Resale on NSX

[bensoloII]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post. So here we go...I'm heavily in the market to purchase an NSX. By heavily I mean I'm religiously on this forum, auto trader, and ebay tracking the NSX market...and waiting for that gem. I have found a few possibilities, but price (as with most big purchases) is the obstacle. I'm aware that the NSX does have fantastic resale for various reasons. However, after tracking these cars for over 2 months, most have not sold for the asking price. On ebay for example, there are many listed which never meet the reserve, and then are relisted for a few dollars less, and still don't meet the reserve, and then relisted again. Those that sell are usually early models in the 20K range. In the last two months, later models like 1998- up rarely sell for the asking price (or meet the reserve), unless they are high mileage 70K and up and have some issues. On auto trader there are NSX's listed for 50K and up with high mileage which haven't moved (at least according to the website...) On NSX prime, some sellers bump their ads by dropping the price only after a few days. I hope I'm not sounding niave, but are these sellers not being realistic,especially in this below average economy? I have no problem with someone getting the most for their gem, but it seems like these prices are much higher than people are willing to pay, and thus the car just sits. I'm curious what these cars are actually selling for? My latest example would be the 2000 Red/Tan NSX in Las Vegas with only 16K miles, which has been linked on NSX Prime (seller claims mint condition, as it does appear to be). This car has been listed numerous times, with a high bid of 39K, not meeting the reserve. This particular car is for all intensive purposes a benchmark for low mileage/late model NSXs and what people are willing to pay or is it not? Of course, I'm aware that that 2002 - 2005 seem to fetch a certain premium that the pop up lights don't. But with that said, is it reasonable to expect to pick up a low mileage (less than 50K) 99 - 01 NSX for under 40K assuming the car has a clean car fax, good maitanence, etc...? I know people don't like talking about what they paid for their cars, but any guidance would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance,

Ben

 

[DocL]

It's a simple supply and demand. Right now the supply is high and many people don't have the extra cash to purchase a car. Also, getting financing on a car more than six years old is more difficult. You also hit the nail on the head when you mention that sometimes there are sellers whom think their car is worth more than it actually is on the retail marketplace.

 

[docjohn]

exactly...if you lurk on prime and read all the threads about price you will find that sellers argue why the car should be valued higher,and buyers of which there are many more posting on prime ,argue for lower....negotiation yields the sale price...

 

[bensoloII]

exactly...if you lurk on prime and read all the threads about price you will find that sellers argue why the car should be valued higher,and buyers of which there are many more posting on prime ,argue for lower....negotiation yields the sale price...

Of course negotiation is the key element, but usually when it comes to negotiating the asking price vs. the final agreed price is usually within market value (maybe 1 - 3K), and most deal within this range of course this depends on many variables, I understand that but still.... I find with the NSX asking price is 5k - 10K more than what appears to be what people are willing to pay. Perhaps, my estimates are off, but there are two recent cars I'm looking at a 1999 w/ 23500 miles asking $45K and a 2000 w/16000 where on ebay the reserve was not met with a high bid of $39K (the first two times the high bid was less without the reserve being met). Plus both cars have been listed for awhile. To me this is not representative of what people are willing to pay. Now, if people are paying this amount for such examples as the one's I just mentioned, I would really like to know....and if so...was it during this downhill economy? On top of that it's not like these cars are so rare that they can't be found. Between all the various sources, i.e. ebay, autotrader, NSX Prime, Craigslist, I have quite a few candidates.

Thanks again for the input :biggrin:

 

[shawn110975]

yeah but your missing something, these asking prices are of very low mile NSX's if you look at a higher Mile car the price drops alot. 19K-24K

and whats wrong with a High Mile NSX? nothing.

these cars were each hand build.

its not like a BMW and breaks down exactly at the 80K mark. and then again at the 90K.

some of these NSX's are pushing 250-350,000 miles and going strong.


check this link out about High Mile NSX's its called

" The NSX Buyers Guide "

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/includes/htup_0810_acura_nsx_buyers_guide/index.html

read and understand the NSX is a car UnLike any other.

my 2 cents

 

[jonas1jp]

There is one aspect where the NSX is NOT different from any other car out there; if it's too high, it won't sell. Economy or not, if you price this car right it will sell. The economy isn't as prevalent of an excuse as it is with other vehicles. A civic is economy prone. . . . . .an NSX is much less prone to such downfalls.

 

[sahtt]

An element of the NSX marketplace that may be contributing to your sense of confusion is that unlike most car owners, most NSX owners do not "need" to sell their cars. While most individuals are patient enough to wait a month or two to sell a car / motorcycle, many NSX owners will simply wait until summer; even if that's 8 months down the road. Since NSX's do not depreciate rapidly and are very cheap to maintain, especially if rarely driven, sellers tend to be more willing to "hang on to them" until the right price comes along.

Contrast that with a 50k SL AMG or M5. These cars drop in value 5k+ annually and the next generation of these cars seems to always be coming out to make the old ones look even older and less desirable.

 

[tbromley]

When you use Ebay auction as a guage what you find a lot on cars like the 2 you mention is that since the market is tough right now these cars don't meet reserve - you have a lot of low ballers out there and ebay is full of em! You gotta watch the market a while.

So - how long have you been looking? A year? ... or ...a lot less. You can't get the feel of the NSX market in quick step. You want a 99 to 2001 for less than 40 - well then imho you should look at higher mileage cars - cause the ones you mention are premo cars. Ebay will never be the best place to get big dollars for premo cars - and obviously with the cars not selling - the seller doesn't care cause most likely what he's looking for is exposure and advertising. You want one of those cars - contact the seller and start negotiations and you'll find out real quick what's happening. In other words you can't just "armchair" this thing. You want one - you like low milers and I do to - then be ready to pony up what it takes to close the deal. A low mile fully documented NA2 isn't going to be cheap. You want one that is - go higher miles and plan on putting some funds in for the maintenance that has been deffered.

My thinking is pay up front for a nice well maintained model or pay later when you have to deal with the deffered maintenance. And if you don't believe it - just watch the market a little more. I think you'll start to see the trend. I have and I've been on here about 1 1/2 years and believe me I've learned a lot.

Good luck!

 

[warrenw]

Factors the set the market price for the NSX
Supply and Demand: Acura hasn't made an NSX in 6 years. There are fewer available everyday. Supply is relatively low.
The Economy: Today people are riding themselves of toys. The NSX is in that catagory. Prices are down because of this.
Depreciation: These cars do not depreciate like most. Limited production numbers.

In the last year or 1.5 years prices have bottomed. The ulta low mileage units are still the same price they were 1.5 years ago. The high mileage units have only come down slightly.

If the economy improves, demand will increase and so may prices. That being said, this is the best time to buy a NSX. As numbers reduce and the economy only having one way to go, up, this may be the best time to buy.

 

[Jetpilot3]

I completely agree with Warren's comments. This is also why I decided to nab my 91 now instead of waiting the 1 year or so like I was originally planning. Plus this was a car with the right goodies and prior ownership...

 

[nsxtasy]

People who complain about cars being priced too high simply don't want to pay the actual market value for the car. They're called "lowballers".

Looking around on NSXprime and other sites will give you a feel for typical asking prices. Keep looking and be willing to pay close to the lower end of asking prices for what you're looking for, and you'll find one.

On NSX prime, some sellers bump their ads by dropping the price only after a few days.

Not true. NSXprime prohibits bumping a listing without waiting less than a month.

 

[bensoloII]

People who complain about cars being priced too high simply don't want to pay the actual market value for the car. They're called "lowballers".

Looking around on NSXprime and other sites will give you a feel for typical asking prices. Keep looking and be willing to pay close to the lower end of asking prices for what you're looking for, and you'll find one.


Not true. NSXprime prohibits bumping a listing without waiting less than a month.

I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, I don't know what I wrote that would indicate that. This is a forum for perspective buyers. So I'm reaching out...I'm simply trying to get a pulse on the market and that's why I've provided examples to clarify my concern. Nobody wants to be bent over and ripped off. You mention market value, I'm willing to pay that if I knew what it was, do you have an idea? because nothing I found thus far shows any indication of current market value (see my initial posts). I wouldn't have considered buying one if I wasn't prepared to pay. What is the "low end" of the asking price mean? Are NSX resale values immune to a troubled economy, where for the most part everything has been negatively effected? I would argue that a reason for why there's currently a large supply is because people are prioritizing their lifestyle and selling their toys, perhaps willing to part with them for less than what they would have sold for during the good times whether it's NSX, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.. in fact, I unloaded my garage queen a year ago for this exact reason, it's unfortunate, but a reality.

 

[bensoloII]

When you use Ebay auction as a guage what you find a lot on cars like the 2 you mention is that since the market is tough right now these cars don't meet reserve - you have a lot of low ballers out there and ebay is full of em! You gotta watch the market a while.

So - how long have you been looking? A year? ... or ...a lot less. You can't get the feel of the NSX market in quick step. You want a 99 to 2001 for less than 40 - well then imho you should look at higher mileage cars - cause the ones you mention are premo cars. Ebay will never be the best place to get big dollars for premo cars - and obviously with the cars not selling - the seller doesn't care cause most likely what he's looking for is exposure and advertising. You want one of those cars - contact the seller and start negotiations and you'll find out real quick what's happening. In other words you can't just "armchair" this thing. You want one - you like low milers and I do to - then be ready to pony up what it takes to close the deal. A low mile fully documented NA2 isn't going to be cheap. You want one that is - go higher miles and plan on putting some funds in for the maintenance that has been deffered.

My thinking is pay up front for a nice well maintained model or pay later when you have to deal with the deffered maintenance. And if you don't believe it - just watch the market a little more. I think you'll start to see the trend. I have and I've been on here about 1 1/2 years and believe me I've learned a lot.

Good luck!

Thanks Tim, I have considered going for a higher mileage NSX, saving a few bucks and putting that money aside for maintenance/repair costs. Regardless of how "maintenance free" the NSX is, I still cringe at buying a car with 70+ thousand miles that's pushing 20 years and still paying a pretty premium, but I realize that's the market I'm in :biggrin: and so be it. I know these cars go well over 100K miles, with basic maintenance..more so than not, but then again there are those that also don't...

 

[VegasSpeed]

Just have some solid NSX mechanic look the car over. My car has 119k miles but it drives great, the engine has good compression and it is very solid. It would be nice to have those lower miles but at the same time I want to drive my car not let it sit in the garage holding its value. Don't you?

 

[docjohn]

I know its two years old but we have some epic posts over the last 2 years about the used nsx market just type in the search tab actual sale price and have fun..by the time you are finished reading the "mythical 25k nsx the prices will have dropped into your comfort zone:wink: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95239&highlight=actual+sale+price

 

[peiserg]

I looked for 2 yrs before I jumped in so had a pretty good idea of what to expect. It takes a while to really get it down..or have someone who's doing the same thing screen out your potentials for you.

Im going to list mine after nsxpo... 70k miles and only serviced by science of speed and mark basch. Only big issue I see is mark Basch went out of business and took all my. Maintenance records with him! 6 years worth! D'oh!. This despite having all maintenance items performed religiously. Ah well life goes on...

Aside from that, im also one of those guys who now has just too many toys but doesn't really need to sell. So ill be fine waiting for a realistic counteroffer when I list vs a lowballer.

 

[docjohn]

I looked for 2 yrs before I jumped in so had a pretty good idea of what to expect. It takes a while to really get it down..or have someone who's doing the same thing screen out your potentials for you.

Im going to list mine after nsxpo... 70k miles and only serviced by science of speed and mark basch. Only big issue I see is mark Basch went out of business and took all my. Maintenance records with him! 6 years worth! D'oh!. This despite having all maintenance items performed religiously. Ah well life goes on...

Aside from that, im also one of those guys who now has just too many toys but doesn't really need to sell. So ill be fine waiting for a realistic counteroffer when I list vs a lowballer.

wow,about Mark...do you what his plans are....pm me if you'd like..

 

[nsxtasy]

What I meant was, if you can find 10-20 listings for a car with given attributes - year, mileage, condition, etc - then in general, you can get a general idea of what to expect to pay. I usually assume the top 20 percent of the prices represent "wishful thinking", and the rest should be reasonable asking prices. You can usually negotiate downward from the asking price by anywhere from $500 to $3000 as a "negotiating factor" and still close the deal.

If you can't find 10-20 listings, then your search criteria are too restrictive to use this method - such as if you are looking for a Zanardi with low miles, or a particular color. Very-low-mileage cars fall into this category. Median mileage on NSXs is about 5K miles per year, so a '99-01 with 50K is about average and shouldn't be too hard to find. I would encourage you to include '97-98 in that search as there is no difference between those and the '99-01.

 

[nsxtasy]

For example, right now there are 14 used 1997-2001 NSXs on Autotrader with less than 60K miles. Prices:

$55,600
$48,500
$47,900
$47,675
$47,500
$45,500
$45,000
$44,999
$44,900
$44,500
$43,500
$42,950
$41,900
$34,000

Can you buy one of those cars for under $40K? Yes, the one asking $34K. And you can probably buy at least one of the three cars in the $41-44K range for $40K too. Will they be in pristine condition? Will they have a clean Carfax an no accidents? Will they have had the timing belt replaced and all other maintenance up to date as well? Maybe, maybe not - and those things may be worth paying more for. I would be willing to bet that at least half of those 14 cars have never had the timing belt replaced, even though it should have been done at least once already, and that alone is going to cost you $1500, give or take. (So you might not be able to get one that has had the timing belt replaced for under $40K.) Ask all the other questions about maintenance and history. Look through the listings there and here on NSXprime. You'll get a feel for the difference between a car that is really well maintained and one that isn't. Don't get distracted by aftermarket modifications unless you are looking for specific ones. Good luck.

 

[FattyPuglet]

yeah but your missing something, these asking prices are of very low mile NSX's if you look at a higher Mile car the price drops alot. 19K-24K

and whats wrong with a High Mile NSX? nothing.

these cars were each hand build.

its not like a BMW and breaks down exactly at the 80K mark. and then again at the 90K.

some of these NSX's are pushing 250-350,000 miles and going strong.


check this link out about High Mile NSX's its called

" The NSX Buyers Guide "

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/includes/htup_0810_acura_nsx_buyers_guide/index.html

read and understand the NSX is a car UnLike any other.

my 2 cents

Really good point

 

[bensoloII]

For example, right now there are 14 used 1997-2001 NSXs on Autotrader with less than 60K miles. Prices:

$55,600
$48,500
$47,900
$47,675
$47,500
$45,500
$45,000
$44,999
$44,900
$44,500
$43,500
$42,950
$41,900
$34,000

Can you buy one of those cars for under $40K? Yes, the one asking $34K. And you can probably buy at least one of the three cars in the $41-44K range for $40K too. Will they be in pristine condition? Will they have a clean Carfax an no accidents? Will they have had the timing belt replaced and all other maintenance up to date as well? Maybe, maybe not - and those things may be worth paying more for. I would be willing to bet that at least half of those 14 cars have never had the timing belt replaced, even though it should have been done at least once already, and that alone is going to cost you $1500, give or take. (So you might not be able to get one that has had the timing belt replaced for under $40K.) Ask all the other questions about maintenance and history. Look through the listings there and here on NSXprime. You'll get a feel for the difference between a car that is really well maintained and one that isn't. Don't get distracted by aftermarket modifications unless you are looking for specific ones. Good luck.

thanks for the run down..I've viewed many of these. I've opened up the search countrywide. I know shipping is an additional cost, but I've accounted for that. I'm not in any rush, I just want something with piece of mind which is one of the strong points of the NSX. I'm enjoying the search...and any help along the way is much appreciated.

 

[tbromley]

Thanks Tim, I have considered going for a higher mileage NSX, saving a few bucks and putting that money aside for maintenance/repair costs. Regardless of how "maintenance free" the NSX is, I still cringe at buying a car with 70+ thousand miles that's pushing 20 years and still paying a pretty premium, but I realize that's the market I'm in :biggrin: and so be it. I know these cars go well over 100K miles, with basic maintenance..more so than not, but then again there are those that also don't...

What cars "also don't" - not Honda! All the NSXs will go not over 100k - but over 200k and beyond! NO DOUBT! You see BensoloII, this is no usual car - no regular production sports car - like a 911 - even so 911s will go a long way - like the 3.2 911 will surely. Unlike the 911 you won't have to do a top end after 125k!

You see you need to do some serious reading about these cars - there is a great book about the development you need to read. This car, the NSX, is a once in a lifetime production sports car to prove something to the world by Japan - it is not your regular Honda Civic SI- although that Civic SI will go a lonnnnnnng way too. All Honda products are very good - it's just that the NSX is great - not just good. It would have cost a lot more if the new car owner would have paid what it really cost to produce. Japan should have done much more advertising - they just missed the boat. Be that as it may - this car was built with an aluminum body, subframe/monocoque, suspension, and engine - it's a marvel of technology for the day - Honda reportedly lost money on every one - it was a tribute to them that they kept it going as long as they did considering their losses on the car - but they made a HUGE statement and we lucky few are the recipients of that - we get to own one. Those of us that have been sports car nuts for a long time and finally landed in NSX land - well it's kind of like when "Dorothy went from black and white to full color in OZ - you dig?

Some say under normal circumstances the NSX should never have been - couldn't rationalize it - it was the pennacle of Honda's move to get into the "exotic" car market at the time. Sure they went on to do marvelous things with their F1 engines and LMP2 or was it LMP1 Acura racing division's entry. They really were moving into a new realm and the NSX was the flagship of that effort on the regular sports car production front. When you really look at how it came about it is absolutely unbelievable that Japan did it and did it the way they did in 91 - an almost hand built car in that day. In a day when not but the very few top end exotics were doing that. Porsche had stopped. Like I say when you buy and drive an NSX you will become a "true believer"!

Sure it has its limitations - yeah it needs to have been developed and improved with more power to keep up but it wasn't just your usual production car. They really couldn't afford to make any more than they did - the interior was upgraded in the NA2 and the engine got bigger - yeah they made the R and the S and the Zanardi - awesome stuff but they never really got the power up - but if they had they would have had to go back to the drawing board and completely set up the suspension and frame to take it - too expensive - that's my guess and I'm pretty sure about that. They just couldn't afford to go any further without raising the price to 125K. That's what it would have taken and it would have been great and some would say cheap at that. The Japanese just don't do anything like this half ass.

Unlike Porsche that had troubles - major troubles with it's 996 and 997 with the IMS and RMS issues which have just now been solved - the IMS solution came aftermarket!!! Can you imagine the Japanese putting out cars that could have 10% with catastrophic engine failures and think that was ok? Unbelievable. So that's what your dealing with here - a magic moment in the anals of sports car production. You'll see.

So go higher end - look for the right owner - right records and you'll get the best - not one with higher miles and a big list - but higher miles with all records are great - GREAT - cars too. It's all about the upkeep and prior ownership history! Stay with that and you can't go wrong!

 

[jaybird]

Agree with Tim - for me, it was all about the "upkeep and ownership history". I was willing to pay up a bit for a two-owner car, with relatively low mileage (52k on a 91), and complete documentation from day one.

As Warren said, there is a limited supply of these, and the good ones are only getting fewer and far between. My advice, if you find one that remotely fills your needs, then I would grab it, even if it is a bit more $$ than you think you can get one for.

Having owned 50 or so cars in my past, I can honestly say that knowing what I know now about the NSX, I can't believe we can even buy these great automobiles for what folks are currently asking. It is a GREAT automobile.

Geeez, I just may have to buy another one for the fleet....! Best wishes on your search. Jay

 

[shawn110975]

I still cringe at buying a car with 70+ thousand miles


when I got my 1992 NSX it had 115,000 miles and it runs like it did when it was new. and I paid 21K cash and Mint

when you say you cringe at a car your using your NORMAL CAR GUT feeling.
like BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, and ALL American cars break down and are worth Piss compared.
the NSX is different. so your normal thinking is wrong.

 

[bensoloII]

I still cringe at buying a car with 70+ thousand miles


when I got my 1992 NSX it had 115,000 miles and it runs like it did when it was new. and I paid 21K cash and Mint

when you say you cringe at a car your using your NORMAL CAR GUT feeling.
like BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, and ALL American cars break down and are worth Piss compared.
the NSX is different. so your normal thinking is wrong.

Let's be realistic here...no car is bullet proof especially one that is 15 - 20 years old, and has 70K miles. This is what is meant by cringe. I do respect Honda's reliability, but there are issues that creep up when buying such a car regardless of the manufacturer and yes some more than others. I can tell you that I've seen hundreds of BMWs with high mileage, and that goes for Ford, Chevy and Dodge as well. I owned a 2000 Dodge Viper for 4 years, autocrossed it frequently and NEVER had a single problem in that time and I drove the car. So when you say ALL, I must question that. I don't think I need to explain that. You are missing the point...components wear and eventually fail over time...To imply the NSX is immune from potential wear and tear is silly...Unless, your the original owner, nobody will know just how prone to repair costs a car that's 15 - 20 years old with 70K+ miles is going to be. That's why people recommend budgeting for potential repair costs on top of the cost of the car, when buying a higher mileage/older car...