Grr, ticket

[Aiken Drum]

Well, that only took four months.

Just want some feedback on whether or not this is fightable.

Coming up to an intersection with two left turn lanes, I chose the empty left one and, after turning, ended up in front of the black SUV in the other once we turned so that I could make the next right turn. I did all that legally. This SUV starts accelerating pretty hard to catch me, so I accelerate too, but not a whole lot yet. Finally, we're on a straightaway and he's still catching up to me, and I figure he's PO'ed at me for getting in front of him and wants to prove a point, so I accelerate more.

Then the red and blue lights hidden in his front grill come on.

The interview went pleasantly. The only thing I did which I probably shouldn't have was to respond to "What's your hurry?" with "Late for work.", but at least that wasn't a specific admission of anything. I ended up with a $105 60-in-a-45 ticket.

He did admit to me that he didn't turn his lights on until just then, though. It wasn't that I missed them. I'm assuming he was waiting until I got more than 10 miles over the speed limit.

So I'm wondering if this is fightable based on the fact that he was literally chasing me in a big black unmarked SUV without sirens or lights going, which is pretty threatening. I'm not perfect, but I don't usually speed any more than the average car, so this is annoying.

I dunno. I'm just not sure being provoked is a defense.

 

[RPM217]

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you've got a prayer. If you think that you're being chased, don't accelerate, pull to the side and let the guy pass you (signal first of course). I think what you're trying to determine is if you can plead entrapment. Just because someone is speeding near you, isn't a justifiable defense. Good luck!!!

 

[Aiken Drum]

Yeah, that's what I doubt, though I hardly think pulling over to let someone pass you when you're concerned about road rage is a reasonable alternative.

At the very least, I'll take it to the magistrate for mitigation, because I think this does count as a mitigating factor. Whether I contest it or not is the question.

 

[Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach]

First of all, traffic cases can be won just because the cop flakes and misses the hearing. In my experience its ALWAYS worth it to contest a traffic citation.

Second, I would plea "fear for my life" as justifiable cause. A truck that weighs twice as much as an aluminum sportscar speeding after you could be construed as "Road Rage\Carjacking". In these wacko days, better safe than sorry is what I would tell the judge!

 

[brahtw8]

I am a lawyer; in fact, I represent municipalities in civil rights cases and other matters, and also prosecute minor ordinance violations, includng speeding tickets, in municipal court.

Bear in mind that these answers are not meant to constitute legal advice, no attorney client relationship is intended or implied, etc. And, this advice is based on Wisconsin law, which is likely similar to the law of your state, but there may be significant differences.

Do you want to take this to trial? Probably not. It really doesn't matter what the cop was doing, it won't excuse the speeding.

Do you want to go to court? Yes. Go to the initial appearance as should be listed on the ticket, and plead not guilty. You will then likely have a pre-trial conference with someone like me, either that day or on a separate day. That person will likely reduce the severity of the 'points' if you have a similar DL system, and/or the amount of the fine. You may be able to have it changed to a non-moving violation.

I doubt that you will be able to get it dismissed outright, but it doesn't hurt to ask. If you came to me with such a ticket, I would give you a decent reduction (in line with what I do for everyone.)

Being polite helps. If you act like a jerk they won't want to do anything for you.

Good luck.

 

[Aiken Drum]

First of all, traffic cases can be won just because the cop flakes and misses the hearing.

Not in the state of Washington. I gather they don't have to show up anymore due to recent changes in state law. Their notes stand in their place. It's only if their notes suck or there's some issue they should be there to address that it's a problem.

 

[ss_md]

This is not true in California. Cops are given dates to attend traffic hearings. Court dates are determined by his or her schedule. They are also reprimanded and can get deductions in their pay for not appearing. So it is in their best interest to appear in court. This may not be true in other states.

First of all, traffic cases can be won just because the cop flakes and misses the hearing. In my experience its ALWAYS worth it to contest a traffic citation.

This may work however its your word against the officers.

Second, I would plea "fear for my life" as justifiable cause. A truck that weighs twice as much as an aluminum sportscar speeding after you could be construed as "Road Rage\Carjacking". In these wacko days, better safe than sorry is what I would tell the judge!

Try to fight it and if you don't win try to get traffic school! JMHO

 

[nsxtasy]

Basically, there are two ways to fight any ticket.

The first way is to fight it on its merits. I think an explanation that you were being terrorized is a reasonable one that a judge might be willing to accept as mitigating circumstances. However, any time you fight a case on its merits, it's risky; you can win, or you can lose. If you lose, you're stuck with a conviction on your record.

The second way is to avoid having the case heard. In many jurisdictions (and more so with urban/suburban courts than rural ones), they provide a mechanism whereby you can have the case adjudicated in a way that keeps it off your driving record. Sometimes this includes taking a traffic safety school (either in person or on the internet). Usually but not always this includes paying a fine. This is often done with minor offenses, and a 15-over speeding ticket is a minor offense. In some jurisdictions, it says on the ticket how to go about doing this; otherwise, to find out whether this is possible, you should approach the prosecutor before the court session begins (before ANYONE's case is called, not just yours) to ask whether this is possible. If the prosecutor agrees, then there's no risk, since you will know exactly how your case will be resolved.

It all depends on whether you are looking for (a) the satisfaction of a "victory" (no one else will care) and/or not paying a fine, vs (b) the ability to keep the conviction off your driving record.

Or, you can pay the ticket.

Good luck.

Try to fight it and if you don't win try to get traffic school! JMHO

I don't know about your area, but around here, you get traffic school only if the case is not heard; if the case is heard and you lose, you are stuck with the conviction and the fine, and traffic school is not on the table.

 

[ANYTIME]

This has worked in California

http://www.ticketassassin.com/index.html

 

[PFORPAUL]

A day in driving school might help you. If you knew you were going to turn right shortly after the left turn-why didn't you fall
in behind the suv before the turn? I assume you would probably
would have had to slow down prior to making the right turn-
forcing the suv behind you to brake a bit.

I strongly suggest you pay the fine-do not pass go-do not collect
$200.00!

 

[Aiken Drum]

I went around the SUV because typically around here an SUV drives slowly. Soccer mom, on the cellphone, whatever the reason, it's just best to avoid getting stuck behind them.

 

[BB]

I strongly suggest you fight it.

In my experience in WA state, the odds are in your favor. Either use an attorney that specializes in traffic tickets or "defer the findings" for upto a year (the state legistlature passed a bill allowing this a few years ago).

private me you want further advice.

 

[s14silvia]

Go to court. It's always worth it. And don't forget to dress nicely. Once I wore my gym clothes to court and the judge didn't seem to care about my arguments at all. Last time I went to court, I wore a nice suit and the judge just let me off the hook as soon as he saw me walking in. Maybe he was in good mood that day but I found out that some of my friends had similar experiences. I think it somewhat does matter that you present yourself as someone who looks like a 'good and law abiding citizen' Does this make any sense???

 

[huckster]

Call the assistant states attorney office and ask about court supervision. you pay the fine, plead guilty, and if you have no more offenses for next (3,6 or whatever specified number of months) then the offense is dismissed and never placed on your record.

it helps if your driving record is already pretty clean.

 

[nsxtasy]

Call the assistant states attorney office and ask about court supervision.

Yes, that's the "mechanism" I referred to. Here in Illinois, like Missouri, it's called supervision and involves a probation period as described above, but those features may or may not be part of it in other jurisdictions.

 

[Brian2by2]

Make a long story short: I got pulled over doing 53 in a 30 (500 ft from a major high way which i was MERGING onto at the time in my Slow-to-accelerate F-350 Diesel)...I was tagged with laser which my attorney says is pretty much impossible to get out of. None-the-less, I spent the $75 on him and it was dismissed completely.

Moral of the story: pay a lawyer and the odds are 1 to 1 that you will get off

By the way, speaking of unmarked cars, has anyone here read that *77 story going around online? It goes like this:

Young ladies driving home late at night. She's going a little fast and comes up behind a cop. She slows down in order to avoid being pulled over when all the sudden the grill of the car lights up behind her. Not being a marked car, she dials *77 which is a number you should call when being pulled over by an unmarked car. She told the dispatcher she was being pulled over at this location, yadi yadi ya. She turned on her hazards to acknowledge the cop behind her. The *77 dispatcher informs the girl that there is only one cop in this area (in front of her). The dispatcher then calls the cop in front of her and informs him. He quickly slows, and pulls over the "unmarked" car. Turns out the guy was a suspected rapist who had been using this technique before....

Don't know if its true or not, but *77 i believe is an actual # you can (and I do) call. Cops are alot more "rewarding" if you show that you are not only interested in their safety, but your own too!

 

[91BLACKANDBONENSX]

There is a lawyer in Seattle he owns a Porshe. He is the one to talk with. Cant remember his name ask Chris at Science of Speed. He was at the Park Place Motors rally last year. He can help and maybe even get it thrown out.

 

[len3.8]

I just finished with a speeding ticket. I went to the trial date pleaded not guilty. Then had the court trial, without the jury. The ticketing officer was also the balif. So I knew I was going to lose.
I did, and I then appealed. This was what I was waiting for, when I went to the docket call for this trial I was then able to bargin the ticket down to NMV (noisy muffler) and no points. Fine was slightly higher, but no points. YMMV
I was prepared to go to court, because I knew and they knew I was not speeding. The results I got were better than the alternative of sitting in court all day. And being convicted again.
YMMV

 

[nsxtasy]

Don't know if its true or not, but *77 i believe is an actual # you can (and I do) call.

First of all, it's #77, not *77. And that works in some areas, but not in others. It's better to just dial 911.

This is one of those "urban legends" that make the Internet rounds. Apparently there is no confirmation that this particular version of the story represents an actual case, and it probably does not. However, rapists have been known to pose as cops in order to get a victim to pull over.

Source, and more information, here.

 

[Chicago]

The advice from NSXtacy is sound. In some areas, South Florida being one, the officer not showing up no longer is a guaranteed victory. Now the Judge may choose to simply reschedule the court date. Last ticket I got I sent in a "not guilty" plea via mail and then changed my plea at the pre-trial hearing because I did not feel I had a strong enough case to win. Long story short I ended up with withheld adjudication (no school and no points) and a $70 fine - much better than the alternative. Good luck. Is that Doc guy gonna yell at me now for aiding a criminal who "did the crime and should do the time"?

 

[Aiken Drum]

The upshot

I'll check on Monday first to see if the ticket was filed within 48 hours. Then I'll plead by mail and ask for mitigation based on the special circumstances, preferably to pay the original fine, but change it to a non-moving violation or possibly deferred judgment. That's in recognition of the fact that I did the wrong thing, but in a very abnormal situation.

(The reason I'm going to plead by mail is that, as I forgot yesterday, I and my family are isolating ourselves due to the fact that my wife has asthma and we're being extra-cautious about even the slightest chances of exposure to SARS. It's not worth it to go sit in a courtroom with strangers for hours. Yes, I know it's paranoid, but it's what we need to do to be comfortable.)

If it fails, well, worse things could happen and I'll count my other blessings and be more careful in the future.

Thanks for all the advice, both for and against. Any further suggestions are still welcome.

 

[BB]

Re: The upshot

If you use an attorney there is no need for you to go to court. The attorney will take on the responsibility for you. So no fear of getting SARS.

Also, incase anyone is interested here is some info on "deferred findings" in WA state.
http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/1999-00/house/2775-2799/2776-s_sl_03282000.txt

Basically nothing will go on your record provided you stay clean for a year. Only downside is you can only do this once every 7 years.

 

[huckster]

no flames please--neither endorsing nor condemning---just giving information.

it is true that many states only let you do court supervision every 3,5,7 yrs etc.

However, in practice, most courts do a poor job of checking all data bases and many times court sup. is not even in the data bases. Many times municipal/county tickets arent even entered into a data base outside the county.

I just received court supervision(speeding) in a county in Illinois while I have a speeding ticket on my record(i live in Missouri). My speeding ticket is in Missouri, i have missouri license, and it was a state ticket, not county cop. I dont know if Illinois didnt know or didnt care, but they offered court sup. carte blanc. All they wanted was the fine. Go figure. Your experiences may vary.

 

[nsxtasy]

it is true that many states only let you do court supervision every 3,5,7 yrs etc.

It depends on the jurisdiction, and how supervision is obtained.

For example, there are counties in the Chicago area where you can plead the case for supervision by mail, getting a 4-hour traffic school as part of the supervision. I believe you can do this once a year, indefinitely. If you do this the second time in a year, you can get an 8-hour traffic school. After that, you have to plead guilty or go to court.

However, in practice, most courts do a poor job of checking all data bases and many times court sup. is not even in the data bases. Many times municipal/county tickets arent even entered into a data base outside the county.

True. Again, it varies by jurisdiction.

My speeding ticket is in Missouri, i have missouri license, and it was a state ticket, not county cop. I dont know if Illinois didnt know or didnt care, but they offered court sup. carte blanc. All they wanted was the fine. Go figure.

That's very common. Often, the courts want your money, and they want to reduce the demands on the courts for cases to be heard, so they offer arrangements like this. Pressure for convictions that go on the record (rather than fines) typically comes from law enforcement (police). In some jurisdictions (often rural ones), law enforcement has the political pressure to encourage the courts to convict rather than offer supervision or similar arrangements.

It's a good thing you got court supervision, though, because Illinois does exchange conviction information with all adjacent states.

 

[huckster]

yeah they do exchange conviction info, but not court sup.

It is amazing how many times someone could theoretically get court supervision.

By the way, my court supervision was in a rural county in Illinois. They suggested it before I had the chance--suggested it in a letter. I was amazed. It was a county operation(plane) using statetroopers. (The trooper looked less than thrilled about pulling people over for the county).