New Corvette hurt NC sales?

[BATMANs]

You’re mixing rumors. It’s rumored to either be TT or a NA flat plane crank v8. Some people think it will be a track tool like the c6z lightweight with 550hp others think it will be more like the c7z high HP forced induction.

flat plane crank engines aren’t really reliable if it’s an FPC count me out. I don’t need another c6z with random motor failures because of bad design (valve guides wearing out due to head angle). I have a deposit down for one but I’m losing interest because I now doubt it even comes out until 2023 since GM barely launched the c8 in 2020 and the economy is soft.

The Z06 will bring 650 HP and 600 lb-ft to the party, with a 5.5-liter V8. It will be followed by the first Corvette hybrid ever, the Grand Sport, expected in 2023, pairing a 6.2-liter V8 engine with an electric motor for a total output of 600 HP and 500 lb-ft of torque. A year later, it will be the ZR1’s turn with a 5.5-liter V8 and no electrification, making 850 HP and 825 lb-ft of torque.

 

[Gattiman]

The Z06 will bring 650 HP and 600 lb-ft to the party, with a 5.5-liter V8. It will be followed by the first Corvette hybrid ever, the Grand Sport, expected in 2023, pairing a 6.2-liter V8 engine with an electric motor for a total output of 600 HP and 500 lb-ft of torque. A year later, it will be the ZR1’s turn with a 5.5-liter V8 and no electrification, making 850 HP and 825 lb-ft of torque.

That’s all rumor though. Grand sport never has its own unique drive train. It doesn’t really sell enough for that in the first place. Makes no sense. Hybrid won’t be cost effective either.

 

[nsx_2k]

The NSX 2.0 killed itself. It was doomed from the beginning. Looking at the $150k-$200k range and the options that were available, no chance.

I’ve said this multiple times. If Honda built a non-hybrid, twin turbo V6 with approximately 500hp with a reasonable weight for <$100k, we wouldn’t be talking about a death right now.

You nailed it! Couldn't agree with you more. This is what those who I know that are in Honda/Acura sales have stated for years. In particular, the complexity of the hybrid drivetrain with the resultant marginal performance gain isn't well received by a sizeable pool of buyers. The failure of the NSX 2.0 is sad cause it is quite an attractive car.

 

[Gattiman]

You nailed it! Couldn't agree with you more. This is what those who I know that are in Honda/Acura sales have stated for years. In particular, the complexity of the hybrid drivetrain with the resultant marginal performance gain isn't well received by a sizeable pool of buyers. The failure of the NSX 2.0 is sad cause it is quite an attractive car.

Awd is never a marginal performance gain especially for the street. I don’t even understand that frame of thinking. You can be disappointed it’s a hybrid I guess but it really doesn’t matter how it’s done and the hybrid parts have a 15 year warranty.

awd in itself is a huge boon for road cars. And the cheapest awd sports car afaik is 125k. If they went rwd only they would be competing against the corvette directly. Not many survive that. The first NSX didn’t. They probably thought they could hold their own against Porsche which is another bad bet.

 

[nsx_2k]

I believe you misunderstood me. I didn't say that I or others had any issue with AWD, rather the hybrid system. Also, not sure I would agree that the NSX was done in by the Corvette (C4/C5). Quite different vehicles that I doubt people cross-shopped. I know I didn't. Also, I thought that the 458 & R8 were more direct competitors to the new NSX which seems more appropriate. The focus of this thread is that with GM altering the Corvette platform dramatically, it insinuated itself into the mid-engine crowd and its potential effect on the sales of the new NSX.

You have to admit the reception the C8 has received from the media and importantly the consumers is wildly different than what the new NSX achieved. The first NSX was in extreme demand for a number of years after it first came out so I would say that it was indeed a sales success. New NSX not so.

 

[Gattiman]

I believe you misunderstood me. I didn't say that I or others had any issue with AWD, rather the hybrid system. Also, not sure I would agree that the NSX was done in by the Corvette (C4/C5). Quite different vehicles that I doubt people cross-shopped. I know I didn't. Also, I thought that the 458 & R8 were more direct competitors to the new NSX which seems more appropriate. The focus of this thread is that with GM altering the Corvette platform dramatically, it insinuated itself into the mid-engine crowd and its potential effect on the sales of the new NSX.

You have to admit the reception the C8 has received from the media and importantly the consumers is wildly different than what the new NSX achieved. The first NSX was in extreme demand for a number of years after it first came out so I would say that it was indeed a sales success. New NSX not so.

The first NSX was not a sales success according to Acura. It never sold more than 2k units per year and was definitely cross shopped with the corvette. Just like the c8 currently is even though now atleast the NSX shares more with an exotic than a c8. The previous NSX was a simpler car that very much so paralleled with the corvette.

The R8’s sales are interesting since they are terribly unreliable. I’m surprised people keep buying them. I learned my lesson with Audi’s when I bought an RS7 new. It was in the shop 1/3 of the time I owned it.

 

[The King]

Don't forget VAG's years of touting their clean diesels as the answer to all our automotive environmental issues. I don't understand why anyone would want to give this poor excuse for a car company any of their money going forward.

 

[buckeyensx]

I will probably cross shop a used 2017+ NSX and the new C8.

As the 2017+ NSXs drift down in value, they will likely get close to what a nicely equipped C8 costs new. I have no idea when but hopefully soon.

I am starting to ask myself which one would I rather have.

I bet I am not the only one considering this.

 

[stormrider]

I will probably cross shop a used 2017+ NSX and the new C8.

As the 2017+ NSXs drift down in value, they will likely get close to what a nicely equipped C8 costs new. I have no idea when but hopefully soon.

I am starting to ask myself which one would I rather have.

I bet I am not the only one considering this.

C8, I love open top. I wish the NSX 2.0 have that.

 

[drmanny3]

I cannot imagine that Acura/Honda will ever approve an open top let alone a T Top of sorts. The car has great lines as it is, which is why people continue to lust for one. Many seem to complain about what they believe the car is not and should be. Buy the Corvette and be prepared for buyers remorse as its commonality, build quality, and price depreciation come into play. Given the small numbers of NSXs out there versus the number of Corvettes-take a guess as to what the Corvette will be worth in 5 years vs the NSX. Can you imagine the Corvette rising in price? Really?

 

[Z06nsxcts]

I cannot imagine that Acura/Honda will ever approve an open top let alone a T Top of sorts. The car has great lines as it is, which is why people continue to lust for one. Many seem to complain about what they believe the car is not and should be. Buy the Corvette and be prepared for buyers remorse as its commonality, build quality, and price depreciation come into play. Given the small numbers of NSXs out there versus the number of Corvettes-take a guess as to what the Corvette will be worth in 5 years vs the NSX. Can you imagine the Corvette rising in price? Really?

I don’t think many people are “ lusting” after a second gen NSX. It is a more attractive car than the C8 and likely better built but the C8 offers so much more for the money.

All cars with few exceptions depreciate. New NSX were already depreciated by Acura with 30k incentives. It will be interesting to see what the values of these cars will be when they start getting up in miles and the valve service is due...


MC

 

[LJSB]

I like the 2020 NSX. I'd rather have that than the C8 Corvette. Waiting for mine to be built. I don't care what a magazine racing, flat brimmed, backwards baseball cap wearing dude with a bun thinks of my choice. :biggrin:

 

[The King]

It should not come as a huge surprise to many on here, that a new NSX is way more desirable for a lot of us than a Vette. This is after all an NSX forum. I grew up on first gen Accords and watching Honda kick ass in F1 and Indy cars at the same time. All that time building economical, bullet proof, great handling, fun to drive cars. They talked to me in ways that nothing from North America could. All muscle cars from that era could do was go fast in a straight line. They were not great in the corners, brakes were adequate at best, and they sucked gas like no tomorrow.

Joe, just make sure you don't get one of those fancy colours on your new NSX. Not sure where you'd go to get a scratch blended properly.

 

[stormrider]

I don’t think many people are “ lusting” after a second gen NSX. It is a more attractive car than the C8 and likely better built but the C8 offers so much more for the money.

All cars with few exceptions depreciate. New NSX were already depreciated by Acura with 30k incentives. It will be interesting to see what the values of these cars will be when they start getting up in miles and the valve service is due...


MC

100% agree!

 

[docjohn]

If you are a sports car guy stretching to afford the nsx then the vette feels better....If the wallet allows you to comfortably shop in the 150 range then not so much....

 

[dc1edh]

Took the NSX to Napa to curbside pickup our wine club shipments. We got thumbs up from some Porsche guys, a guy in a Lamborghini Gallardo, and some guys in a Camaro (didn’t expect that). I’m not sure the same would have happened if I was driving a Vette.

 

[drmanny3]

If you are a sports car guy stretching to afford the nsx then the vette feels better....If the wallet allows you to comfortably shop in the 150 range then not so much....

Yes, well said.

 

[41really53]

Not sure why anything rises in value as it becomes worn out and obsolete. But, I didn't understand Beany Babies either .

 

[Gattiman]

Limited number of cars. Look at resale on the newest vipers and that car isn’t even that fast compared to the NSX or even the c7z. Scarcity matters.

 

[drmanny3]

With respect to scarcity. As a consultant in Lean over the years I have seen many companies attempt to implement lean with only the profit motive in mind. As an example there was a Women's high end purse selling for $5000 a pop in France. The purse was hand made by a few and could only be produced in small quantities. There was a long waiting line as every one made was sold. The company wanted to implement Lean so that they could copy what the few did and make many. Their idea was to dramatically increase production so that they could sell many more. Little did they realize that it was the scarcity of the purses and how they were made that made them so desirable. You don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. I really like Ferrari, but will probably not purchase one, not because I cannot afford it but because it is not a car I associate myself with image wise. Having said that, I admire Ferrari as they have been careful not to overbuild their cars (killing the Golden Goose) They generally limit the total number of cars each year and make it up on price. They are one of the smarter brands. Greed is poison to so many things. If you only consider the short term you will generally make poor decisions. While boring you need a short term, medium term, and long term views. Stock price and stock options are the vain of Corporate America. They have caused more short term thinking and ultimate failure than anything that comes to mind over the last century. I respect Honda, Toyota, and a number of other organizations that focus on providing a product or service that meets the needs of the consumer. You can argue all day that NSX is a failure, but God do I enjoy driving mine! Companies don't make money they provide products and services that others pay for.

 

[docjohn]

brand loyalty.....Acura has it with SUV's......:wink:..............

 

[Gattiman]

I don’t think many people are “ lusting” after a second gen NSX. It is a more attractive car than the C8 and likely better built but the C8 offers so much more for the money.

All cars with few exceptions depreciate. New NSX were already depreciated by Acura with 30k incentives. It will be interesting to see what the values of these cars will be when they start getting up in miles and the valve service is due...


MC

How many will even get to 75k miles. That’s a lot of miles for a sports car. Look at GTRs and their value. They have a brake job that’s ridiculously expensive and the transmission is a nightmare.

I’d imagine the value will stay up there. It’s more desirable than Z06’s in their years and those stay in the 40s-60s. Hyper limited beyond 2017. I’d think it will follow the NSX gen 1 where they depreciated and no one wanted them until Acura stopped making them. Then they started appreciating and became hyper desirable. People would laugh at the NSX after the c5z came out at first, then attitudes changed when it became super rare. The JDM crowd is a different animal. They are like the viper crowd.

 

[Z06nsxcts]

How many will even get to 75k miles. That’s a lot of miles for a sports car. Look at GTRs and their value. They have a brake job that’s ridiculously expensive and the transmission is a nightmare.

I’d imagine the value will stay up there. It’s more desirable than Z06’s in their years and those stay in the 40s-60s. Hyper limited beyond 2017. I’d think it will follow the NSX gen 1 where they depreciated and no one wanted them until Acura stopped making them. Then they started appreciating and became hyper desirable. People would laugh at the NSX after the c5z came out at first, then attitudes changed when it became super rare. The JDM crowd is a different animal. They are like the viper crowd.

You mean the same JDM crowd that absolutely trashed the NC1 because it wasn’t just like the “old” NSX ...


MC

 

[Gattiman]

You mean the same JDM crowd that absolutely trashed the NC1 because it wasn’t just like the “old” NSX ...


MC

You’re Kind of proving my point here. The reaction to this NSX is basically the same as the reaction to the old one while it was in production.

 

[docjohn]

the press looooved the first nsx...... upon introduction of NC1 the initial reviews were lukewarm....