Oh yeah, well my blender has 4 speeds: "slow", "medium", "fast" & then there's "F#ck yo sh!t up!"
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Interesting comparo at the viper forum
- Thread starter louie
- Start date
SexyNSX....BOV is a blow off valve.
Re: Interesting compare at the viper forum
Sorry, I was not trying to make you angry.
I do not care about your magazine specs., arm chair racing or he said she said stuff. You can find 2-3 sec. variances in road tests. So what?
If you mod ANY car enough and spend enough money you can make it fast. That would include a Esprit.
Stock to stock there is no walk just talk.
Sorry, I was not trying to make you angry.
I do not care about your magazine specs., arm chair racing or he said she said stuff. You can find 2-3 sec. variances in road tests. So what?
If you mod ANY car enough and spend enough money you can make it fast. That would include a Esprit.
Stock to stock there is no walk just talk.
SexyNsx
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Well looks like this convo is over.. :biggrin:
Do you have anything conclusive to offer with your argument? besides "yo I drove my pals esprit once, and it ain't fast"..
I have tossed out a bunch of useful info here.. and all you can respond with is "stock to stock there is no walk just talk" <-- did you even read my post listing the stock performance specs of the three cars?
Armchair racing? pal if anyone here is armchair racing.. it's you.. since I have owned 2 of the three cars we are discussing.. You obviously didn't read my post..
In any case I would hope in the future you do some research and respond with some intelligence..
Do you have anything conclusive to offer with your argument? besides "yo I drove my pals esprit once, and it ain't fast"..
I have tossed out a bunch of useful info here.. and all you can respond with is "stock to stock there is no walk just talk" <-- did you even read my post listing the stock performance specs of the three cars?
Armchair racing? pal if anyone here is armchair racing.. it's you.. since I have owned 2 of the three cars we are discussing.. You obviously didn't read my post..
In any case I would hope in the future you do some research and respond with some intelligence..
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SexyNsx said:
It was not some pal's car. It was not once. It was not faster or as fast as the Vipers I've repaired and driven. It was about the same as a average early NA NSX in terms of straight line acceleration.
It was one car.
I have driven two C6 ZO6's. They were not equal in terms of straight line performance. One was much faster than the other. Cars differ from one and other even cars of the same manufacturer and vintage.
Again it was one car. Maybe it was below average as Esprits go.
I get in a car and drive. I guess I should read more to know what I'm feeling is really exciting and fast.
Ownership does not preclude knowledge or expertise it's silly to even suggest that.
SexyNsx said:
The seats are bolted to a fiberglass floor. Four holes in 1/4-3/8" fiberglass with four bolts passing through it with nuts and washers holding it in place.
The center tube that is the "frame" of this vehicle is made of mild steel.
Not HSLA steel but mild steel.
SexyNsx
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No offense, but what the HELL does the bolting seat mechanism have to do with anything here?
I just have to ask, are you certain you drove the esprit V8? or like a 1984 stevens model? because to make the assertion that it is as fast as a early model NSX is just plain embarassing..
270 hp, 3100 pounds.. and 350 hp 3000 lbs is the difference.. again your statements are going directly against the laws of physics.. but you don't seem to care if they do..
I have given professional test drivers reports.. Maybe you drove a piece of total shit esprit who knows.. but you obviously do not know what you are talking about that is for sure..
and YES it makes a huge difference if you own a car and drive it.. both my viper and esprit are VERY well sorted mechanically when I owned them.. both driving as well as they could be..
I'm going to end this because regardless of the facts I throw at you you just keep spewing your BS about the way the seats are bolted on the esprit and regurgitating your opinion that the V8 esprit is "nowhere near" as fast as a viper and somehow is as fast as a car that has 80 less hp in the same weightclass.. if you can validate this in your own mind it's useless trying to convince you otherwise..
so YES my friend you are correct the V8 esprit is NOWHERE NEAR as fast as a Gen 2 Viper and about as quick as the first model year NSX.. you are absolutely right :wink:
I just have to ask, are you certain you drove the esprit V8? or like a 1984 stevens model? because to make the assertion that it is as fast as a early model NSX is just plain embarassing..
270 hp, 3100 pounds.. and 350 hp 3000 lbs is the difference.. again your statements are going directly against the laws of physics.. but you don't seem to care if they do..
I have given professional test drivers reports.. Maybe you drove a piece of total shit esprit who knows.. but you obviously do not know what you are talking about that is for sure..
and YES it makes a huge difference if you own a car and drive it.. both my viper and esprit are VERY well sorted mechanically when I owned them.. both driving as well as they could be..
I'm going to end this because regardless of the facts I throw at you you just keep spewing your BS about the way the seats are bolted on the esprit and regurgitating your opinion that the V8 esprit is "nowhere near" as fast as a viper and somehow is as fast as a car that has 80 less hp in the same weightclass.. if you can validate this in your own mind it's useless trying to convince you otherwise..
so YES my friend you are correct the V8 esprit is NOWHERE NEAR as fast as a Gen 2 Viper and about as quick as the first model year NSX.. you are absolutely right :wink:
SexyNsx said:
You mentioned it:
SexyNsx said:
What good is it if your seat is bolted to a fiberglass floor.
Who's ignoring physics?
I repeat, ownership is not expertise. It means you can be sold a car.
Having a kitchen don't mean you know how to cook.
I love how the Esprit looks, it is quick but it is not a Viper killer.
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SexyNsx
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Your bolt on comments are ignorant.. I never brought those up due to the fact that they hold no bearing to this conversation.
Physics? plenty of supercars are built oddly.. Word is even the newest supercars have some odd design choices..
The Esprit is no Viper Killer? No, I agree I think it's not quite as quick in a straight line stock.. However take a Gen 2 viper and a Esprit v8TT to a track (where turns exist) and I can promise you better results with the esprit.. or the NSX for that matter..
The viper's handling isn't so great.. the Gen 3 is a major improvement but the other 2 are more or less hot rods.. on a road course they would both be tagging behind cars that are designed to turn like the esprit/nsx..
So yes, stock for stock the viper is faster in the QM as I mentioned in my original posts.. however it's not THAT much faster (within a few tenths) to be able to make a difference in a road course..
Physics? plenty of supercars are built oddly.. Word is even the newest supercars have some odd design choices..
The Esprit is no Viper Killer? No, I agree I think it's not quite as quick in a straight line stock.. However take a Gen 2 viper and a Esprit v8TT to a track (where turns exist) and I can promise you better results with the esprit.. or the NSX for that matter..
The viper's handling isn't so great.. the Gen 3 is a major improvement but the other 2 are more or less hot rods.. on a road course they would both be tagging behind cars that are designed to turn like the esprit/nsx..
So yes, stock for stock the viper is faster in the QM as I mentioned in my original posts.. however it's not THAT much faster (within a few tenths) to be able to make a difference in a road course..
SexyNsx said:440-450 is at peak HP in the RPM range, accoring to Johan(which means perhaps only at 6-7400rpm range or less that is over 400hp), the previous owner of my esprit Dynoed it and achieved over 400 hp at the crank..
I have the wastgate and airfilter upgrades you are talking about
I live in philly, however I probably know some of the esprit guys you know...
Stuff like the LSD in a modified esprit v8TT makes it tough to beat at the track..
What is a BOV?
Also in regards to Johan, he is awesome, what he does is take the entire ECU system and create a bolt on chip system (so instead of lotus charging you thousands to simply change the ecu set up (like they do with the high torque or red race ecu) You are able to mix and match by simply taking out a chip and entering a new one! I personally love this! So I have the High Torque ECU if I want it (sport 350 version) and I currently have Johan's chip in there.. He's awesome
Our local club president and mine has pretty much similar mods. Johan ECU, K&N, Hyperflow Cats, calibrated Wastegate, etc. He dynoed at around 350whp, pretty much what Johan said it will do. Nice to hear someone as passionate with their Esprit as we.
BOV (Blow of Valve) will give us better spool time and great for parking lot racing (Johan's word). With a little work and bigger turbine, our engine will technically hold up to about 750hp. Unfortunately, our stock tranny will be long gone before then. Perhaps that will give us an excuse to swap in a Hewland.
No I don't have LSD in my Esprit but I do have an OS Giken in my NSX. It is a bit noisy for everyday street driving. Right now, my Esprit only does rain duty and the NSX is my daily driver. All other vehicles are a bit too much for the street........:frown:
Best Regards
Paul
Please read with no attiude: This is not an argument just a statement.
I have not been following this forum and just read it know.
I have over 10 days of driving time in SexyNSXs car, I have never driven a stock esprit, I drove his previous Viper a couple times and his Elise. I also drove and my other friends Viper 4-5 times, I have been activly looking for a NSX for 2months now I have driven 4-5 along with SexyNSX who came with me to check out each NSX, One NSX for a whole day I would say I have a decent feel for the NSX and really good feel for SexyNSXs car.
Conclusion
His Car specifically Pulls Like a bat-out-of-Hell
what was done to it I have no clue. What we do know is maintnance on those cars are very picky I expect 75% of used ones on the market to probably be on there way out.
If I only drove one NSX I would not be comparing anything here.
But I have, driven all these numerous times (Viper, Esprit, NSX) HIS Esprit will keep up or most likley lose a Viper in the straights and his car is also much more friendly when pushing corners. Wich leads me to belive that above average driver against above average driver his Esprit is way ahead on any track.
The viper although impresive on paper with professional Drivers. It is probably the worst car ever made when any type of even semi-advavnced driver pushes it to the limits. Way too much brute-power and probably the busiest throttle steering car on the street today. You cant just drive the car you have to swing and counter in almost in every single turn even if you want it at 2/3 of it capabilities, therefore I dont consider it a properly tuned race car for the street. This car should not even be allowed off the shoroom floor without proper instruction. My friend is the top Exotic rebuilder in the area we see more crashed vipers than anything else usually spinouts and off road on even modest turns.
The NSX has amazing capabilites that even a amature can drive at 2/3 of its capablities which SexyNSX more than willingly addmitted to early on in this thread and praised the NSX for being such a well engineerd and developed car. He after test driving the NSXs with me latley addmitted that he should have considerd the NSX originnally when searching for his Esprit, Not that either is specifficallt better, but diffrent. The esprit is more exotic with more power (not arguable! period!) and of course more maintnance. The NSX is more refined, handeling is slighlty better but much easier to push at its limits, maintnace is less. But road feel, driving position, road view, very much the same. and lets face it the Esprit is more exotic, Yes I have chosen the NSX that is why I am here but im not blind I give all cars due respect.
Lets just say we can a agree, that since the Esprit is turbo charged with a V8if we were to even things out and the NSX was Supercharged then the NSX would beat the daylights out of the Esprit ass on ever aspect known to man.
This whole thread was based on a (experienced persons) test drive vs. a (experienced persons) ownership. Now if we were talking experienced test drive vs. amature ownership, then mabe this argument could hold true but in this case I think this whole thread was based on insificent drive time (or shitty car). Not only to mention that the first drive in any car over 300hp will never show its abilites due to the time it takes to adjust to the different characteristics of a car.
Those are my two cents.
I have not been following this forum and just read it know.
I have over 10 days of driving time in SexyNSXs car, I have never driven a stock esprit, I drove his previous Viper a couple times and his Elise. I also drove and my other friends Viper 4-5 times, I have been activly looking for a NSX for 2months now I have driven 4-5 along with SexyNSX who came with me to check out each NSX, One NSX for a whole day I would say I have a decent feel for the NSX and really good feel for SexyNSXs car.
Conclusion
His Car specifically Pulls Like a bat-out-of-Hell
what was done to it I have no clue. What we do know is maintnance on those cars are very picky I expect 75% of used ones on the market to probably be on there way out.
If I only drove one NSX I would not be comparing anything here.
But I have, driven all these numerous times (Viper, Esprit, NSX) HIS Esprit will keep up or most likley lose a Viper in the straights and his car is also much more friendly when pushing corners. Wich leads me to belive that above average driver against above average driver his Esprit is way ahead on any track.
The viper although impresive on paper with professional Drivers. It is probably the worst car ever made when any type of even semi-advavnced driver pushes it to the limits. Way too much brute-power and probably the busiest throttle steering car on the street today. You cant just drive the car you have to swing and counter in almost in every single turn even if you want it at 2/3 of it capabilities, therefore I dont consider it a properly tuned race car for the street. This car should not even be allowed off the shoroom floor without proper instruction. My friend is the top Exotic rebuilder in the area we see more crashed vipers than anything else usually spinouts and off road on even modest turns.
The NSX has amazing capabilites that even a amature can drive at 2/3 of its capablities which SexyNSX more than willingly addmitted to early on in this thread and praised the NSX for being such a well engineerd and developed car. He after test driving the NSXs with me latley addmitted that he should have considerd the NSX originnally when searching for his Esprit, Not that either is specifficallt better, but diffrent. The esprit is more exotic with more power (not arguable! period!) and of course more maintnance. The NSX is more refined, handeling is slighlty better but much easier to push at its limits, maintnace is less. But road feel, driving position, road view, very much the same. and lets face it the Esprit is more exotic, Yes I have chosen the NSX that is why I am here but im not blind I give all cars due respect.
Lets just say we can a agree, that since the Esprit is turbo charged with a V8if we were to even things out and the NSX was Supercharged then the NSX would beat the daylights out of the Esprit ass on ever aspect known to man.
This whole thread was based on a (experienced persons) test drive vs. a (experienced persons) ownership. Now if we were talking experienced test drive vs. amature ownership, then mabe this argument could hold true but in this case I think this whole thread was based on insificent drive time (or shitty car). Not only to mention that the first drive in any car over 300hp will never show its abilites due to the time it takes to adjust to the different characteristics of a car.
Those are my two cents.
:biggrin: to summarize joe's angle[ liberties taken, as allowed by international law ].... " a car is only as strong as it's weakest point..."
nsx wins. even with a pin motor tiago & sexynsxynsxy: raed more, rite less
fcol, my philly phriends
nsx wins. even with a pin motor tiago & sexynsxynsxy: raed more, rite less
fcol, my philly phriends
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SexyNsx
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I don't see how this stuff is lame..
This sort of thing happens on car forums.. if you log into an nsx forum and praise another car you get bashed..
What would be mature would be mutual respect for other cars.. For instance.. while you appreciate your nsx.. don't start making fools notions up that you can't substantiate..
For instance I have tossed in a shitload of facts and information.. and all pbassjo can do is toss out insults that hold no bearing to the point he brought up in the first place..
How old are you pbassjo? and if you are SO sure of yourself then why don't you provide some evidence that actually holds some sort of bearing on this convo..
It's a waste with little haters like you, I love the nsx, and I think out of the viper/esprit/nsx the nsx is the best built, most reasonable car there is. I can even point out the downsides..
Esprit - maintenance is a bitch.. car has issues and always will requires attention at the level of ferrari and lamborghini, can be a headache
Viper - raw torque, goes through rear tires YEARLY at best and frighteningly bad handling with no clue where the limit is = bad overall design, 8.0 liter engine that only produces 450 HP?!?! <-- bad american design
Nsx - Just as exotic, maintenance is minimal comapred to the two, brilliantly designed..Handles among the best supercars out there..
The lotus is 94k base price new
Viper is 88k
NSX is 88k
I would say the best bang for the buck is the NSX.. I said that before.. but it's not faster stock than the esprit or the viper.. not straighline.. but honestly is straightline that important?
a side note with the esprit, the ONLY reason the car is at 350hp stock is the fact that the renault gearbox can't handle more without risk, and cheapass lotus didn't want to upgrade that for the v8.. With Johan chips/Red Race ecu that should have been stock in the car you immediately get 50-90 more hp out of it.. in reality the esprit is a 400+hp car that was crippled by lotus to save it's gearbox..
This sort of thing happens on car forums.. if you log into an nsx forum and praise another car you get bashed..
What would be mature would be mutual respect for other cars.. For instance.. while you appreciate your nsx.. don't start making fools notions up that you can't substantiate..
For instance I have tossed in a shitload of facts and information.. and all pbassjo can do is toss out insults that hold no bearing to the point he brought up in the first place..
How old are you pbassjo? and if you are SO sure of yourself then why don't you provide some evidence that actually holds some sort of bearing on this convo..
It's a waste with little haters like you, I love the nsx, and I think out of the viper/esprit/nsx the nsx is the best built, most reasonable car there is. I can even point out the downsides..
Esprit - maintenance is a bitch.. car has issues and always will requires attention at the level of ferrari and lamborghini, can be a headache
Viper - raw torque, goes through rear tires YEARLY at best and frighteningly bad handling with no clue where the limit is = bad overall design, 8.0 liter engine that only produces 450 HP?!?! <-- bad american design
Nsx - Just as exotic, maintenance is minimal comapred to the two, brilliantly designed..Handles among the best supercars out there..
The lotus is 94k base price new
Viper is 88k
NSX is 88k
I would say the best bang for the buck is the NSX.. I said that before.. but it's not faster stock than the esprit or the viper.. not straighline.. but honestly is straightline that important?
a side note with the esprit, the ONLY reason the car is at 350hp stock is the fact that the renault gearbox can't handle more without risk, and cheapass lotus didn't want to upgrade that for the v8.. With Johan chips/Red Race ecu that should have been stock in the car you immediately get 50-90 more hp out of it.. in reality the esprit is a 400+hp car that was crippled by lotus to save it's gearbox..
pbassjo said:
This type of non-informational comparsions based on impressions and opinions without any facts or data is pointless.
Assuming that the NSX is the all out best car on earth is ignorant. It holds its own due to its Reliabilty with performance and timeless design.
But we all must agree its dated by todays New performance standards in Exoitics. Because in reality real exotics buyers never, and will never walk into the Ferrari or Lambo dealer and ask ---is it reliable? No? Ok ill pass and wait for the next NSX!-- Come on get grip! Its a great car and will always be a favorite and the best for my needs/wants in a DD Exotic but thats really its forte. Be honest im not bashing the NSX at all its my favorite afordable supercar, but lets face it there are better Exotics and few better looking cars, but most of us love what we can afford comfortably. Im sure if we had 100 pots to piss in, we would all be driving 150k plus cars not caring about $8k clutch or $10k year maintnance, but we would still love the NSX DD we drive every day.
Truce?
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SexyNsx
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AndyNSX said:
Yeah.. which is why you need to be VERY careful when you drive my car for instance.. if you speed shift it too hard too often you are replacing 2nd gear etc.
I am careful who I let borrow the car and I ALWAYS mention not to speed shift it in the 1-2 shift especially, since the extra hp on my car will break the gearbox.. of course that cock patricio didn't listen and now he owes me 8k.. oh well..
SexyNsx said:
LOL!! :biggrin: your nuts! Im nicer to your car than my own.:wink: with exception of scraping the hell out of that front lip thank god its urethane. Next time your cars the shop (every week) get somonlese to drive you.:biggrin:
I still think my blender is faster than yours.
That nsx sure does look sharp. Anyone have any idea how much that type of job would cost? I'd rather just have the nsx-t but obviously this guy wanted to be unique. You're already being unique buying an nsx. It's such a rare car and it's hard to compare it with viper. Yes they're much more faster and kill it torque wise..but it's a dodge..if you look at an ordinary dodge, neon, stratus etc. you'll notice the same features contributed to the viper. I'm just not crazy about them.
Dream blender....
Here is my take.
Stock: V8 esprit will beat a NSX without much troulbe in the straight line. The NSX will outhandle the esprit. (see R&T test by andretti).
Now, my experience with a Lotus Esprit was an 89 with the "chargecooler". Acelleration was good, probably faster than a stock NSX, but EVERYTHING else was horrible. It was honestly one of the worst cars I have ever driven. The interior was horrid and The gearbox was complete garbage.
That being said, I would really like to try a 2003+. I think they look great, the interior is much improved (looks more like a NSX), but I don't know about the gearbox.
If I had a Lotus dealer close, I would consider buying it.
Stock: V8 esprit will beat a NSX without much troulbe in the straight line. The NSX will outhandle the esprit. (see R&T test by andretti).
Now, my experience with a Lotus Esprit was an 89 with the "chargecooler". Acelleration was good, probably faster than a stock NSX, but EVERYTHING else was horrible. It was honestly one of the worst cars I have ever driven. The interior was horrid and The gearbox was complete garbage.
That being said, I would really like to try a 2003+. I think they look great, the interior is much improved (looks more like a NSX), but I don't know about the gearbox.
If I had a Lotus dealer close, I would consider buying it.
NetViper said:
Well said, I too use that article for refrence often to compare Viper, 996-C4 and Zenardi, Esprit.
Here is the link:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/rt9906.htm
We have to take into consideration that that NSX was a Zanardi edition
which as we know, even though there are slight improvments such as tighter suspension and a 150lbs wight loss it is comparable to a lightly modded NSX. Which obviously 13.3 stock zanardi and .94 lateral hold is not quite like average stock 91-94 doing 13.7-8 1/4s. Comparing Any other NSX to the Esprit, I would expect that if the road and track comparison was a Normal NSX VS 2000 Esprit, The esprit would have to have an advantage. 150lbs is a big diffrence going around the track. Plus if you lightly modded a Esprit for lets say $4k you would add about 80rwhp now not even handeling would save the NSX on any track.
Reguardless:
I would still rather CTSC the NSX come back another day and serve SexyNSXs Esprit its ass. And still be more reliable.
Hey I love the NSX and wouldent buy a Esprit over a NSX but I am not biased.
I have my eye on another NSX right now and may be wireing over a deposit by tues, or wed. Almost there.:biggrin:
Esprit is a POS anyway :biggrin: J/K Smile there bud, SexyNSX. Im available any day you need yours dropped off at the dealer for its monthy checkup/duty tax.:wink:
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bah, come to San Diego and try out my car .
Bat™
.Bat™
