Looking at a '91 Formula Red/Ivory - advise?

Lostbuckeye · 27 July 2015

bleudyno said:
Okay so I found another one that I'm going to take a look at tomorrow morning. White on black with 113k miles. He had the whole car repainted not too long ago and when I asked why he did that, he said he spun out one night when it was raining and hit the rear into a tree. He assure no frame damage but he replace the tail lights and rear valance to the 05 one. I ran a carfax on it and I found something a little strange. For the passed 3 years, the car would fail the smog and then pass about 2 or 3 weeks later. When I brought this up to the owner he said that there was nothing wrong and that he would just pour in a bottle of engine cleaner and take it back and it would pass. Odd to me that it happened that many years in a row. Anyone have an idea what might be he problem? He does have some sort of aftermarket exhaust on there though. He also did mention that he services his car at Niguel motors. If I called them up, do you think they would be able to look up the car history and let me know the issues they've dealt with in the past?

- - - Updated - - -

Exhaust is a Taitec GT Parallel in stainless.

Unless you are into working on your car more than driving it I would pass on this one. Too many red flags in my book unless the seller would take significantly less than market. My advice is to know exactly what you want and be patient until you find it. There is always the potential that some nice early year cars are out there that just haven't listed yet are exactly what you are looking for. And, unless you are willing to go out of state for the car of your dreams, you will have to be even more patient.

Though buying out of state has its risks, don't let it intimidate you. I've owned 2 NSXs and bought both out of state. I did not have a PPI done on either of them because I was comfortable with the following criteria.

History Report: Clean history, zero issues.
Maintenance Records: The seller was able to email me copies of the maintenance records specifically the TB/WP, fluid flushes with date and mileage.
Pictures: Complete set of the entire interior, trunk, engine bay, front bay, wheels, exterior blemishes and anything else I was concerned about.
Seller: This is just as important as maintenance IMO. Can he answer all of your questions w/o it being a big deal? Is he a Primer and if not does a fellow primer know him that will vouch for him? If you can't get comfortable with the seller, pass.

If all of that makes me comfortable and we have agreed on a price subject to inspection in writing, I'm ready to fly out to look at it and possibly buy it on the spot. The first thing I look at when I get there are the front and rear rails for evidence of collision damage. Look under the trunk liner also as in rear end collisions the trunk floor will show the repair if it wasn't done properly. You drive the car to a reputable mechanic, preferably the one who did the maintenance to make sure the car is road worthy for a long road trip even if you plan to have it shipped. If all of this meets your expectations buy the car and if you can get the time off work, drive it home. Driving your NSX home is a special adventure. It is also a way to get acquainted with the car and you can make a list of things you will want to address like minor squeaks and rattles. My 91 NSX was close to 20 yrs old when I drove it 2600 miles and I loved every minute of the drive. My 02 was 11 yrs old on a 1600 mile drive home. Same thing, I loved every minute of the drive home. And in both cases I had a small to do list of minor items I wanted to address. But, before you take that flight, make sure you have the funds ready to purchase the car and airfare to fly back home if something sours the deal. Good luck in your continued search.

JD Cross · 27 July 2015

Lostbuckeye said:
Unless you are into working on your car more than driving it I would pass on this one. Too many red flags in my book unless the seller would take significantly less than market. My advice is to know exactly what you want and be patient until you find it. There is always the potential that some nice early year cars are out there that just haven't listed yet are exactly what you are looking for. And, unless you are willing to go out of state for the car of your dreams, you will have to be even more patient.

Though buying out of state has its risks, don't let it intimidate you. I've owned 2 NSXs and bought both out of state. I did not have a PPI done on either of them because I was comfortable with the following criteria.

History Report: Clean history, zero issues.
Maintenance Records: The seller was able to email me copies of the maintenance records specifically the TB/WP, fluid flushes with date and mileage.
Pictures: Complete set of the entire interior, trunk, engine bay, front bay, wheels, exterior blemishes and anything else I was concerned about.
Seller: This is just as important as maintenance IMO. Can he answer all of your questions w/o it being a big deal? Is he a Primer and if not does a fellow primer know him that will vouch for him? If you can't get comfortable with the seller, pass.

If all of that makes me comfortable and we have agreed on a price subject to inspection in writing, I'm ready to fly out to look at it and possibly buy it on the spot. The first thing I look at when I get there are the front and rear rails for evidence of collision damage. Look under the trunk liner also as in rear end collisions the trunk floor will show the repair if it wasn't done properly. You drive the car to a reputable mechanic, preferably the one who did the maintenance to make sure the car is road worthy for a long road trip even if you plan to have it shipped. If all of this meets your expectations buy the car and if you can get the time off work, drive it home. Driving your NSX home is a special adventure. It is also a way to get acquainted with the car and you can make a list of things you will want to address like minor squeaks and rattles. My 91 NSX was close to 20 yrs old when I drove it 2600 miles and I loved every minute of the drive. My 02 was 11 yrs old on a 1600 mile drive home. Same thing, I loved every minute of the drive home. And in both cases I had a small to do list of minor items I wanted to address. But, before you take that flight, make sure you have the funds ready to purchase the car and airfare to fly back home if something sours the deal. Good luck in your continued search.

Excellent advice from a very knowledgeable owner!

I would add that it's not worth your time and money to flirt with NSX's that aren't in first class condition with solid histories.
Set out the criteria that you need to have and add to that list things that you want but don't necessarily need.
Keep looking until you find the NSX that fills your needs and if you're lucky may also fill some wants.

Put price at the bottom of your list.
When you find the right car for sale by the right owner, you'll find the price will usually end up being fair and reasonable.

The NSX community is a pretty close group and there are many owners who would help you determine if an out of state car is right for you.

You'll get nothing more than what you're prepared to accept, so make sure you're clear on what's acceptable to you and hold on until you get it.

CStricker · 27 July 2015

bleudyno said:
To be honest, there is not much available for sale here. That's why I'm checking out everything that becomes available around me. Whatever is for sale here, the seller is asking for way too much. I called a guy in Santa Monica who has a 91 with 171,000 miles and he was $47.5! Wtf!?

This guy actually has all the maintenance records and is supposed good friends with Ramon at Niguel motors. I just haven't gone to look at the car yet. As for the repaint, I'd have to do some more investigation to see if there was any damage. If everything looks okay, what's wrong with a repaint? I mean the car is 22 years old. He only converted the rear bumper so it's not a full conversion. The only thing that concerns me is the smog not passing. If I like it and we agree on a price, I'd ask to take it to a smog right away and will buy it only if the smog passes.

In California, it is the seller's responsibility to smog the car before selling it. So it actually has to pass smog...

Lostbuckeye · 27 July 2015

I would also add that Spring and Fall seem to be when the greatest number of good NSXs are listed. I'm sure why but, during my searches that was my experience as each of mine were purchased in the spring and fall. It may have something to do with winter storage in the colder climates.

bleudyno · 27 July 2015

Okay guys......I bought the car. Yea, I know you are all probably shaking your heads but I checked the car out and everything looks good. It has pretty much everything I was looking for and I know the red flags were there but after taking a thorough look, driving the car, talking to Ramon from Niguel Motors, and my mechanic, I can say that I believe I made a good buy. It was priced where I was comfortable and included a lot of things I would have spent more money on anyways. I'll take the heat for any "I told you so's" if anything happens but I am happy with the purchase and for a guy as picky as me, it works out fine. BTW, we smogged the car and it passed with no issues. The tech did a full walkthrough and inspection as well and said the car is in great condition. In any case, I'm officially part of the forum now so don't be too hard on me!

tof · 27 July 2015

Congratulations. Here's hoping everything is good with the car and wishing you many miles of happy motoring.

bleudyno · 27 July 2015

tof said:
Congratulations. Here's hoping everything is good with the car and wishing you many miles of happy motoring.

Thank you sir! The car was a joy to drive home. I'm still pinching myself that I actually have it now.

Lostbuckeye · 28 July 2015

What count's most of all is that you are happy with it. You are the best judge of what is right for you and I'm happy that you found the one. Congratulations! Pictures or it never happened is the rule around here.

bleudyno · 28 July 2015

Pics coming in a bit. My mechanic couldn't make it with me today to look at the car but I had him on the phone on what to look for. Didn't see any issues and I had a good feeling from the seller and the car and took the plunge. Just took it over to him to have him go through and take a look and he told me its in great condition. He said it was so clean looking. Yea I know it was repainted but the paint job was done really well. He had also replaced the windshield with an OEM Honda windshield. I was so relieved to hear that everything checked out okay otherwise I'd have all of you scolding me.....lol! Pictures coming soon as soon as work gets out!

nsxvtecvtec · 28 July 2015

how much you paid? also, mileage and year?

bleudyno · 28 July 2015

Since you all stuck it with me through my searching, I'll close out the thread with some pics.

Info on car:
1993 NSX 5 speed Grand Prix white on Black leather
113k miles
NSX-R Chassis bars
NSX-R Front sway bar
02 Rear Bumper
NSX-R Carbon Fiber wing
Zeal Coil overs (Corner balanced)
Prodrive Ultralite racing wheels
Taitec GT Parallel Exhaust
Fidanza Flywheel
Short shift kit with custom shift knob
CRB Removable steering wheel hub
Momo Steering wheel (OEM Steering included with sale)
New OEM windshield

nsxvtecvtec · 28 July 2015

from your picture, the gap on the right side between spoiler and quarter panel seems weird.

bleudyno · 28 July 2015

nsxvtecvtec said:
from your picture, the gap on the right side between spoiler and quarter panel seems weird.

Yea I noticed that too. Im planning on replacing it so I can deal with it for now.

nsxvtecvtec · 28 July 2015

it's not the spoiler or trunk's problem. one side obviously had a much larger gap than the other.

it's the frame damage if I am not mistaken. my previous 97 had the same problem. after we remove all the trunk mats, we realized that the frame was bent which caused the trunk is misaligned. mechanic issues can be fixed, but frame damage means ridiculous amount of money for nsx.

it's almost impossible to say no frame damage when nsx spun and hit a tree. seriously, you still buy the car when you know it. we warned you enough, but it seems you need one desperately. overall, it's just a bad purchase IMHO unless the price is very very low.

bleudyno · 28 July 2015

nsxvtecvtec said:
it's not the spoiler or trunk's problem. one side obviously had a much larger gap than the other.

it's the frame damage if I am not mistaken. my previous 97 had the same problem. after we remove all the trunk mats, we realized that the frame was bent which caused the trunk is misaligned. mechanic issues can be fixed, but frame damage means ridiculous amount of money for nsx.

it's almost impossible to say no frame damage when nsx spun and hit a tree. seriously, you still buy the car when you know it. we warned you enough, but it seems you need one desperately. overall, it's just a bad purchase IMHO unless the price is very very low.

Well your input is certainly appreciated. I took a closer look at the trunk and the right side does sit a tad higher. The receipts on the repaid specifically note that there was no frame damage. The trunk could have been pushed up a tad. The car spun out but did not hit a tree. I don't know if I said a tree early but the seller had pictures of the accident it was not even severe enough for any frame damage. Cracked tail light and scuffed up bumper. I did remove all the trunk mats to do the inspection and there was nothing bent on the frame. I know I did seem like a I was in a hurry but I honestly wouldn't have purchased it if I had any indication of frame damage. I just wanted only badly but not desperate.

CStricker · 28 July 2015

bleudyno said:
Okay so I found another one that I'm going to take a look at tomorrow morning. White on black with 113k miles. He had the whole car repainted not too long ago and when I asked why he did that, he said he spun out one night when it was raining and hit the rear into a tree. He assure no frame damage but he replace the tail lights and rear valance to the 05 one. I ran a carfax on it and I found something a little strange. For the passed 3 years, the car would fail the smog and then pass about 2 or 3 weeks later. When I brought this up to the owner he said that there was nothing wrong and that he would just pour in a bottle of engine cleaner and take it back and it would pass. Odd to me that it happened that many years in a row. Anyone have an idea what might be he problem? He does have some sort of aftermarket exhaust on there though. He also did mention that he services his car at Niguel motors. If I called them up, do you think they would be able to look up the car history and let me know the issues they've dealt with in the past?

- - - Updated - - -

Exhaust is a Taitec GT Parallel in stainless.

bleudyno said:
Well your input is certainly appreciated. I took a closer look at the trunk and the right side does sit a tad higher. The receipts on the repaid specifically note that there was no frame damage. The trunk could have been pushed up a tad. The car spun out but did not hit a tree. I don't know if I said a tree early but the seller had pictures of the accident it was not even severe enough for any frame damage. Cracked tail light and scuffed up bumper. I did remove all the trunk mats to do the inspection and there was nothing bent on the frame. I know I did seem like a I was in a hurry but I honestly wouldn't have purchased it if I had any indication of frame damage. I just wanted only badly but not desperate.

The car must've hit something to crack a tail light and scuff up the bumper.

Regardless, if you're happy, that's the only thing that matters. Congrats and welcome to the club!

M. Rackham · 28 July 2015

I do hope you got this one at a fair price. I saw the ad when he first posted it, then later after he raised the price by $4k. I'd be very wary of a car spun into a tree, no matter what type or cost.

bleudyno · 28 July 2015

M. Rackham said:
I do hope you got this one at a fair price. I saw the ad when he first posted it, then later after he raised the price by $4k. I'd be very wary of a car spun into a tree, no matter what type or cost.

He raised the price after we first talked so I was able to talk him down a little on the original price. The pictures he showed me of the accident was minor but I was wary of it so I checked all around the frame in the rear. I removed the trunk mats and side carpets and everything looks fine. I had my guy do a thorough check as well. I did a little more investigation on the gap on the right side and it is in fact the spoiler. I don't know where the owner bought it but its not a great piece. The trunk itself is aligned fine but looking closely at the spoiler and comparing measurements on each side, it is the spoiler. Going to have that changed out but for now I'll live with the gap.

Looking at a '91 Formula Red/Ivory - advise?

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