Lederman :smile: . I was pretty disapointed w/ Margarito, as you said he's normally very busy...but Williams kept that jab in his face the whole time, Tony really didn't have much chance to sit down on his punches and generate the power needed to put him away. As for a size advantage and putting on alot of lbs after the weigh-in...just look at wrestling and MMA. Some guys cut 30 lbs and rehydrate alot of it back on before fight time, not that it's good for your body of course. If Williams had real power he would be somethin' else...but yeah he's no Chico Corrales. That Cintron KO was outta sight though. Oh, and Ken...Holyfield, RJJ, and Tyson little more than a joke now? We don't disagree too often but that is harsh brother. I was also one of the ppl who said Holyfield should just end it and lamp around in his 35-room mansion, but he has aquitted himself somewhat with this latest comeback (old and creaky Lou Savarese notwithstanding). As for Tyson? He may not 'have it' anymore, but truth be told he has fallen short every time he had a chance at everlasting greatness (yes i've seen virtually all of his early fights). Still wouldn't consider him anything close to a joke though. RJJ...now there's a guy who retains more talent at 35 than virtually every other guy out there, in their prime or not. I believe the reflexes and most of the speed is still there, and this is a guy that feels he needs to further cement his legacy before hanging up the gloves. I for one am behind him all the way, especially since I've been watching him fight nobody's for the last ten years (Ruiz included) and would love to see him take out Hopkins before they both re-retire. Oh, and I want to see more Calzaghe before he's done too.
 
Well, Holyfield was the heavyweight champ, and I just can't see him beating the best of the big guys right now. I think he would be embarrassed if he got into a ring against Vladimir Klitschko, for example (who, BTW, seems to have finally made a case for the best heavyweight in the ring today, the first to do so since Lennox Lewis's retirement). And I don't think a fight like that would be made. He reminds me of George Foreman at the end of his career, just in it for the money and just doing enough to stay standing up, nothing like the best heavyweights around.

Similarly, as you note, Tyson has fallen short way too many times (in all sorts of ways) to be put up against the best heavyweight talent out there. He just can't be trusted. He's like Andrew Golata; what manager in his right mind would stake his reputation on putting him in the ring?

As for Roy Jones Jr., first of all, he's 38, not 35. He hasn't fought a top-ranked fighter since the third Tarver fight, almost two years ago, and he hasn't beaten a top-ranked fighter since the first Tarver fight, almost four years ago. Maybe he's not a joke, but it's been a long time since we've really seen him as anything other than a shadow of his former pound-for-pound supremacy. Maybe he'll have a chance to prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

Speaking of Harold Lederman, I've noticed that in some of his recent fights, his scorecard has differed significantly (as much as four or more points) from the official judges (and occasionally Larry Merchant, too). (FWIW, in those instances, I've found myself usually agreeing with the official judges rather than Harold.) He used to be a lot more accurate as a predictor of how the fight would be scored officially, rarely differing by more than a point, occasionally two, from all three judges.
 
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NSX-GUY, I thought it was pathetic that Prime members were inferring that I made all that up with no reason to do so, that's why I never posted an update. I've now been on Prime a few yrs and have earned respect and trust, we have a great crew here. Some ppl have different experiences here in NY than others do. Suffice to say that big guys always want to step to me. Like Stephan Bonnar said...'I guess I just have punch appeal' :smile: , I grew up with boxing and MMA so they usually find out the hard way, but I think it's rediculous that i've had so many fights...I just hate bullies and probably don't diffuse a situation when I could. BTW I had someone check on that dealer, turns out the svc mgr had been to jail several times. I found a talented tech after that incident, he's worked on both my NSX's and I followed him when he left for another shop. What made you think of that old thread?

Ken, fun debating you man. Golota? The nutcruncher should never have had anything more than an amateur career, he's the best example of a boxer who's one step away from a joke. We can agree on that one. Yeah, Holyfield can't beat the top guys anymore, and I do not exactly consider Klitchko great, he's just the best guy to have stepped into the vacuum, similar to Lennox before him. I thought Foreman was in it for the belt and not the money, but he hadn't invented his grill yet AFAIK so you might be right on that one :wink: . We also agree on Roy (you got me on his age), he's far from a joke but has little chance of regaining the P4P title. It's funny you mentioned that about Lederman, I noticed it too. My score used to be the same or close, but that's not the case anymore. A funny thing about Merchant, he will almost always find one round a draw, I've noticed it in basically every HBO fight for the last ten years. I've heard they have not renewed his contract. Lampley looks to have survived his scandal very well, always liked him but he has said and done some things lately that make me question whether his brain is working properly.
 
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