Which Big Brake Kit?

RYU · 16 March 2012

I actually prefer my stock NA2 setup with stock pads (or equivalent) for the street. They perform well in all weather conditions. They don't squeak. They have enough initial bite and not too grabby. They're also cheap to maintain. Like Billy said, at legal speeds and with the occassional emergency 70-0mph stop they won't fade at all and you have early (read: crappy) ABS to save you from lockup even with crappy tires. However, with a supercharger, no weight reduction, good tires, and 18/19 wheels you're at the borderline of not having enough brake torque and will increase your stopping distance from the get go. Correct my terminology if i'm wrong..

It's when you do 50-100mph to 25mph stops for a constant 20 mins is when you'll be hating life at the track. In the canyons these days I find that if i'm stopping that hard for a turn i'm simply going too fast for safety. However, the pedal pressure and modulation of a set of sorted BBKs feels like a warm blanket on a cold day up there. They're NICE. If you've got the talent and skills like Billy does then you'll be plenty fast with very little and one can manage the fade, tire temps/wear, etc on the track. Weekend hobby guys like us need the heavy equipment to even perform anywhere close to these levels because a good bbk will make it easier to modulate for example

If you use to track as you say i'm surprised you haven't experienced brake fade BATMANs.

BATMANs · 16 March 2012

RYU said:
..... However, with a supercharger, no weight reduction, good tires, and 18/19 wheels......

If you use to track as you say i'm surprised you haven't experienced brake fade BATMANs.

If you are referring to me I'm running 235/40R17 & 275/35R18 (which will be 385/35R18 on the next set).

I need to weigh my NSX when I get it back. I've added and deducted weight and lost track of where I stand.

winreboot · 16 March 2012

I think the RL brakes is another option but it could get as pricy as brembos for the custom install.. They do brake vgood.

stuntman · 16 March 2012

winreboot said:
I think the RL brakes is another option but it could get as pricy as brembos for the custom install.. They do brake vgood.

What are the piston sizes and rotor diameter?

Venom2049 · 16 March 2012

Does anyone had/have those RL calipers on their NSX?? Any feedback you guys can share??? What about titaniums dave RL kit?

RYU · 17 March 2012

Having gone thru this, mechanically fitting a bbk is the easy part. Its figuring out the proper bias and appropriate piston sizes thats more important. Who's got the piston sizes for the RLs? are the piston sizes staggered?

ozone · 17 March 2012

So BBK for:

1) track
2) FI (debatable)
3) bling if not 1 or 2

Am I getting this right?

docjohn · 17 March 2012

The majority of bbk owners are going for looks. Many track owners do fine on optimized stockers,with steel lines, track pads, extra cooling,higher temp fluids,and good driving skills.you don't need bbk just because you are FI unless you are exceeding the optimized oem setup.Now I'm sure there are plenty of folks who went right to bbk without trying to optimize the stockers.With the plethera of blingy big wheels the oem brakes do look puny.

winreboot · 17 March 2012

Venom2049 said:
Does anyone had/have those RL calipers on their NSX?? Any feedback you guys can share??? What about titaniums dave RL kit?

This kit that I have is titaniums dave RL kit. It bites very hard, and braking is very good. I never had issues with my oem brakes but RL brakes are day and night.

Venom2049 · 17 March 2012

What about this bias % that everyone talks about?? What's this bias so important ?? Sorry for the questions but I'm very knew with cars and I just got my Nsx. Thanks for any response you guys can give me.

I1O101I · 17 March 2012

Venom2049 said:
What about this bias % that everyone talks about?? What's this bias so important ?? Sorry for the questions but I'm very knew with cars and I just got my Nsx. Thanks for any response you guys can give me.

Brake Bias Table

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/cat....cfm?focus=299

Hapa88 · 17 March 2012

I1O101I said:
Brake Bias Table

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/cat....cfm?focus=299

The above link didn't work for me.. but this one seemed to work..
http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=2121#BrakeBiasTable

Basically the OEM NSX (depending on the year and model) have a brake bias front to back of between 54% to 62%. Those people that choose just BBKs on the front only generally have a higher front bias (~70%-80%). This changes the overall balance of the car when braking

The NSX, unlike most cars, was designed to have that 54% to 62% bias, so many people like to keep the bias close to the OEM bias when upgrading to a BBK.

More info on Brake Bias:
http://sports.racer.net/brake_bias.htm

Hapa88 · 17 March 2012

BATMANs said:
So I guess I need to step up to the R888 after those wear out.

If you can find them in the right NSX sizes, I say go for it!

stuntman · 17 March 2012

kuni said:
Billy, do you know the actual bias of the PFC setup? Or even the diameters + piston sizes?

Thanks!

Car - Rotor Size - Piston Size

OEM 91-96 - 282mm/282mm - 36-40/42.5mm - 61.6%

OEM 97+ - 298mm/303mm - 34-40/48mm -54.5%

JDM 2002 NSXR - 298mm/303mm - 36-40/48mm -55.7%

Brembo "Lotus" (or Indy) - 328mm/328mm - 36-40/36-40mm - 50%

Brembo "F50/Lotus" (what FXMD Developed and ran on their TA NSX with TiDave: - 328mm/328mm - 40-44/36-40mm - 55%

Stoptech F&R kit - 330mm/330mm - 34-38/28-28mm - 62.4%

Performance Friction - 355mm/355mm - 36.5-41/32-32mm - 59.5%

This is purely going off of Dali Racing's math on piston sizes to determine brake bias and does not take into consideration pad swept area, aspect ratio of the rotor, or rotor diameter which is a lever arm and greatly affects bias. But all the above rotor sizes are pretty close front and rear.

Performance Friction (PFC) came up with their brake package from their experience with the EPSON JGTC winning NSX, the FXMD Time Attack NSX, and numbers, weight distribution, tire sizes, etc... of both of these cars as well as the factory NSX to come up with what they feel is the best overall package and bias for the NSX platform even with the stock master cylinder! -Top level motorsport technology in a kit for the NSX. not 15-20year old technology or less expensive 'street' technology and manufacturing processes.

Also remember the PFC caliper is a monoblock with multi-pad technology. 4 pads per caliper (1 pad for each piston) -just like their race calipers that just won the 24 Hours of Daytona.

Keep in mind, the stickier and bigger the front tire you put on an NSX, the more front bias you will need. Keep the stock 205 width front with an old tire, and you won't need much front bias to lock it up.

0.02

liftnot · 17 March 2012

stuntman said:
Car - Rotor Size - Piston Size

OEM 91-96 - 282mm/282mm - 36-40/42.5mm - 61.6%

OEM 97+ - 298mm/303mm - 34-40/48mm -54.5%

Billy,
In addition to ALL the BBK threads here and b 4, I like to hear your angle on the weight of various BBK packages being unsprung and critical to handling. More specifically the rotor weight since its cast and rotational.

I have CE28n 17/18 high pad and I like to buy a 4 wheel kit in hope to better the braking(given) but ALSO reduce the weight compare to OEM if all possible. I cked out ST Trophy but was told by MJ that its nice but heavy since he ships those many times. I was at Nick and Coz had his car there with a spare drilled rotor(Brembo maybe?) and it was fairly light. PFC is trick enough but I don't know how much it weights.

Its one thing to spend $$ for BBK performance but while increase the unsprung so much, the handling suffers. I think better braking and w/ a lighter set up compare to oem is possible,.
I am having the same logic with coilovers. KV3 are nice but they are SS and heavy like my bilsteins. I think my only option is the JRZ RS.

I don't want to increase my unsprung and have to add more hp to make it up if I can help it even I don't track my car often.

Your thoughts?

stuntman · 17 March 2012

liftnot said:
stuntman said:

Car - Rotor Size - Piston Size

OEM 91-96 - 282mm/282mm - 36-40/42.5mm - 61.6%

OEM 97+ - 298mm/303mm - 34-40/48mm -54.5%

Billy,
In addition to ALL the BBK threads here and b 4, I like to hear your angle on the weight of various BBK packages being unsprung and critical to handling. More specifically the rotor weight since its cast and rotational.

I have CE28n 17/18 high pad and I like to buy a 4 wheel kit in hope to better the braking(given) but ALSO reduce the weight compare to OEM if all possible. I cked out ST Trophy but was told by MJ that its nice but heavy since he ships those many times. I was at Nick and Coz had his car there with a spare drilled rotor(Brembo maybe?) and it was fairly light. PFC is trick enough but I don't know how much it weights.

Its one thing to spend $$ for BBK performance but while increase the unsprung so much, the handling suffers. I think better braking and w/ a lighter set up compare to oem is possible,.
I am having the same logic with coilovers. KV3 are nice but they are SS and heavy like my bilsteins. I think my only option is the JRZ RS.

I don't want to increase my unsprung and have to add more hp to make it up if I can help it even I don't track my car often.

Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

PFC probably has the lightest caliper out there. It would be nice if we could get everyone to weigh their calipers, brackets, rotors and hats. But the pfc has the largest diameter rotor.

Unsprung weight is important but probably not as crucial to performance as much as everyone thinks. Also keep in mind that only half of the weight of a shock/spring/coilover is technically unsprung.

If youre not tracking your car, stock is probably best.

RYU · 17 March 2012

I'll post weights of my 330mm & 355mm rotora kit. They are lighter in total than the OElM. Cast iron components

HIJACKER · 18 March 2012

I know for a fact the 6-pot calipers from WPPro are actually slightly lighter than the StopTech "trophy" system. WPPro calipers are 7lb 6oz.

Also, updated with WPPro:

OEM 91-96 - 282mm/282mm - 36-40/42.5mm - 61.6%
OEM 97+ - 298mm/303mm - 34-40/48mm -54.5%
JDM 2002 NSXR - 298mm/303mm - 36-40/48mm -55.7%
Brembo "Lotus" (or Indy) - 328mm/328mm - 36-40/36-40mm - 50%
Brembo "F50/Lotus" (what FXMD Developed and ran on their TA NSX with TiDave: - 328mm/328mm - 40-44/36-40mm - 55%
Stoptech F&R kit - 330mm/330mm - 34-38/28-28mm - 62.4%
WPPro – 336mm/336mm – 35/30/24mm – 50% (I'm confirming this bias to be exact...)
Performance Friction - 355mm/355mm - 36.5-41/32-32mm - 59.5%

kuni · 18 March 2012

Great info, thanks for adding the PFC brake bias Billy... that does seem to be right in the sweet spot based on reviews I've heard.

Venom2049 · 18 March 2012

What about ksport BBK for Nsx?? They offer 4 / 6 / 8 pistons - calipers kit starting at 1500. Is this brand any good??

Venom2049 · 20 March 2012

Guess nobody likes ksport

Blue Batmobile · 10 April 2012

I went to Daliracing today to see if Racingbrake BB setup for the front will work with my wheels, and it will! Just enough clearance for the front

.

B@t

synth19 · 10 April 2012

Blue Batmobile said:
I went to Daliracing today to see if Racingbrake BB setup for the front will work with my wheels, and it will! Just enough clearance for the front .

B@t

Awesome Bat! I know of a RB vendor if you need one, let me know.....

RYU · 11 April 2012

Just had to add... Had my first track event with the 4 wheel rotora kit. I LOVE them. Was extremely pleased and paired up well with the ctsc and SOW. I cant wait to try them on a bigger track.

I know there are more expensive kits out there but at my skill level I cant imagine ever needing more (a bigger faster track will tell). Was very surprised how much I liked them.

HondaDreamS · 5 May 2012

Venom2049 said:
Guess nobody likes ksport

Just recieved my KSport kit today, Calipers and rotors look Top Notch. I purchased the 8-piston Black Caliper with 13" rotors and street pads. Hopefully I'll have them installed by the weekend. Review to follow....

Which Big Brake Kit?

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