Thinking about buying a couple of firearms (need suggestions)

[SWIFTVISION]

I have a small collection of handguns. I LOVE my sig. It is only a 380 so the stopping power is not that of a 45, but hey you don't need the stopping power with a gun as accurate as a sig.

I disagree completely with that statement and would even go as far to say that a 380 is not even an effective defense weapon, just like a 22lr. The penatration of a 380 is so bad you might not even get through leather jackets.

If you are carrying this to potentially save your life, then get at a minimum a 9mm. With 9mm Ranger SXT's or Speer Gold Dots +p+'s, you can get a hole as big as a 45acp.

 

[KooLaid]

40 cal, best of both worlds in terms of accuracy and stopping power. Use hydrashock rounds. No worries about stopping power, will turn anything it hits into goo.

I use a 40 cal Glock model 22 w/ 15 round clip. Not my favorite but the price was right. I prefer the 1911 style guns. XD40 is also a nice gun.

Anyone ever try these or know any factual information about the "extreme shock" rounds?

 

[steveny]

I disagree completely with that statement and would even go as far to say that a 380 is not even an effective defense weapon, just like a 22lr. The penatration of a 380 is so bad you might not even get through leather jackets.

If you are carrying this to potentially save your life, then get at a minimum a 9mm. With 9mm Ranger SXT's or Speer Gold Dots +p+'s, you can get a hole as big as a 45acp.

That was my point. You don't need to shoot through a leather jacket when you can hit the eye at 20 feet away. I can pick off playing cards at 50 feet.

 

[steveny]

I disagree completely with that statement and would even go as far to say that a 380 is not even an effective defense weapon, just like a 22lr. The penatration of a 380 is so bad you might not even get through leather jackets.

If you are carrying this to potentially save your life, then get at a minimum a 9mm. With 9mm Ranger SXT's or Speer Gold Dots +p+'s, you can get a hole as big as a 45acp.

...also stopping power means nothing if you don't hit the target.

 

[NsXMas]

Just to clarify, the civilian AR-15 or the semi-automatic version of the military M-4 is not an assault rifle.

An assault rifle is something that is not pistol caliber, has burst or automatic firing mode. Look up the definition in Wikipedia if you're unsure.

Let's not spread the misconception that civilians have assault rifles. To do so, you must have a class (2 or 3?) license, pay a federal tax stamp, undergo severe background checks, to own one.

The semi-automatic AR is merely a rifle, not an assault rifle.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

Anyone ever try these or know any factual information about the "extreme shock" rounds?

Yes, they don't work. Total marketing.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

Just to clarify, the civilian AR-15 or the semi-automatic version of the military M-4 is not an assault rifle.

An assault rifle is something that is not pistol caliber, has burst or automatic firing mode. Look up the definition in Wikipedia if you're unsure.

Let's not spread the misconception that civilians have assault rifles. To do so, you must have a class (2 or 3?) license, pay a federal tax stamp, undergo severe background checks, to own one.

The semi-automatic AR is merely a rifle, not an assault rifle.

First off, there are NO assult rifles. It's a made up term by the Clinton Admin. to vilify a type of military style rifle. There are magizine fed semi auto rifles and there are machine guns or select fire machine guns.

Civialians can own full auto. I have a FULL AUTO M16 sitting at home. You don't need a lisense but do need to have the machine gun registered to you on a form 4. As for the background check....if you can pass a check to buy a handgun, you can get a full auto. You do have to have the Chief of police of your county sign the form too, but it's not that big of deal.

Oh yea, machine guns cost a lot. My M16 is worth about $16,000.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

That was my point. You don't need to shoot through a leather jacket when you can hit the eye at 20 feet away. I can pick off playing cards at 50 feet.

You have clearly never had training on defensive handgun shooting.

 

[NsXMas]

First off, there are NO assult rifles. It's a made up term by the Clinton Admin. to vilify a type of military style rifle. There are magizine fed semi auto rifles and there are machine guns or select fire machine guns.

Civialians can own full auto. I have a FULL AUTO M16 sitting at home. You don't need a lisense but do need to have the machine gun registered to you on a form 4. As for the background check....if you can pass a check to buy a handgun, you can get a full auto. You do have to have the Chief of police of your county sign the form too, but it's not that big of deal.

Oh yea, machine guns cost a lot. My M16 is worth about $16,000.

Not to get too technical about this, but there is an official terminology called "assault rifle", as defined by wikipedia.

PS - this defines why commercial (civilian) versions are not assault rifles...

Semi-automatic rifles, including commercial versions of the AR-15, and "automatic" rifles limited to firing single shots are not assault rifles as they are not selective fire.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

Not to get too technical about this, but there is an official terminology called "assault rifle", as defined by wikipedia.

PS - this defines why commercial (civilian) versions are not assault rifles...

Never back up info from anything from "wikipedia".

You do know you can just make up stuff in there right?

 

[NsXMas]

Never back up info from anything from "wikipedia".

You do know you can just make up stuff in there right?

Yes, but note the extensive list of references and notes as well.

This stuff is regularly checked and independently verified by people around the world. In fact it's updated more than any printed reference products. I use it to back up stuff all the time, because this stuff is thoroughly reviewed for inaccuracies.

If you think it's wrong, feel free to go and correct it.

PS - The term "Assault Rifle" was coined in WWII, by Adolf Hitler, to describe the MP-43 (Sturmgewehr, meaning Assault Rifle). Source. Sounds like you got your sources wrong.

PPS - I got a chance to fire a MP-43 once, along with the MP-40, and the heavy duty German machine MG34. Those were the funnest times I ever had on the range.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

"Sturmgewehr" is the worlds first select fire rifle....not "assault rifle". If anything the term "assault rifle" means a Sturmgewehr. The word “assault” is a human action, and has no bearing on the actual description of any firearm. The popular “assault rifle” term, was coined in 1994 with the Clinton “Assault rifle ban” were as anything that looked scary or could carry a magazine greater then 10 rounds was labeled an assault rifle.

Not quite sure why you are trying to argue with me here, I know what I'm talking about and your backing up your statements on a VERY technically subject from a very general info source. Just like your not going to find the most intiment details of the NSX on Wikipedia either. If you don’t believe me, even though AR15’s are essential my life, please go to www.ar15.com and post "is a M-16 an assault rifle?"....LOL, have fun.

Oh yea, how many “assault rifles” do you own?

 

[SWIFTVISION]

PPS - I got a chance to fire a MP-43 once, along with the MP-40, and the heavy duty German machine MG34. Those were the funnest times I ever had on the range.

Well...if you want to go there...

I'll one up that:

Here's a video of me shooting a MG42 from the hip!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

 

[NsXMas]

Well...if you want to go there...

I'll one up that:

Here's a video of me shooting a MG42 from the hip!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

Very nice. :wink:

I've been on AR15 and Glocktalk (member of the black rifle club) and other sites for many years. I don't post much, don't care to get into the debates about whose dick is bigger, but I do glean much information there.

You're swinging your weight around here. Just know that many of us are not lightweights either. :wink:

PS - even though I've built ARs, I currently don't own any.

PPS - I'm looking at the LWRC vs POF (close to my NSX) vs Hk416 (law enforcement buddies), so evaluating if the pistons are better or not... Might check out the M6...

 

[SWIFTVISION]

OR here's me shooting an actual Stehrmgewher....


:biggrin: Yes, thats full auto....

 

[NsXMas]

"Sturmgewehr" is the worlds first select fire rifle....not "assault rifle". If anything the term "assault rifle" means a Sturmgewehr. The word “assault” is a human action, and has no bearing on the actual description of any firearm. The popular “assault rifle” term, was coined in 1994 with the Clinton “Assault rifle ban” were as anything that looked scary or could carry a magazine greater then 10 rounds was labeled an assault rifle.

Not quite sure why you are trying to argue with me here, I know what I'm talking about and your backing up your statements on a VERY technically subject from a very general info source. Just like your not going to find the most intiment details of the NSX on Wikipedia either. If you don’t believe me, even though AR15’s are essential my life, please go to www.ar15.com and post "is a M-16 an assault rifle?"....LOL, have fun.

Oh yea, how many “assault rifles” do you own?

Seriously, who cares? History says Adolf Hitler invented the term "Assault Rifle". We interpret the rest.

Who cares what a bunch of people on a forum say about whether a M-16 is or is not?

The historians credit Adolf Hitler with the term, and I'm not smart enough to discredit them.

 

[lrsudog]

Never back up info from anything from "wikipedia".

You do know you can just make up stuff in there right?

Irrespective of Wiki accuracy, there is a recognized legal definition and description of the term "Assault rifle" and "Assault Weapon" extant in the American body of law. "Assault Rifle" and "Assault Weapon" are (with some specific exceptions) any type of firearm that has a number of common characteristics that are listed in the AWB of '94, (now defunct).

As to a "made up" word, yes, it was inflammatory, but the Clintons did not coin the phrase, nor are "made up" words inherently invalid.

"Airplane", "Spyware", "Biodiesel", "Supersize" all come to mind.

BTW, I own an HK-91, and whether one calls it an "Assault Rifle" or a "cuddly teddy bear", it does exactly the same thing.

My choice for a 12 gauge would be a Benelli Super 90, and for a pistol, go with what you will be using.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

last one:

Me and my full auto, 9mm converted, M16 with scielencer:

 

[NsXMas]

Sweet pix. All mommy lets me have is my airsoft plastic uzi pistol.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

Irrespective of Wiki accuracy, there is a recognized legal definition and description of the term "Assault rifle" and "Assault Weapon" extant in the American body of law. "Assault Rifle" and "Assault Weapon" are (with some specific exceptions) any type of firearm that has a number of common characteristics that are listed in the AWB of '94, (now defunct).

Then what is an assault rifle? What makes a rifle an assault rifle? It's looks????

 

[NsXMas]

Irrespective of Wiki accuracy, there is a recognized legal definition and description of the term "Assault rifle" and "Assault Weapon" extant in the American body of law. "Assault Rifle" and "Assault Weapon" are (with some specific exceptions) any type of firearm that has a number of common characteristics that are listed in the AWB of '94, (now defunct).

As to a "made up" word, yes, it was inflammatory, but the Clintons did not coin the phrase, nor are "made up" words inherently invalid.

"Airplane", "Spyware", "Biodiesel", "Supersize" all come to mind.

BTW, I own an HK-91, and whether one calls it an "Assault Rifle" or a "cuddly teddy bear", it does exactly the same thing.

My choice for a 12 gauge would be a Benelli Super 90, and for a pistol, go with what you will be using.

Good post. The media likes to sensationalize guns by using scary words like "assault rifle", which is why it is very important to make clear what is an "assault rifle" and what is not.

 

[NsXMas]

Then what is an assault rifle? What makes a rifle an assault rifle? It's looks????

From the same wikipedia article I cited:

n a strict definition, a firearm must have all of the following five characteristics to qualify as an assault rifle:[1][2][3]

* Is a carbine sized individual weapon with provision to be fired from a shouldered position.

Barrel length is usually 400 mm to 500 mm (16” to 20”)

* Is capable of selective fire.
* Fires from a locked breech.
* Utilizes an intermediate powered-cartridge.
* Ammunition is supplied from a large capacity detachable box magazine.

Most common is a capacity of 30 rounds, sometimes 20 rounds.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

From the same wikipedia article I cited:

n a strict definition, a firearm must have all of the following five characteristics to qualify as an assault rifle:[1][2][3]

* Is a carbine sized individual weapon with provision to be fired from a shouldered position.

Barrel length is usually 400 mm to 500 mm (16” to 20”)

* Is capable of selective fire.
* Fires from a locked breech.
* Utilizes an intermediate powered-cartridge.
* Ammunition is supplied from a large capacity detachable box magazine.

Most common is a capacity of 30 rounds, sometimes 20 rounds.

Again, thats just some guys opinion.

 

[NsXMas]

Again, thats just some guys opinion.

So is everything else in this universe, if you really think about it.

Some "opinions" are just more popular than others.

 

[steveny]

So is everything else in this universe, if you really think about it.

Some "opinions" are just more popular than others.

And some aren't even worth consideration.