Serious question -- Difference between 300k mi NSX and 100k mi NSX?

[Ski_Banker]

Ok, I'd love to hear any and all opinions but this is really a question for our NSX-god mechanics on Prime.


What is the difference between an NSX with 300k miles and one with 100k miles?


Obviously, the paint/exterior/leather is going to be more beat up. And the engine will have more use (but, with a compression check, doesn't that perfectly show how solid a normal engine is??)

Basically, here's my question:
A 300k mile NSX will likely have a weaker motor than most NSXs. And it might need repainting. But, if you were to rebuild the engine and repaint/detail, what would be the difference between a 91 NSX with 100k miles and one with 300k miles? What else would (potentially) need to be replaced on the high mileage old NSX that wouldn't on the normal mileage *old* one (assume clutches, tires, shocks, brake pads, stereo, window regs, etc. are normal replacement wear n tear items)?

 

[fullracehonda]

suspension bushings, motor mounts, possibly some rubber seals(like trunk seal, etc) some ofother parts may be worn/on the brink of disaster like tranny syncros/gears, bearings, valvetrain, normal wear/use items like dizzy, oil pan gasket, window regulators, heater, ac,


those would all have alot more than the normal amount of use so they may have to be addressed sometime soon, or maybe never, plus youll have a car with ALOT of miles.



but it would be good canadate for race car

you know of one for sale?

 

[Ski_Banker]

No, I don't know of a specific example of a very (ie, >200k mi) high mileage car for sale, and I'm personally not in the market. But, I have a buddy that I've convinced (rightfully) to purchase the greatest (formerly) exotic sportscar on the planet. But he can't afford a newer one. No big deal, I said. These cars are bulletproof. With the exception of some silly things like window regulators and trunk struts, these cars will last for decades. I believe in the tank-like build quality of these cars, without fail. They were built for WWI combat on R compound racing slicks.

BUT, I want my NSX friends/recruits to be 100% informed of what could be reasonably expected to go wrong on an older NSX.

SO
For you guys that have owned early 90s NSXs for a while (at least a year, please don't respond if you just recently bought yours...it won't help here)
-- what can one expect to spend on maintenance per year? What items have your purchased? Refurb items?

Just post your experiences. BUT please be fair and realistic. No one cares if your 2005 NSX has been flawless (it better be) or if the 1991 NSX you purchased last week has been "a maintenance free dream boat" since you don't have any perspective.

 

[davidf]

When you purchase a 200/300K NSX you have to automaticly assume theres has been some maintanance performed in the past. TB/WP's, 1,2, maybe even 3 clutches, possible trans. work/replacement at some point. You have to take in account whats been done most recently. Hell you might find theres been alot done as prevenative maintanace. That would be a major plus. It's doubtful you'll find a 300k car with everything untouched, very doubtful. Maintanance down the road will depend on previous maint. already done. I guess my biggest concern would be axleshafts, front/rear wheel bearings, tierods, fuel pump, radiator, {300k can be nasty on a radiator}.

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

Better have about $3-$5K extra for regular maintenance.

However, everytime I need to have something fixed, I usually try to upgrade over OEM. Hence, it gives me a reason to mod the car, and in the end the car is literally better than new (once fixed). Eventually, the newer cars will suffer the same faith due to fading parts over time (even with lower mileage).

 

[Hugh]

Serious question -- Difference between 300k mi NSX and 100k mi NSX?

And the serious answer is.............................


drumroll please.........................


200,000 Miles!

What do I win?

 

[Cozmo]

And the serious answer is.............................


drumroll please.........................


200,000 Miles!

What do I win?

lol

You win the Mathematician of The Day Award. Congrats! :biggrin:

In all seriousness... the limiting factor for me is going to be 100k miles max since the bank won't give me a loan for any car with more miles than that. So unless I want to save up $30k in cash that'll have to do. Not that I'm searching for a high mileage car anyway.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

I have 127k on mine. Stuff that HAD to be done on mine....

Cam seals,
Clutch
Timing belt/water pump
Brake Master Cylinder
tires
trunk strusts
passenger window regulator

 

[scorp965]

I imagine the answer to this question will depend significantly on the level of care the owner decided to provide for his nsx; a 300k mile fully-serviced Honda could be more reliable than a 100k mile Honda with deferred maintinance.

Generically speaking, the nsx is a reliable car, and even high mileage examples are capable of producing strong power levels on a dynometer. I would be more concerned with the service history of a car, or the overall appearance of the car, than I would be with its age, or mileage.

Once you start entering uncharted territory (eg 150k miles+), you might take additional steps to protect yourself, such as a compression or leak down test, and I would be more demanding with regard to details about the service history (timing belt). At high mileage the snap ring is no longer a concern, as if it were going to fail it already would have, but most of the older nsx's have notchy gearboxes, so perhaps this would be something to budget cash towards replacing.

I think, if you're immersed into these cars to the point most of us are, you know most everything about them, and if you take even just the slightest level of care in selecting one, its kind of hard to go wrong. If anything, a 300k mile nsx shows the car was built with such a high level of quality that it was able to traverse those 300,000 miles - certainly it should be capable of banging out 50k more?

 

[davidg]

Regardless of miles I think it would be difficult to find a car that needed nothing for less than 25,000 dollars.

 

[scorp965]

Regardless of miles I think it would be difficult to find a car that needed nothing for less than 25,000 dollars.

This is also an interesting point; I have noticed some higher mileage nsx's (160k+) which sell for a low amount, around $20-22k, and appear to be clean in pictures (ebay, craigslist, etc.), only to showup back for sale a month or two later.

There must be some reason for these "hot potatoes", perhaps its deferred maintenance, or buyer remorse?

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Regardless of miles I think it would be difficult to find a car that needed nothing for less than 25,000 dollars.

Maintenace record is very important especially when major components come to play. We all know these cars last a long time, but without records there is always that what if, I agree at $25 your looking at timing service or clutch at minimum possible repaint.

 

[MANIACura]

I've had a '91 for about a year now. It had 86,000 miles on it and now has 94,000. Below is a list of things I have replaced or maintenance that has been performed in the year I have owned it. Most of the things I have replaced are pretty common failures judging by the amount of posts on NSX Prime. I am hoping things will settle down for a while. If you can do the maintenance yourself like I did, it will help keep costs down. I would hate to think how much this stuff cost if you pay someone else to do it. This may give you an idea of what to expect:

Seats reupholstered - Verdones - $670.67
Clutch/throw-out bearing replaced - $1245.00
Speaker amplifiers rebuilt - Self- $27.62
Window regulator rebuilt (passenger) - Self - $32.01
Window switch rebuilt (passenger) - Self - $0.00
Interior door handle replaced (driver) - Self - $51.89
Trunk struts replaced - Self - $97.23
Brake rotors replaced - Self - $260.85
Valve cover seals replaced - Self- $60.87
VTEC solenoids rebuilt - Self - $40.84
Fuel Injectors Cleaned & Blueprinted/Seals replaced - Self/RC Eng - $119.73
Rear bank coils replaced - Self - $231.91
Engine hatch struts replaced - Self - $106.60
Climate Control Unit rebuilt - Self - $32.78
Air intake bellows replaced - Self - $95.43
Transaxle seal replaced - Tokyo Imports - $225.71
Battery replaced - Self - $68.01
Throttle body cleaned/rebuilt - Self - $15.87
ABS System & solenoids flushed - Self/OldMnNSX - $21.35
Brake/Clutch fluid replaced - Self - $22.01
Vehicle speed sensor replaced - Self - $133.84
Main relay replaced - Self - $70.33
Ignition switch replaced - Self - $62.98
Fuel filter replaced - Self - $30.38

Make sure if you're buying a '91 or '92:
Transmission is not in snap ring range
Window fix-it thingies installed
Timing Belt/water pump done
How many miles on current A/C compressor

Let me know if you want to know any of the above failures/symptoms and why the parts needed to be replaced.

-Matt

 

[NSXFRIEND]

I would not consider the following commen failure parts(6&7arguable), but good job on keeping track.

1. Seats reupholstered - Verdones
2. Interior door handle
3. Fuel Injectors Cleaned & Blueprinted/Seals
4. Rear bank coils replaced
5. Air intake bellows replaced
6. Transaxle seal replaced
7. Vehicle speed sensor

I am assuming your clutch master cylinder and expansion tank has been replaced? Here is my list. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104278

 

[MANIACura]

I would not consider the following commen failure parts(6&7arguable), but good job on keeping track.

1. Seats reupholstered - Verdones
2. Interior door handle
3. Fuel Injectors Cleaned & Blueprinted/Seals
4. Rear bank coils replaced
5. Air intake bellows replaced
6. Transaxle seal replaced
7. Vehicle speed sensor

I am assuming your clutch master cylinder and expansion tank has been replaced? Here is my list. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104278

You're intitled to your opinion but they are very common issues on older NSX's.

1. Bolster wear (especially drivers side) on any high mileage NSX is ALWAYS an issue.
2. Interior door handles breaking is also very common-thats why Dali and SOS both sell billet aluminum replacement pieces for the part that breaks.
3. Several older NSX's have reported leaking injector seals resulting in engine fires. Also two of my injectors were so clogged they were dripping. Big thread on this if you search.
4. Bad seal on the rear bank allows water into the rear coil area every time you wash your car. Several people on Prime have experienced this and the misfiring coil has burned up their valves. $$$
5. Bellows cracked - Ok I don't know how common this is.
6. It is also common for an NSX that has the clutch replaced to also experience leakage from the drivers side transaxle seal if its not replaced.
7. Vehicle speed sensor going bad also very common on the '91.

On most of these failures.....all I had to do is SEARCH and I found thread after thread of NSX owners that experienced the same failures. I only listed the maintenance performed while I have owned the vehicle. There are many more that were waranteed by ACURA. I have every record on this car since new.

 

[Ski_Banker]

Thanks for the inputs. I guess my original question was a little stupid -- what fails on a 300k miles NSX? A bunch of mickey mouse stuff (that adds up though) that breaks.

 

[NSX2398]

I have a '91 that's about to turn 150k miles. Expensive things that people haven't mentioned already are:
1. Air conditioning problems - it's probably $500-$700 to have compressor replaced and upgraded to R134...and if it's already blown and left debris in the lines, it's going to be much more. And if the evaporator needs fixing, then it's really going to get expensive.
2. Most of my miles are highway miles but at about 130k, my tie-rod ends started showing some play and, unfortunately, you have to end up replacing the whole spindle because the end bushings are pressed into the spindle at the factory and can't be replace. Total for two spindles, labour,etc was about $1500
3. I suspect that you'd want to have a good look at the CV boots on the drive shaft and maybe even have the joints replaced. I haven't done this but suspect that it would be big $$
4. If the ABS system acts up and can't be fixed with exercising and flushing, then that's going to be an expensive item. The upgrade kit from SOS is DIY but about $1500 for just the hardware.

As someone who bought at 91K, my tip would be to get one that has just had the major service done (TB/WP/etc) and hopefully the clutch. The closer these cars get to 100K, the more quickly the price drops off. And if you're not fussy, an automatic is probably even less.
...Ian