Hi Jeff,
This Saturday and Sunday. Denise will race the Miata.
This Saturday and Sunday. Denise will race the Miata.
-
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Inaugural Honda Challenge Championship
- Thread starter RacerX-21
- Start date
RacerX-21 said:
Regional race, not unexpected to see poor T-1 times as most good drivers are either not there or just using it as a test session and trying to stay out of the way of the guys that actually care about regional races.
Check times for the March or June National Race and you'll get a better indication of what a T-1 car will do there. 1:33.6 by Phil Coyle in March 1:35's by Chris Ingle and Phil in June. The T-2 frontrunners were actually running in the 1:39's in March, and in the 1:41's in June.
As far as GT1 goes, mid 1:20's at the March and June National race.
Great looking car btw. Good luck. I suspect there won't be much competition at a NASA weekend for it.
Not being too familiar with the Honda series, I stayed up last night reading the NASA tech rules for the various classifications for the Honda challenge series. I was surprised how by just how specific and limiting these rules are inside of H1-H5, right down to the clutch, compression points, wheel width, and side impact door beams.
Few would ever pass tech, at first glance it would seem that you would pretty much have to build up the vehicle entirely specific to this race series, and I would imagine then both exploit it to full benefit and have a driver that can lay down some series smackath to be highly competitive. It sounds like Toyo put up some dollars thou for the teams which at least helps.
Just looking at the lap records on this web site is difficult for me, I have no reference point at Road Atlanta to even begin to compare to. Relatively, what do the pro ALMS, WC, CART teams run?
Few would ever pass tech, at first glance it would seem that you would pretty much have to build up the vehicle entirely specific to this race series, and I would imagine then both exploit it to full benefit and have a driver that can lay down some series smackath to be highly competitive. It sounds like Toyo put up some dollars thou for the teams which at least helps.
Just looking at the lap records on this web site is difficult for me, I have no reference point at Road Atlanta to even begin to compare to. Relatively, what do the pro ALMS, WC, CART teams run?
John@Microsoft said:
WC GT cars run 1:28-1:29 at Road Atlanta $400,000.00+ cars
The GT1 that Brian is talking about is almost unlimited tube frame cars. Basically Trans-Am cars with no restriction on engine HP and huge amounts of ground effects. Not that they don’t have restrictions, it's just that they don’t get torn down until at the finals. That’s where you see 1:20's. and big tire budgets with 14" monsters.
Wow!!! very off-topic but reading all these posts makes me feel really poor 
I waited 16 years to be able to drop 35K into my little CRX and you just built the NSX to kill all NSXs because you felt a challenge??
I'm not worthy :wink:
I waited 16 years to be able to drop 35K into my little CRX and you just built the NSX to kill all NSXs because you felt a challenge??
I'm not worthy :wink:
$35k into a CRX????
You can can build a H1 S2000 for about $25k....out of a theft recovery, Salvage title, etc...
You can can build a H1 S2000 for about $25k....out of a theft recovery, Salvage title, etc...
jadkar said:Wow!!! very off-topic but reading all these posts makes me feel really poor
I waited 16 years to be able to drop 35K into my little CRX and you just built the NSX to kill all NSXs because you felt a challenge??
I'm not worthy :wink:
So Rob, how did you do in the race? Inquiring minds want to know! Unfortunately I had to go do other things and could not attend.
Jeff
Jeff
Scot said:
Off-topic here so I won't explain. If you want you can do some searching on my name and you'll find some threads that explain why I spent so much on my CRX. Also, it's not a dedicated track car, she's my baby.
Hi Jeff,
Sorry for the delay but during the event Elliott Moran marketing Associate for Super Street Magazine approached me. He invited me to compete in the first “East Coast” Time Attack. Most of you have probably seen the California event on Speed with the factory Cobalt car and other dedicated entrants from as far as Japan. I jumped at the chance and quickly called in for a day off work. The rear tires that I got out of the garbage at Balanced Performance were starting to cord after a day of racing on Saturday, so I decided not to race the Sunday race in hopes of doing well in Mondays televised Time Attack.
I did race Saturday, it rained in the morning so practice was in wet conditions but it wasn’t raining so I felt it went good and everything seemed to be working well. I didn’t want to post this before the event, but I had already decided that if it rained I wasn’t going to race because the tires have absolutely zero visible tread depth… and the NSX just sucks in the rain, not to mention some of Road Atlanta is unforgiving. Really not worth messing up my Mid-Ohio event.
Anyway, it was time to qualify and it was pouring rain. I was stuck with a problem, the rain was on and off so the race could easily be dry… I had to qualify or I would have to start in the back with a record-breaking quantity of cars. It was miserable, I didn’t even have a wiper because of the decision I made a week ago. And man I was right; the car was a handful in this down pour. Keeping the car in one piece was my only objective. I have to boast a little and say that rain is my strong suit; you quickly learn how many memory drivers are out there and who really feels the limits. Well let me tell you, I wanted off the track as soon as possible. Chad (Series leading H1 driver) was victim to another driver who was as cautious as I was driving; at the bottom of the esses he had to get off line to avoid another car and hydroplaned where it pools the worst at Road Atlanta. He knocked off a corner in the wall so he never made the Saturday race.
The race- it was drizzling in staging and the track was already wet from rain but the track didn’t have any pooling. By the time we organized a split grid, the rain had stopped and the sky was clearing of clouds. (Good thing). Because of the high amount of cars we had a split start that was determined by class rather then qualifying times. The lead set of cars would have a standing start to practice the format they will run at the Championships. The second group of cars (and the one I was in based on class) was to do a rolling start guided by a pace car with a radio. I was skeptical about pulling this off but it went notably well. The groups were spread out about half a lap to reduce the chance of fatal timing and the second group would get a green flag like a normal rolling start. Sunday we would swap starting classes so everyone would have practice with the standing start. Well here we go… I didn’t bother keeping the RPM up in 2nd gear and decided to just keep it in 3rd, I already had a clue about the performance difference from the drying practice. But I also have to be humble, because of the rain and the class separation I started in like 30th place in the middle of the second group. The green flew; I put the hammer down and went to the third lane towards the inside of turn 1. I passed about 10 of the fifteen cars in front of me before the braking zone for the turn. Realistically I think they all left a lane open for me because frankly the car was a monster that didn’t belong in this field. I don’t make the rules and don’t think I could change race groups even if I asked. I was very observant and safe; in fact I could have easily stuck my nose in and led the entire field before turn 2. I specifically remember my friend Jason moving over to continue clearing my path, but I was entering the unpredictable zone and felt it was safer for all of us to wait a few more seconds. Ultimately I think my times were about 6 seconds faster then the next competitor allowing me to catch and pass the next group of cars and lap all of my group and many of the first group. If we didn’t start half a lap apart, the math says that I would have lapped the entire field. I was concentrating so much on safely passing traffic that it surprised me to discover that I was the lead car to get the checkered flag in only 8 laps.
The car handled with good balance, even with the lifeless rear tires. My biggest weakness was the OE brakes, I had to start braking at the 300’ mark in turn 10 and that was even an edge that bordered a few close calls. It was really hard for me, I have cars that can brake at the 100 and it’s hard to imagine even braking as early as the 200’ mark so I kept retesting later limits.
It was also hard not to race the Sunday race, but I felt I didn’t belong and I wanted to save what tires I had left for the Time Attack. In the not yet dry track my best race lap was 1:38. Sounds slow but you will see in my video that I was driving very courteous and slowing for cars before I passed them to get a better feel that they saw me. In fact the only on line pass (BMW) was made because he gave me a point by. I also had to pass at least 4 cars per lap. That 1:38 was the fastest lap in all the classes second only to SCCA Pro David Farmer in his World Challenge Corvette who clocked a blistering 1:37 with the other V-8 cars. I know it was slow but it’s relative to the conditions, based on my experience with the cars limits I think the car was capable of going 1:33 to 1:34 with these brakes and tires. Good tires and real brakes would bring it to the 1:28 to 1:29.
Oh, the car weighed more then I thought at 2673 lbs, all that junk is heavy but like I said it was handling good. I will attach the video link tomorrow when I get to work.
I will clue you in about the Time Attack in another thread; this thread is starting to get thick. Teaser- it went very good and very very bad:frown: .
Sorry for the delay but during the event Elliott Moran marketing Associate for Super Street Magazine approached me. He invited me to compete in the first “East Coast” Time Attack. Most of you have probably seen the California event on Speed with the factory Cobalt car and other dedicated entrants from as far as Japan. I jumped at the chance and quickly called in for a day off work. The rear tires that I got out of the garbage at Balanced Performance were starting to cord after a day of racing on Saturday, so I decided not to race the Sunday race in hopes of doing well in Mondays televised Time Attack.
I did race Saturday, it rained in the morning so practice was in wet conditions but it wasn’t raining so I felt it went good and everything seemed to be working well. I didn’t want to post this before the event, but I had already decided that if it rained I wasn’t going to race because the tires have absolutely zero visible tread depth… and the NSX just sucks in the rain, not to mention some of Road Atlanta is unforgiving. Really not worth messing up my Mid-Ohio event.
Anyway, it was time to qualify and it was pouring rain. I was stuck with a problem, the rain was on and off so the race could easily be dry… I had to qualify or I would have to start in the back with a record-breaking quantity of cars. It was miserable, I didn’t even have a wiper because of the decision I made a week ago. And man I was right; the car was a handful in this down pour. Keeping the car in one piece was my only objective. I have to boast a little and say that rain is my strong suit; you quickly learn how many memory drivers are out there and who really feels the limits. Well let me tell you, I wanted off the track as soon as possible. Chad (Series leading H1 driver) was victim to another driver who was as cautious as I was driving; at the bottom of the esses he had to get off line to avoid another car and hydroplaned where it pools the worst at Road Atlanta. He knocked off a corner in the wall so he never made the Saturday race.
The race- it was drizzling in staging and the track was already wet from rain but the track didn’t have any pooling. By the time we organized a split grid, the rain had stopped and the sky was clearing of clouds. (Good thing). Because of the high amount of cars we had a split start that was determined by class rather then qualifying times. The lead set of cars would have a standing start to practice the format they will run at the Championships. The second group of cars (and the one I was in based on class) was to do a rolling start guided by a pace car with a radio. I was skeptical about pulling this off but it went notably well. The groups were spread out about half a lap to reduce the chance of fatal timing and the second group would get a green flag like a normal rolling start. Sunday we would swap starting classes so everyone would have practice with the standing start. Well here we go… I didn’t bother keeping the RPM up in 2nd gear and decided to just keep it in 3rd, I already had a clue about the performance difference from the drying practice. But I also have to be humble, because of the rain and the class separation I started in like 30th place in the middle of the second group. The green flew; I put the hammer down and went to the third lane towards the inside of turn 1. I passed about 10 of the fifteen cars in front of me before the braking zone for the turn. Realistically I think they all left a lane open for me because frankly the car was a monster that didn’t belong in this field. I don’t make the rules and don’t think I could change race groups even if I asked. I was very observant and safe; in fact I could have easily stuck my nose in and led the entire field before turn 2. I specifically remember my friend Jason moving over to continue clearing my path, but I was entering the unpredictable zone and felt it was safer for all of us to wait a few more seconds. Ultimately I think my times were about 6 seconds faster then the next competitor allowing me to catch and pass the next group of cars and lap all of my group and many of the first group. If we didn’t start half a lap apart, the math says that I would have lapped the entire field. I was concentrating so much on safely passing traffic that it surprised me to discover that I was the lead car to get the checkered flag in only 8 laps.
The car handled with good balance, even with the lifeless rear tires. My biggest weakness was the OE brakes, I had to start braking at the 300’ mark in turn 10 and that was even an edge that bordered a few close calls. It was really hard for me, I have cars that can brake at the 100 and it’s hard to imagine even braking as early as the 200’ mark so I kept retesting later limits.
It was also hard not to race the Sunday race, but I felt I didn’t belong and I wanted to save what tires I had left for the Time Attack. In the not yet dry track my best race lap was 1:38. Sounds slow but you will see in my video that I was driving very courteous and slowing for cars before I passed them to get a better feel that they saw me. In fact the only on line pass (BMW) was made because he gave me a point by. I also had to pass at least 4 cars per lap. That 1:38 was the fastest lap in all the classes second only to SCCA Pro David Farmer in his World Challenge Corvette who clocked a blistering 1:37 with the other V-8 cars. I know it was slow but it’s relative to the conditions, based on my experience with the cars limits I think the car was capable of going 1:33 to 1:34 with these brakes and tires. Good tires and real brakes would bring it to the 1:28 to 1:29.
Oh, the car weighed more then I thought at 2673 lbs, all that junk is heavy but like I said it was handling good. I will attach the video link tomorrow when I get to work.
I will clue you in about the Time Attack in another thread; this thread is starting to get thick. Teaser- it went very good and very very bad:frown: .
RacerX-21 said:1:29 is a lightning fat lap on 275’s… that’s what the World Challenge cars are doing at Road Atlanta, I only hope I can run that fast after I sort the car out. The fastest/winning GT-1 ran a 1:33.8 and has 13" wide tires front and rear, they make over 750 HP and the one-piece body is esentually a big wing. The fastest T-1 at the Road Atlanta event last weekend was a 1:39.49 with 315 tires. I will be happy with that on used 225 and 275 tires. I raced the T-1 champion at Barber in 2004 while testing my 275 RW Cup car in SPO (He won the Southeast championship three consecutive years) Guess who won at Barber?
Go back to your slot cars
First of all I can read, evidently other people can't???
Don't post regional SAARC times and regional T-1 champ 3 year in a row stuff...
At least use facts:
Road Atlanta national T-1 March 2006
1st place 132.7,
2nd 133.3
compare that to 140's at the latest regional for the winnar (whatever) or 133.8 June 2006 T-1 time (FACTS)
I stand on my comments that you should be much faster than a T-1 car in that ride at 2700 pounds with that much power.
You have a great car there, I personally think you will be surprised at how fast you are able to pedal at Road Atlanta if you can drive it well.
Also quit using regional (2 cars in class) comparisons for GT-1
Facts:
March National Road Atlanta ( I will use what you said in error that the winning GT-1 car was "only" capable of running <133.8> for this comparison)
1st 24 PHILIP SIMMS 1:23.291
2nd 80 Scott Murphy 1:23.814
3rd 17 Michael Brockman 1:25.825
4th 8 Joe Hooker 1:26.027
5th 04 Robert Humphreys 1:26.935
6th 81 Paul Newman 1:27.336
7th 77 Glen Jung 1:29.028
8th 19 Dan Shaver 1:31.723 1:31.723 -.---
9th 79 Van Sayler 1:31.801 1:32.912 1:31.801
10th 22 Darrell Carlisle 1:32.137 1:33.739 1:32.137
11th 30 Richard Grant 1:32.428 1:32.428 -.---
12th 7 Chris Ingle 1:32.772 1:32.772 2:17.845
13th 6 Phil Coryle 1:33.335 1:34.553 1:33.335 T-1 CARS
That would make 13 cars faster than the 133.8 you declared was the fastest GT-1 time :O
June 2006 National:
1 48 john finger 1:26.270 I would mention too that he is about the 5th best GT-1 driver that comes to Road Atlanta
2nd: 77 Glen Jung 1:26.598
3rd: 8 Joe Hooker 1:26.728
your slot car just fell off the track
BTW these times are from this year with the track getting slower
Facts dr watson, facts.
I saw a post that maybe I didn't interprit correctly that you ran 138's and 140's at Road Atlanta just recently? Is this correct?
Let me lookup the T-2 times now and lay down some more facts
Yup: Road Atlanta national June 2006 T-2 fastest: 1:39.950
March 2006 Road Atlanta national: T-2 fastest 1:38.409
^^ all 330 horspower, 3300 pounds of them..
Lastly I rest my case. and I accept your slot car and "you don't know shit" comments from the gallery as unfounded. Thanks to the one guy that pointed out national times versus regional novice permit times (Brian I think)
A 560HP/600HP/700HP car should run faster than a T-2 car.
And for the T-1 comment not being stock, it is a stock car, full interior, B&B motor though, no funny stuff in the neighborhood of 370-380 rear wheel horsepower and the weight is north of 3300 pounds, a far cry from 560/600/700 horsepower and 2600 pounds you mentioned. A lot of the Vettes run 275 in the front and 315's in the rear too. As mentioned the H1 Civic Si with all its might ran 138's (well done I might add) and certainly wasn't on 275 tires either and I doubt new tires at that.
The latest regional T-1 times were 2 new drivers, one on a novice permit running just below 140 as would be expected with a new driver and first time at Road Atlanta.
After going back and reading about the drizzle I will come off the T-2 comments a tick although the race report I read said good conditions after the drizzle ended the track was cool and good to go <run groups may of course vary>
Farmers World Challenge 1.37 time was slow as hell too, way slower that the T-1 cars and getting into that T-2 neighborhood time <again I take the drizzle into consideration>
I saw a post that maybe I didn't interprit correctly that you ran 138's and 140's at Road Atlanta just recently? Is this correct?
Let me lookup the T-2 times now and lay down some more facts
Yup: Road Atlanta national June 2006 T-2 fastest: 1:39.950
March 2006 Road Atlanta national: T-2 fastest 1:38.409
^^ all 330 horspower, 3300 pounds of them..
Lastly I rest my case. and I accept your slot car and "you don't know shit" comments from the gallery as unfounded. Thanks to the one guy that pointed out national times versus regional novice permit times (Brian I think)
A 560HP/600HP/700HP car should run faster than a T-2 car.
And for the T-1 comment not being stock, it is a stock car, full interior, B&B motor though, no funny stuff in the neighborhood of 370-380 rear wheel horsepower and the weight is north of 3300 pounds, a far cry from 560/600/700 horsepower and 2600 pounds you mentioned. A lot of the Vettes run 275 in the front and 315's in the rear too. As mentioned the H1 Civic Si with all its might ran 138's (well done I might add) and certainly wasn't on 275 tires either and I doubt new tires at that.
The latest regional T-1 times were 2 new drivers, one on a novice permit running just below 140 as would be expected with a new driver and first time at Road Atlanta.
After going back and reading about the drizzle I will come off the T-2 comments a tick although the race report I read said good conditions after the drizzle ended the track was cool and good to go <run groups may of course vary>
Farmers World Challenge 1.37 time was slow as hell too, way slower that the T-1 cars and getting into that T-2 neighborhood time <again I take the drizzle into consideration>
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Also read that a NSX hit a wall a bit at that event. Was that another NSX or did you nip one somewhere? You didn't mention it so I assume it was someone else. Nevermind I just read your full report. That sucks. Good to go to get it back underway though.
I should have come to this event, too far of drive though and the weather report didn't look good to say the least.
I should have come to this event, too far of drive though and the weather report didn't look good to say the least.
Dude, come out from behind your smack-talking anonymity. You appear to be a trolling scumbag, with no understanding of who/what goes on on this board. What do you know about what an NSX is/isn't capable of on the track? Do you even own an NSX? How many track days experience do you have? How many competition licenses do you hold? How many laps have you done at Road Atlanta? Currently, You have absolutely ZERO cred on this board. If you want to establish any, you should come clean, and give some references. You have not EARNED the right to make critical commentary about anyone else here. Of course, the miracle of the internet and the freedom of Lud's NSXPrime makes it POSSIBLE for you to do so, but that doesn't make it right.
My name is Mark Hicks, and I approved this post.
My name is Mark Hicks, and I approved this post.
Thanks for the comment about fixing the car.
Now that I’m convinced your age is greater then twelve I can debate that your facts are selective and the comparisons are classed differently for a reason. Do any of the Corvettes run 225 DOT rubber? and do they run 11 inch rotors with single sided pistons? Do any of them drive their cars to the track? The classes you’re stating are less then normal, they are pro built cars that appear to people like you to be “Near Stock”. A 125 cc go-cart would kick all of our asses. And to head you off from publishing more BS, I’m not comparing any of these cars to a Go-cart that has differences… I’m making it clear to you that racing associations have different classes for a reason, so that alike cars can run against each other. As you read, this car just won its class with a number of deficiencies and against other pro drivers.
Now that were on the subject, what do you drive? What is your record? Who are you? Do you have any video or experience in a racecar?
OK here’s the challenge- Pick a track that we both know or a track that neither of us know. You bring your car of choice and I will bring mine. We both drive both cars and then you can be humbled by how bad I kick your ass.
Back to the thread-
Farmer somehow convinced the race director to run in my group on Sunday. He picked it up but only ran a 1:35 in the dry… I wish I could have raced him, it would have been fun.
Here’s the video of the race I promised- http://www.racerx.tv/Video/HC.wmv
Now that I’m convinced your age is greater then twelve I can debate that your facts are selective and the comparisons are classed differently for a reason. Do any of the Corvettes run 225 DOT rubber? and do they run 11 inch rotors with single sided pistons? Do any of them drive their cars to the track? The classes you’re stating are less then normal, they are pro built cars that appear to people like you to be “Near Stock”. A 125 cc go-cart would kick all of our asses. And to head you off from publishing more BS, I’m not comparing any of these cars to a Go-cart that has differences… I’m making it clear to you that racing associations have different classes for a reason, so that alike cars can run against each other. As you read, this car just won its class with a number of deficiencies and against other pro drivers.
Now that were on the subject, what do you drive? What is your record? Who are you? Do you have any video or experience in a racecar?
OK here’s the challenge- Pick a track that we both know or a track that neither of us know. You bring your car of choice and I will bring mine. We both drive both cars and then you can be humbled by how bad I kick your ass.
Back to the thread-
Farmer somehow convinced the race director to run in my group on Sunday. He picked it up but only ran a 1:35 in the dry… I wish I could have raced him, it would have been fun.
Here’s the video of the race I promised- http://www.racerx.tv/Video/HC.wmv
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I should add that I suspect Rob is being overly cautious in his assessment of what his NSX will do at Road Atlanta. Whats to be gained by saying the car will run 1:25's, even if it will, if its only going to take 1:35's to demolish the HU field? All you'd do is run the risk of hurting the car by trying to prove a point.
That said, DAL's GAC prepped NSX should be more than capable of running in the mid 1:30's at Road Atlanta. I would venture that car would easily turn between 1:35 and 1:37's with a decent driver without too much trouble, maybe a little faster with the front wheel change they made after I left the team late in '04 which from conversations with them greatly helped the handling of the car.
This is based on times I turned in my PCA E-Class 944 Turbo at that track and the relative differential I observed between the GAC NSX and my 944 Turbo on the tracks where I've driven both cars (VIR, MSR, TMS, TWS, Daytona, Phoenix)
Given that, with a hundred or so less lbs of weight, none of the suspension restrictions we had in GAC, a lot more tire, a lot more aero, and a TON more horsepower, realistically that car should turn laps in the mid 1:20's. But again, why should he say it could or even try unless there was a need? Until another HU car shows up that can turn laps close to what that car should be capable of, there's no reason for Rob to push it even a little bit.
Having only skimmed the HU rules, what I'd like to see is someone take an NSX build out pro-level suspension, install a Comptech SC, a vented hood, and the Type R rear wing. Lightweight, simple, and should be reliable, that should make for a very fast HU car that should be able to run in the low 1:30's at Road Atlanta (might be able to break into the very high 1:20's with sticky tires but that might be a stretch) with no issues. Hmmmm, wish I still had my NSX, that'd be a fun project.
That said, DAL's GAC prepped NSX should be more than capable of running in the mid 1:30's at Road Atlanta. I would venture that car would easily turn between 1:35 and 1:37's with a decent driver without too much trouble, maybe a little faster with the front wheel change they made after I left the team late in '04 which from conversations with them greatly helped the handling of the car.
This is based on times I turned in my PCA E-Class 944 Turbo at that track and the relative differential I observed between the GAC NSX and my 944 Turbo on the tracks where I've driven both cars (VIR, MSR, TMS, TWS, Daytona, Phoenix)
Given that, with a hundred or so less lbs of weight, none of the suspension restrictions we had in GAC, a lot more tire, a lot more aero, and a TON more horsepower, realistically that car should turn laps in the mid 1:20's. But again, why should he say it could or even try unless there was a need? Until another HU car shows up that can turn laps close to what that car should be capable of, there's no reason for Rob to push it even a little bit.
Having only skimmed the HU rules, what I'd like to see is someone take an NSX build out pro-level suspension, install a Comptech SC, a vented hood, and the Type R rear wing. Lightweight, simple, and should be reliable, that should make for a very fast HU car that should be able to run in the low 1:30's at Road Atlanta (might be able to break into the very high 1:20's with sticky tires but that might be a stretch) with no issues. Hmmmm, wish I still had my NSX, that'd be a fun project.
RacerX-21 said:
Ummm, did you mean a 125cc kart? A 125hp kart would first of all be completely undrivable, though if it were possible to keep it on the track and put the power down, it'd have a power to weight ratio that would scare the crap out of just about anyone short of an experienced F-1 pilot (230 lbs, thats what, a little better than 2:1 or so). YIKES!!!!
But yes, a 125cc "shifter" kart, properly geared, would kick a car's tail on most tracks.
Yes I would agree with this estimate. The GAC NSX with that rubber would be capable of these times with the right conditions, and the GAC car is only about 50 lbs lighter. That was my point Rubber, Brakes, car type changes everything. And assumptions are just that.Brian Bailey said:
You never told us you went to Phoenix before we went with the Cup cars.
Your right about the point but even Peter Cunningham couldn’t get the NSX below 1:28 with great brakes, 625 HP, better down force and way better track conditions and he had a full time team of car builders and a million dollar budget. Use Cory’s times as a perspective with today’s track condition.
What were really talking about are conditions, I matched our old DAL GAC track record running a stock NSX with used RA1’s a camber kit and a 6lb CTSC. Different is just different. This NSX weighed hundreds more and had much worse rubber but had 100 more horsepower.
Brian Bailey said:
Yes cc. I here that Eddy Lawson and his unlimited 250cc cart beat all the 4-wheel track records at Lagua including the F1’s. The only faster recorded lap was with an 1100cc bike.
Brian, what are you racing now?
RacerX-21 said:
Don't you mean 50 lbs heavier? The GAC car weighed in at 2730 with the 3.0L. Didn't yours come in at 2680 or thereabouts?
RacerX-21 said:
I hadn't. I've been since. Thats probably the one track I have in common with both cars that really isn't a valid comparison because we really didn't get the NSX set up anywhere close to correct for that track due to a variety of factors. Was a shame too, thats one of the one's on the schedule the car should have done well at. Oh well, whats that they say about hindsight?
RacerX-21 said:
I did, at 1:30.x, he was a few seconds off what a 997GT3 in Rolex trim will do at that track. Heck, a stock 997GT3 will run 1:30's and his is far from stock at this point. Also, knowing Cory, he was only doing what he needed to do to win. One thing he always does, brings the car home in one piece.
No question the track was slower, but I suspect it was only a few seconds slower than more normalized conditions given the dampness. Even so, I wasn't there, so its just conjecture.
Even so, I think comparison's to Nationally Licensed drivers running in National Races are much more valid to show what a particular type of car can do (be in GT1, T-1, T-2, whatever). Regional races have all kinds of hacks with novice permits on the track and generally the only time a decent driver show's up is to get a little cheap track time, not to pound the field into submission.
As to the track getting slower, it didn't look like it slowed down much between March and June (even though I would suspect it should due to much hotter temps in June), which would lead me to think it shouldn't have slowed down much between June and now. Why do I say this? Look at Joe Hooker's times in GT-1. Virtually identical in both races. Gut tells me, and I don't know this for sure because I don't follow it closely any longer, but I suspect the March SCCA National at Road Atlanta is a substantially larger and deeper field than the National race in June.
RacerX-21 said:
My wife's divorce lawyer.
Seriously though, not a thing at the moment. Sold the 996 to a customer of Mike Fritzgerald's back in February. The 944 Turbo is sitting in the garage in need of an engine freshening. Had signed a contract to purchase a CTS-V to run in GAC back in February, but had to let that lapse due to the divorce. And had to pass on a chance to drive in the MX-5 Cup pro series for the team leading the championship at the moment. Tough year as far as racing goes.
Thankfully, the divorce will be fully behind me in the next week or so and I can get back to racing again.
Brian Bailey said:
I think the GAC car was with driver, wasn’t it?
This was his Rolex car and we were talking about not being sure if his best time of 1:29 would hold up to the other Time Attack competition.
RacerX-21 said:
GAC is car only, as is the Rolex series. Most endurance series do it that way so you can't gain an advantage with a light and a heavy driver.
His Rolex car should definitely be capable of better than what he turned. A stock 997GT3 Cup will turn in the 1:27/1:28's and the Rolex car is a couple seconds faster than that. Heck, stock 996GT3 Cups were turning in the 1:28's at Road Atlanta the last time they were there and the 997GT3 Cup is at least a second or so faster than the previous model.
Even so, in a Time Attack, that Cup Car is really over-matched as its a real racecar built to a specific series ruleset. Unless the Time Attack rules have changed, there really aren't any, just like in HU. In a run what you brung situation, there are a TON of cars out there that would destroy a GT3 Cup car.
Brian Bailey said:
A GT3 cup car is really only 2 seconds slower then a Rolex car, wow now that’s some car. How much is a 997 cup car? You ran a 1:30 here with your 944… is it a Turbo?
